Help Reaching 500lb Chinup?

Hey Coach T, hope you are doing well during this busy time of the year! I wanted to get your wisdom on increasing weighted chinups to a high-level while being 1B dominant with 1A very close second.
109 / 128 / 52 / 52 / 43

My goal is to reach 500lbs total and my best is 215lbs at 250lbs bodyweight (I only mention this to convey experience level). A lot of my training has been inspired by your works and Chick Sipes. For a while, I have hit a wall however. It’s a super draining lift, and methods such as Clusters and Waves feel too intense. Tonnage feels more right, but the volume takes a toll on connective tissue. These methods all work amazing for bench, squats, and rdls, but I suspect that’s because they are not deadstop…

Based on the literature I’ve read of yours (tons, big fan) I was thinking of treating the chin like a deadlift. Do you think for a 1B this would be a decent approach? (sampling from some of your old OHP articles, Strength Skill, and neurotyping rubric)

Day 1:
Weighted Chinup Ramp 3
Speed reps, stop once reps slow down. No grinding
A. Lat Prayer
B. Bicep Curls
A. Hanging Leg Raise
B. Rear Delt Fly

Day 4
Weighted Chinup Xx3 Rest: 60s
Maybe use load from Day 1, train Russian Bear style so the workout can be open ended and “won” through sets instead of load
A. Biceps
B. Rear Delts

I would ideally like to toss in some heavy deadhangs to build up connective tissue and tell my golgi tendon to take a hike, but not sure if that would be overkill… If it is possible, any suggestions where it would best fit? I did not want to be that guy that asks for a whole program, so I wanted to do some leg work and not waste too much of your time. Any input at all, I am all ears!

For clarification, are you saying you want 500lbs total, as in your body weight and external weight combined?

How are you holding this weight? I’m puzzled on what that looks like.

1 Like

Yeah for real, if a 100lb person does a pullup with 400lb added weight, or a 400lb person does a pullup with 100lb added weight, either way that’s an absolutely amazing lift! And if I read correctly that at 250lb you did a pullup with an extra 215lb, that is absolutely amazing.

I did a 90lb weighted pullup. I’m still so proud of that. Tendons and tissues be fragile though.

3 Likes

Total weight, although I’d never say no to having 500lbs around my waist haha Just got a weight belt and an old collarless spin sleeve dumbbell with a bunch of 25s on it :slight_smile:

Btw, clever username, love it

2 Likes

100lb person with 500lb total would actually be incredible. Someone get on that haha

I have videos of the lifts on my insta highlight section for visuals… Not to derail
Vald_Viking

90lbs is no joke! Much to celebrate :slight_smile: Those inner elbows am I right?

2 Likes

That is a very cool and impressive goal.

I can’t really provide you with a whole program, as designing and selling programs is a big part of how I make my living.

But I’ll make a few recommendations:

  1. At your level of strength on the chin-up you may very well have to use a specialization approach to keep progressing. A specialization approach means that your training is focused on binging up one lift (or 1-2 body parts). That lift is trained more frequently (I like 3x a week) and the assistance work for that lift is also increased (more weekly volume). Specialization is especially effective for strength as the higher frequency allows for better neuromuscular improvements, which, especially on a chin-up, is super important.

  2. “When you put something in, you must take something out”. As for specialization work, people understand (and, often, like) having to add frequency and volume for the spec lift/assistance work. But they normally don’t apply the second half of the equation: reducing the amount of work for “other stuff”. The overall weekly volume of your spec plan should not be higher than your normal volume. Especially if strength is your goal. Increasing overall volume will drain your nervous system more and make it hard to perform optimally on your chin-up workouts. You should train everything except the chin-up and the key muscles involved: back, biceps, rear delts, grip) at maintenance volume; that’s around 1/3rd if your normal volume for everything except chin-ups and it’s related work. Heck, when Chris Duffin was training to be able to squat 1000lbs x 2 reps ALL he did was his squat workout. He didn’t train any other lift during his whole “prep” to preserve as much neuromuscular capacity as possible.

  3. At your level, I like an Omni-Contraction approach for the chin-up. That means focusing on all three types of contractions, each on its own day. For example:

  • Monday: Chin-up work with eccentric focus (more on the methods later)

  • Wednesday: Chin-up work with stato-dynamic or isometric focus

  • Friday: Chin-up work with concentric focus (normal work)

  • The eccentric-focus day will help develop tendons and connective tissue resiliency. The stato-dynamic and isometric work will improve joint stability and allow you to focus on the weak link in the chain.

  1. The maintenance work for the “rest of the body” can either be done on a fourth workout (ideally Saturday) or you can keep 3 weekly workouts and do a small amount of maintenance work at the end of each workout.

I would periodize the different days this way:

Block 1 (weeks 1-4)
Eccentric focus day: Slow eccentric, normal concentric. I would lengthen the duration of the eccentric phase from week to week, while attempting to at least keep using the same weight (if you can add weight, it’s a bonus). For example:

Week 1: 3-4 work sets of 3 reps with a true 4-seconds eccentric
Week 2: 3-4 work sets of 3 reps with a true 6-seconds eccentric
Week 3: 3-4 work sets of 3 reps with a true 8-seconds eccentric
Week 4: 1-2 work sets of 1-2 reps with a true 10-seconds eccentric

Stato-dynamic/isometric focus day: You include holds during each repetitions. You progress by doing the holds in more difficult positions while trying t keep using the same weight (if you can add weight, it’s a bonus)

Week 1: 3-4 work sets of 3 reps with three 2-seconds holds on each reps, during the eccentric (top, mid-range, close to bottom but not fully extended)

Week 2: 3-4 work sets of 3 reps with three 2-seconds holds on each rep; 2 during the eccentric phase (top, mid-range) and 1 during the concentric (mid-range)

Week 3: 3-4 work sets of 3 reps with three 2-seconds holds on each rep; 1 during the eccentric (mid-range) and 2 during the concentric (near the bottom but not fully extended, mid-range)

Week 4: 1-2 work sets of 3 reps with three 2-seconds holds on each rep; all 3 holds are during the concentric (bottom, mid, top)

Concentric focus day: in this first phase instead of doing a normal chin-up/pull-up you will do sternum chins. Meaning that instead of pulling until the bar is at your neck/shoulders, you pull until the bar is at your nipples/low chest.

Week 1: Work up to a 5RM then do 2 sets of 5 reps with 90% of that 5RM
Week 2: Work up to a 4RM then do 2 sets of 4 reps with 90% of that 4RM
Week 3: Work up to a 3RM then do 2 sets of 3 reps with 90% of that 3RM
Week 4: Work up to a 2RM

Block 2 (weeks 5-8)

Eccentric-focus day: Here I would start each set with ONE very slow eccentric (10 seconds) then immediately do 2 reps with a normal tempo, and finish your set by doing one last rep with the slowest eccentric that you can still do at that point. Progression will be done via volume. If you can add weight, it’s a bonus (but not mandatory):

Week 5: 2 work sets as explained above
Week 6: 3 work sets
Week 7: 4 work sets
Week 8: 1 work set

Stato-dynamic/isometric day: Same principle as during the first block, but now we only use ONE hold per rep. Do the hold around your weak point in the chin-up. Progress by adding volume. If you can add weight, it’s a bonus.

Week 5: 3 x 3
Week 6: 4 x 3
Week 7: 5 x 3
Week 8: 2 x 3

Concentric focus day: in this phase, you don’t want to push the weight or volume too much. See it as a phase to work on technical efficiency and retaining the feeling or heavy loading.

Week 5: 6 x 3 @ 75-80% (of the total weight, body weight + added load)
Week 6: 8 x 2 @ 80-85%
Week 7: 10 x 1 @ 85-90%
Week 8: 3 x 1 @ 90-92.5%

Block 3 (weeks 9-12)

Eccentric-focus day: This is an overload block. Perform heavy negatives (only perform the eccentric part).

Week 9: Use around 100-105% and perform 1 negative rep as slowly as humanly possible. Perform 3 x 1

Week 10: Use around 105-107.5% and perform 1 negative rep as slowly as possible. Perform 3 x 1

Week 11: Use 107.5-110%. Perform 3 x 1

Week 12: Use 110-112.5%. Perform 2 x 1

Stato-dynamic focus day: Here you will do partial reps from a paused position: start in the finished position, lower yourself until the elbows are around 90 degrees, pause for 2 seconds and pull yourself up.

Week 9: 3 x 5
Week 10: 3 x 3 (more weight)
Week 11: 3 x 2 (more weight)
Week 12: 3 x 1 (more weight)

Concentric-focus day

Week 9: Work up to a solid 3RM
Week 10: Work up to a solid 2RM
Week 11: Perform 3 x 2 with 90% of what you reached on week 10
Week 12: Work up to a 1RM

6 Likes

WOW is an understatement, but it’s all I have. Can’t thank you enough for the time and knowledge you have given here.

  1. I think you hit the nail on the head here. The past few cycles, believe it or not, I have overworked pressing muscles (lower pecs and long head tris) by doing heavy benching near a chinning workout. I guess if it can strain them, they will be preserved while specializing?

  2. Very good point, certainly guilty of not making room on my plate. I’ll drop lower body lifts down to 1 good set and switch RDLs to goodmornings / hypers. Pretty sure a couple sets of high incline will preserve pressing power well enough :slight_smile:

  3. Man, I love the look of this approach. Have read over multiple times and added the layout to my sheets. Really want to do it justice. I like the eccentric work a lot. I have done (overdone) bastardized versions of them in the past and they really made me feel “solid” Also I love the sternum pullup idea

Once again, many thanks Coach T. Honored to have been responded to and will certainly put this gemstone to good use. Merry Christmas and many blessings ahead

2 Likes

This is about where I am. However, with chin ups, I am not sure what is impressive. By that, I mean a male beginner can often do a few chin ups with body weight. If the can do that (they are sorta fit, not really obese), they can usually do a bench with around body weight on the bar. My thoughts are that if starting out, strength on two different lifts is about equal, that with equal training, we should see the lifts progress in a similar fashion.

We see a lot more big benches than equivalent weight chin ups though. My thoughts are the bench is trained a lot more, and in a way that makes more sense if the goal is a heavy 1 RM. I’ve seen a handful of guys (myself included) do around a 400 lb bench at around 200 lbs. I’ve only seen one dude (who is also in the around double BW bench club) do chins with about 400 lbs total. I see this guy train chins as seriously as he does bench press. I am thinking that for the rest of the group of good bench pressers that if we dedicated the same training to chins as we did to bench, that we would probably all be capable of around 400 lbs total.

BTW, not taking anything away from OP. A 500 lb total chin up is crazy, the chin he can already do is impressive. All I am saying is that I think lifters are under-performing on chin ups.

4 Likes

Interesting comparison. I don’t think many people compare those, which isn’t to say they shouldn’t.

I’ve never maxed a weighted chin but could/can bang out a decent number with 45 on the waist and had a near 400lb bench. I assume my best weighted chin would’ve been in the 65-90 range with a bodyweight of 260ish. Can’t imagine adding 150 more to that top-end, would be seriously impressive.

I should really start lifting again, thanks for the inspiration @Valdy

2 Likes

Well, you asked something that I rarely get asked about so it’s always more fun to answer than something I’m seeing every week.

2 Likes

The limited program you did publish still shows the difference between someone with years of experience who has trained many people and some Internet influencer who looks shiny. Impressive. Maybe I should try adding more weight to my chins as a 2024 thing.

I’ve never tried to add much weight to chins, instead increasing volume. But I did try to increase weight added to dips. By this thread’s standards I got to around 400 pounds. I never tried to aggressively or systematically increase that though.

I’m curious what someone who can chin almost 500 pounds can dip. Or if increasing weighted dips might play any role in increasing weighted chins since both presumably stress the joints and soft tissue, even if chins are harder.

1 Like

Your observation is mind blowing, in a good way :slight_smile: It is true for myself and so I began asking others that also take both lifts seriously and your theory has lined up closely each time. Even at high levels like Andrey Smaev, this checks out. Again, incredible reasoning

2 Likes

If it helps, my dip is much stronger and I never found carryover unfortunately. However, doing a month stint of chinups only mixed with tricep pushdowns, lead to an easy bench press pr comparable to what the chinning weight was. Curious others experience

The lats/upper back are key parts of the bench press. First, for stabilization purposes; and the more stable the body is, the more it can use it’s strength potential. But also because the lats are involved in getting the bar off the chest, so it helps getting a strong start of the chest. The lats are are use to slow the weight down during the eccentric, reducing fatigue of the pressing muscle. More lats = easier eccentric phase —) less fatigue in the prime movers prior to pressing the weight up.

2 Likes

Wanted to tell you, the 3 part isometric holds and tempo reps were humbling! Felt all the weak links in the chain, especially the abs, lots of shaking. Could hardly situp the next day and had soreness in the biceps and lats I’d never felt before. Clearing up some aches I had as well. Many thanks Coach Thibaudeau

1 Like

Good to hear. Yeah, pausing mid-lift will certainly reveal (and thus help fix) weaknesses. Speed/momentum often allows us to bypass our weak links, until we reach maximal weights.

I do find that slow eccentrics and pauses during a lift are what cleans up technique and fixes weak links (and protect against injuries) the best.

2 Likes

I’m unclear what the best way is to physically strap an extra 250-400 pounds onto your body for doing a crazy-weighted dip or chin. It’s a cool goal, though. I think I’m going to try it, but doubt I will reach your heights, even if the joints hold up.

(I can see an 80lb vest. More than 135 lbs. on the belt you have to be careful with the short and curlies? Two belts?)

3 Likes

This is a great, great question. A friend recently proposed a 315lb (BW+weight) pullup, and while I was daunted by the thought of adding 50lb to my lifetime best, I never thought about the challenge of the extra plate.
two 45s, the type that aren’t a solid disc but rather have “handles” around the edge, fit nicely between the knees. Three would be challenging but doable.
You have to run the chain through the “handle” rather than the center hole.
My gym also has some 100lb steel plates that nobody ever touches, likely much more dense geometry and thus suitable to belting.
Personally I wouldn’t want a vest as the top would get pinched between my neck and shoulders.

While I’m on this thread I’m going to brag on my wife for a second. She’s a mother of 4, mid-30s, amazing shape - and hadn’t done a pullup in probably a year. We walk to a playground in our neighborhood and - boom - she does a pullup. That got her so excited, the next time she did a bunch of singles. Now she’s chasing pullup goals and loving the soreness. Got some gloves to save her hands. It’s cool to see her get the bug!

4 Likes