So I was thinking about how I am going to start training for the one arm chin up next year, I thought to myself about how back in the day when I had gym we would have a physical test. Of course it consisted of pushups, sit-ups, and running. One thing we didn?t have was a pull-up test, instead we had a test of who could hold themselves up at the top of the bar in chin up style for the longest time (I of course got second best with a score of like a 1.20), anyway back to the story, after I got off my arms felt so pumped… I mean it was like I did 100 pullups/chins ups then finished it off with some standing bicep curls. like that
Well now I train with an extra 50lbs when I do pull-ups/chin up, I can do about 5 reps with good form, Anyway I was thinking about trying something else. I remember back to when I first started training I couldn?t do a real good pull-up, so some person said that if I would hang and hold myself at the top of the bar that it would help me be able to do a pullup, sure enough in no time I was doing the pull-ups/chins. I started adding weight when I could do 20 reps.
One day I tried to do a pull-up with 90lbs hanging on me, well I got up half the way then the belt broke, I got it fixed. But it was really hard getting up, it sort of felt like the first time I tried doing pull-ups.
Then I thought what would happen if I took 90-100lbs and did a static hold at the top, wouldn?t the same thing happen as it did when I was little. Then maybe when I could hold myself for 2 minuets I could start doing negatives or reps?I think this might actually be better than just adding weight to my pull-ups every time I got to a point were I needed more weight.
I think, 4 x max holds would be sufficient 2-3 times a week with the occasional max pull-up or chin so I wouldn?t lose the feel of them. I think that this may actually be a better strength builder than adding weight over time. Of course once I am able to reps with 100lbs I will start adding more weight.
Also I bet it will add to my one arm chin training…indeed
Well I’m sorry but probably not. When you were first starting out, you could have done practically anything and you were going to make good improvement. At the point you are at now, it gets far more difficult. Simply repeating what worked back when you started out is very unlikely to take you any farther.
OACs… Who ever manages an OAC? Primarily mountain climbers… who spend all day lifting theirselves up. John Gill said all he did was rope climbing. (Along with plenty of mountain climbing.) But mountain climbers are all very light bodyweight guys. John Gill being the largest I’ve heard of at 180lb.
Gymnasts who weight 140lbs and train all day.
And less then 20 other people in recorded history according to John Gill’s website. Not even 5 who weighed more than 200 pounds.
I’m 215 and can hold myself static halfway up with 20 pounds in my other hand for a few seconds. But I have serious doubts that I’ll ever do an OAC.
well thats probably were you begin to fall. Your doubt looks like the only thing that is stoping you from acheving it,i weigh 150-155 and am going to train for a whole year…its one of my many goals and i like to see them get accomplished.
[quote]Jay Sherman wrote:
Well I’m sorry but probably not. When you were first starting out, you could have done practically anything and you were going to make good improvement. At the point you are at now, it gets far more difficult. Simply repeating what worked back when you started out is very unlikely to take you any farther.
OACs… Who ever manages an OAC? Primarily mountain climbers… who spend all day lifting theirselves up. John Gill said all he did was rope climbing. (Along with plenty of mountain climbing.) But mountain climbers are all very light bodyweight guys. John Gill being the largest I’ve heard of at 180lb.
Gymnasts who weight 140lbs and train all day.
And less then 20 other people in recorded history according to John Gill’s website. Not even 5 who weighed more than 200 pounds.
I’m 215 and can hold myself static halfway up with 20 pounds in my other hand for a few seconds. But I have serious doubts that I’ll ever do an OAC.[/quote]
I can do one-arm chin ups, full ROM.
2 reps with left arm but only one with right arm (right handed too?)
I weigh 85kg @ 8%BF. However i suspect i’ll need a video for anyone to believe me. I’m a sprinter and have never climbed a rock! So i think it is a reachable goal for some.
There is a special technique you have to use i found. First you need to shrug your shoulder then pull down with your elbow, you just finish it off with your biceps. If you try to use your arm only you’ve got no chance.
[quote]LYR wrote:
I can do one-arm chin ups, full ROM.
2 reps with left arm but only one with right arm (right handed too?)
I weigh 85kg @ 8%BF. However i suspect i’ll need a video for anyone to believe me. I’m a sprinter and have never climbed a rock! So i think it is a reachable goal for some.
There is a special technique you have to use i found. First you need to shrug your shoulder then pull down with your elbow, you just finish it off with your biceps. If you try to use your arm only you’ve got no chance.[/quote]
[quote]LYR wrote:
I can do one-arm chin ups, full ROM.
2 reps with left arm but only one with right arm (right handed too?)
I weigh 85kg @ 8%BF. However i suspect i’ll need a video for anyone to believe me.[/quote]
It would be cool if you could (post a video). Not because I don’t believe you, but because I would like to see it
Basically, what you’re saying is that you try to use as much of your back (lats) as possible; makes sense.
I’ve always thought it would be cool to do one-arm chin ups, but I’ve never put any effort into it.
I think this is like Staley’s cleaning post; if you really want to achieve this feat, then concentrate on it for a year (like the OP intends to do) and you’ll get it.
[quote]mrl179 wrote:
well thats probably were you begin to fall. Your doubt looks like the only thing that is stoping you from acheving it,[/quote]
I don’t believe in that sort of thing. Possibly a good adrenaline rush could give me extra speed at the bottom but that’s not what you’re talking about. What you are talking about I consider adding mysticism into strength training.
[quote]i weigh 150-155 and am going to train for a whole year…its one of my many goals and i like to see them get accomplished.
But good luck with what your doing.[/quote]
And good luck to you.
Holding a chin at the top with a supramaximal load is a type of supramaximal adaptation training, which is considered an effective way of breaking through a performance barrier. Other methods that can be used to achieve the same goal include (but are not limited to):
-Attempting to increase the number of repetitions with near maximal loads. Try increasing your 2RM to a 3RM, or a 3RM to a 5RM.
-Decreasing your higher repetition training and including more 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM training.
-Using contrast methods. ex; perform a negative weighted chin with an additional weight between your feet, then release the weight at the bottom for increased concentric speed.
-Perform isometric holds at crucial points.
These can all improve your standard chinup, but they may not translate exactly to OAC’s. I would try training with gymnastic rings instead of a bar because you generally do OAC’s with a neutral grip. Also consider doing negative one arm chinups. Once you can do a weighted negative OAC with approximately 25% of your bodyweight, you should theoretically be strong enough to perform the concentric (maximal eccentric strength is 1.3-1.4 times greater than maximal concentric strength).
[quote]andy bumphren wrote:
Holding a chin at the top with a supramaximal load is a type of supramaximal adaptation training, which is considered an effective way of breaking through a performance barrier. Other methods that can be used to achieve the same goal include (but are not limited to):
-Attempting to increase the number of repetitions with near maximal loads. Try increasing your 2RM to a 3RM, or a 3RM to a 5RM.
-Decreasing your higher repetition training and including more 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM training.
-Using contrast methods. ex; perform a negative weighted chin with an additional weight between your feet, then release the weight at the bottom for increased concentric speed.
-Perform isometric holds at crucial points.
These can all improve your standard chinup, but they may not translate exactly to OAC’s. I would try training with gymnastic rings instead of a bar because you generally do OAC’s with a neutral grip. Also consider doing negative one arm chinups. Once you can do a weighted negative OAC with approximately 25% of your bodyweight, you should theoretically be strong enough to perform the concentric (maximal eccentric strength is 1.3-1.4 times greater than maximal concentric strength).[/quote]
[quote]andy bumphren wrote:
Holding a chin at the top with a supramaximal load is a type of supramaximal adaptation training, which is considered an effective way of breaking through a performance barrier. Other methods that can be used to achieve the same goal include (but are not limited to):
-Attempting to increase the number of repetitions with near maximal loads. Try increasing your 2RM to a 3RM, or a 3RM to a 5RM.
-Decreasing your higher repetition training and including more 1RM, 2RM, or 3RM training.
-Using contrast methods. ex; perform a negative weighted chin with an additional weight between your feet, then release the weight at the bottom for increased concentric speed.
-Perform isometric holds at crucial points.
These can all improve your standard chinup, but they may not translate exactly to OAC’s. I would try training with gymnastic rings instead of a bar because you generally do OAC’s with a neutral grip. Also consider doing negative one arm chinups. Once you can do a weighted negative OAC with approximately 25% of your bodyweight, you should theoretically be strong enough to perform the concentric (maximal eccentric strength is 1.3-1.4 times greater than maximal concentric strength).[/quote]
What do you consider a successful eccentric in order to have those numbers be legitimate? Like a 5 sec eccentric, a 1 sec eccentric, just fucking falling with a weight? There has to be something, shit I can do an eccentric depth drop from 1.3km but it don’t mean I can jump 1km…see what i’m getting at?
What do you consider a successful eccentric in order to have those numbers be legitimate? Like a 5 sec eccentric, a 1 sec eccentric, just fucking falling with a weight? There has to be something, shit I can do an eccentric depth drop from 1.3km but it don’t mean I can jump 1km…see what i’m getting at?
[/quote]
The eccentrics should be controlled, so the rep should last 1-2 seconds, then have a partner push you up to the start (or jump if you can touch the ground).
I’m doing negatives right now myself. To be exact though I’m just doing the bottom third of the movement with negatives for reps. I do sets of 3 right now. Trying to do the full ROM for multiple negatives just destroys me. Plus the very bottom is usually a weak point. And you don’t want to be moving down too fast on a negative when you hit bottom. You can injure your shoulder or elbow. So I’m trying to get really strong at negatives for the bottom third, then I’ll slowly increase the range of motion.
As far as the “excellent post/amazing post” Eh. I’ve done all that already.
Negatives though definitely need to be slower than 1 second for the whole ROM. Even just doing the bottom third of the movement I try probably 3 seconds for each negative. I’d say at least 5 seconds for the whole ROM.
Most people try to do OAC negatives when they’re really not strong enough. Even a good negative OAC is very impressive. But only doing one is useless. You have to be strong enough to get multiple reps for multiple sets. IMHO.
Jay, I hate to break it to you, but being 6’4" means you probably don’t have the leverages to do one armed chinups; that doesn’t mean the OP doesn’t. From what he has said it sounds like he does. Also, the methods I listed are pretty basic ways of increasing strength; that’s what he was asking for!
Well, assuming that 70lbs is a 3RM, try to turn that into a 5RM. A 5x5 style program would work: pick a weight you can do for 3 reps. Do 4 ot 5 sets with that weight trying to get 3 reps for each set. The first time you won’t get it but after about 3 weeks you should. Then take a week off, adjust the weight, and start again.
basically right now 70+ for pullup is my 2rm and for chin it is my 3rm so i will continue to try to increase that number. My goal is to get 15 reps both pullup and chin up.
[quote]andy bumphren wrote:
Jay, I hate to break it to you, but being 6’4" means you probably don’t have the leverages to do one armed chinups; that doesn’t mean the OP doesn’t. [/quote]
You’re not breaking anything to me as I seem to already know far more than you about the subject. If you have any questions feel free to ask but let’s not waste each other’s time with you attempting to give me advice.
I’d hope that when someone is getting near an OAC, they’ve at least learned the basic ways to gain strength. I have, so your post was not of interest to me personally. No need to get all offended.
Thought I’d chime in since I myself have been working on the OAC for a while now. I haven’t gotten a full ROM OAC yet, but I’m about 2/3 of the way up with my right arm and between 1/2 to 2/3 or the way up with my left.
I tried just pulling myself up as high as possible and then holding that position for 3 seconds for a while. And I did in fact see improvements in my ROM. I also tried doing negatives, and can now stop myself at numerous points along the decent with either arm.
At present I’m trying applying Poloquin’s 1-6 principle for improving my 1 RM with the movement. Of course, since I can’t do a body weight OAC yet, I’m using the assisted pull-up machine. Not really sure how effective this method will be in the long run, but I was able to improve my 1 RM from 35lbs of assistance with either hand to 22.5 lbs with my right hand and 25 lbs with my left hand. My 6 RM’s also went up as well.
I’m hoping that by the end of the month I’ll be able to do a 1 RM using my full bodyweight (averaging somewhere around 10-12.5 lbs of improvement per workout). But I’ll have to let you guys know how it works.
