Something I was thinking about, directed at FightingIrish and kmnyc:
You say that AAS enable a fighter to train harder, longer, and more effectively, in essence making him a more “dangerous” fighter. How about Mayweather’s reputed lidocaine injections?
Now, whether or not he actually uses them, how would that not cross the line? Here we have a man with brittle hands who cannot train without pain. If he were to use the lidocaine, he would be able to train longer, harder and more effectively–similar to the reputed effects of AAS–but since it is not a testosterone/synthetic hormone it would be allowed under your criteria.
To me it seems too difficult to draw the line where PED’s begin and where “normal” supplements end
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
Something I was thinking about, directed at FightingIrish and kmnyc:
You say that AAS enable a fighter to train harder, longer, and more effectively, in essence making him a more “dangerous” fighter. How about Mayweather’s reputed lidocaine injections?
Now, whether or not he actually uses them, how would that not cross the line? Here we have a man with brittle hands who cannot train without pain. If he were to use the lidocaine, he would be able to train longer, harder and more effectively–similar to the reputed effects of AAS–but since it is not a testosterone/synthetic hormone it would be allowed under your criteria.
To me it seems too difficult to draw the line where PED’s begin and where “normal” supplements end
[/quote]
You’ll still grow tired with or without lidocaine and it wont increase your recovery time, it’ll only temporarily numb your hand or hands. It’d only really be worthwhile to use it in a fight anyway, which is illegal.
I imagine using anything like lidocaine would be illegal.
and then it would be cheating.
Its not my ‘criteria’ Its plain out and out against the rules.
Olypic Committee, and many athletic commisions have the some of the strictest lists of banned substances, or practices,If its on that list, its unethical, and yes cheating.
these kind of guidelines are very clear about things like cortisone, saline and other kinds of pain/inflamation injections and treatments.
There are very few ‘dietary supplements’ that require the use of a needle, that are legal to use relative to the conversation.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
Something I was thinking about, directed at FightingIrish and kmnyc:
You say that AAS enable a fighter to train harder, longer, and more effectively, in essence making him a more “dangerous” fighter. How about Mayweather’s reputed lidocaine injections?
Now, whether or not he actually uses them, how would that not cross the line? Here we have a man with brittle hands who cannot train without pain. If he were to use the lidocaine, he would be able to train longer, harder and more effectively–similar to the reputed effects of AAS–but since it is not a testosterone/synthetic hormone it would be allowed under your criteria.
To me it seems too difficult to draw the line where PED’s begin and where “normal” supplements end
[/quote]
You’ll still grow tired with or without lidocaine and it wont increase your recovery time, it’ll only temporarily numb your hand or hands. It’d only really be worthwhile to use it in a fight anyway, which is illegal.
[/quote]
Right. Steroids are a game changer in fight prep, no doubt about it.
[quote]Proud_Virgin wrote:
The argument, as I understood it, is steroids let you train longer and harder.
If you can’t train because of brittle/painful hands, lidocaine would let you train longer and harder.
See where I’m going with this?
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He’d still train for a fight unless his hand was already injured, but once it healed it wouldn’t be too difficult. There are no negotiations for what gloves you may use during training, you don’t have to use regulation wraps during training, and you’re really only hitting padded objects during training.
He’d train with or without the substance, the substance doesn’t allow him to train longer or increase his recovery.
I can totally see Fightin’s point about steroids in a combat situation. I would agree that it does create a dangerous situation. I have gone back and forth with the whole steroids issue in pro sports for a while now. Being a baseball fan, I have grown tired of people complaining that guys who used steroids should not be in the HOF.
However, most of the guys at the center of the controversy were HOF bound guys before they were accused of using. At the same time, they were gaining an advantage though. However, guys were using amphetimines and other stuff as far back as the 60s, so where do you draw the line?
The NFL is another dangerous situation as far as steroids are concerned. The players have gotten bigger, faster, and stronger and the collisions have gotten more violent. There is a rise in concussions as well. The NFL has become a meat grinder league where athletes’ bodies are chewed up and spit out in a few years. Most RBs aren’t productive after the age of 28.
On a side note, I was reading an article in Muscular Development last year and the column was about good drugs for PLing. The author described Cheque drops and said they have made their way into MMA (he didn’t say which level but I assume he is not talking some small promotions).
He said basically a few drops under the tongue before a fight will send a figher into a frothing rage. Sound familiar to anyone? Also, orals such as Dbol and Anavar can clear out of one’s system quickly allowing for drug tests to be passed.
Also, the poster that said strength isn’t relevant in MMA is kidding themself. Granted, a 600lb bench won’t make you a great fighter (see Tank Abbott), but all other things being equal, the stronger man WILL have an advantage. Strength gives you a greater margin of error for things such as powering out of submissions and such.
hmmmm i think most fighters would want to be calm before a fight. Charles Poliquin said tennis players are users you just don’t notice it because they use low doses and don’t look the part.
[quote]drewh wrote:
hmmmm i think most fighters would want to be calm before a fight. Charles Poliquin said tennis players are users you just don’t notice it because they use low doses and don’t look the part. [/quote]
Different people have different temperments/pre-fight rituals that they feel work for them. Some guys like Anderson Silva are cool, calm, and relaxed. I have a friend who, when he used to wrestle, used to like to listen to the sounds of ocean waves to calm and relax himself.
Then you have guys on the other end of the spectrum who like to listen to thrash metal, and psych themselves up as much as possible before their fights.
Obviously taking something that would make you so amped up that you were foaming at the mouth would be a bad idea for the first group. But it might work for the second group.
Don’t really have any experience with people using that substance though, so that’s just speculation.
[quote]drewh wrote:
hmmmm i think most fighters would want to be calm before a fight. Charles Poliquin said tennis players are users you just don’t notice it because they use low doses and don’t look the part. [/quote]
If they actually tested more than half of the top 100 would be gone. Its a dirty sport right now. Might even challenge track and field for how bad it is.
so a skinny guy juices alot and gains 50 pounds of muscle. So what? He’s just going to go up a few weight divisions and fight other big guys. I think roids should be allowed if for no other reason than to keep certain people from getting busted while others get away with it arbitrarily. I also think combat sports need them most for recovery purposes.
What are you going to say to some middle aged guy that wants to compete but can’t because he can’t keep up with the younger guys? That he should have thought about that before he decided to be old? Take age and genetics out of the equation and let em all juice.
[quote]koleg wrote:
Some of you guys are real jokes…I’m talking about the pro-steroid guys here.
Some of you use steroids. You’re injecting shit in your body, for whatever reason.
To me, It just means that you use the easy way, that you are cowards. You can argue as long as you want, steroid in ANY sport is cheating.
You can’t compete in powerlifting with other steroids freaks? Well, get over it, and be a man, don’t take steroids for the sake of being equal with them. Of course you could lift more, being juiced… you could lift more being geared too… And you know what? You could EVEN lift MORE using a CATERPILLAR Truck if it’s what you want! Isn’t it AWESOME???..
Just compete drug free and be proud of what you can achieve.
Some of you losed their mind because they use steroids, and because all of their training buddies use steroids too. You all crossed the line of cheating, and you try to argue with drug free people trying to prove them it’s not wrong, because it removes some of your cheater culpability.
Now here are some pictures of MMA (juicing) star: Alistair Overeem.
Tell me it’s not cheating, and I’m gonna fuck myself.
Now you can start criticizing my english, to destabilize my credibility, and to avoid talking about the fact that you are cheaters… That’s what they do usually, I eventually get used to it.
XoXo[/quote]
OK - so maybe he juices and maybe he doesn’t? His growth from his LHW days in Pride really isn’t THAT dramatic that it directly leads to 'roid usage - I’m not going to post the stats now, but his rate never really exceeded 1 lbm/week, except maybe the time between the Goodridge fight in 11/08 & the Hari fight on NYE 12/08 (?). Either way, with a large frame, hard work and newbie gains for someone who apparently never lifted before due to weight cutting for LHW in Pride, I wouldn’t say his gains are all unnatural. I agree that his puffy face is a bit of a hint that he is on more than just ‘horse meat’ but who am I to know? I don’t follow him 24/7.
…Or maybe it’s just that he’s been consuming people at a massive rate and will achieve his Perfect-reem form after consuming Fedor later this year?
