Bench Help

the professor suggested that i start a new thread asking for help on my bench press. a little background. i’m 5’8", 190-195. raw max is a paltry 325. i’m an arch bencher with elbows tucked. been training for 7 years (powerlifting for 3). i compete at 181 and am open to move up to 198. i would like to total master or even elite at 181 before i move up. just a personal goal.

i have a shoulder that’s just now feeling half way stable after 3 years of recurrent injuries from baseball. i’ve had a mild grade 2 shoulder separation, associated impingement, and a torn labrum. i’ve gone through three bouts of rehab and this third setup is working very well in conjunction with soft tissue work. i’ll continue it to maintain scapular stability and balance with external and internal rotation for the rest of my life (it’s that good of a rehab program). these are not excuses, just a history.

my sticking point is usually right off the chest. the conundrum is i physically can’t bench raw full range too often. as the shoulder becomes more stable i might be able to do more training off the chest.

concurrently i’m using floor press, 2 and 3 boards, and towells to keep up some semblance of pressing strength with dumbbells for assistance since they don’t hurt too bad. for speed days i’ve dropped speed work in favor or rep/form work because the shoulder can’t take it and the fact that speed work hasn’t done much for my bench.

i use the CSR and pulldowns and pullups for lat work. i use high boards occasionally for triceps assistance as pin presses tear my shoulder apart. however lockout strength is not much of an issue as i’m lockin out 425 or better from where the shirt leaves off. i can do overhead pressing which sounds strange, but it doesn’t hurt and i’ve been using push presses and military presses as of late.

the professor suggested i “work on my chest” and i would like to hear an expounded version and how to put this plan into action. any thoughts?

“Train movements, not muscles.” Always remember that.

Try doing soft touch benches for a while and see what happens. Lower the bar to your chest but instead of pausing or doing touch and go, barely touch your tshirt and press back up. This will build incredible strength off the chest. This technique was shown to me by Bill Gillespie. Also try speed presses where you lower at a slower pace. You can also use pauses and soft touch with your speed benches.

thanks jay, i do adhere to the movement not muscle paradigm that cressey espouses to everyone, just tryin to cover all bases so folks know what i’m doing with descriptions of movement selection. i didn’t mean to make it sound like i was trying to isolate body parts. i’ll try the soft touch thing and see what happens.

It worked very well for me

[quote]RJay Floyd wrote:

Try doing soft touch benches for a while and see what happens. Lower the bar to your chest but instead of pausing or doing touch and go, barely touch your tshirt and press back up. This will build incredible strength off the chest. This technique was shown to me by Bill Gillespie. Also try speed presses where you lower at a slower pace. You can also use pauses and soft touch with your speed benches. [/quote]

RJay -
I like that a lot. Sounds like a great idea, and I had never heard of it before.

I have a sticking point in the same basic area. I will also try to incorporate this.

The idea is that you are basically improving reversal strength at that point, correct?

Thanks,
Tucker

yeah i remember seeing or at least hearing about your bench really shooting up as of late. are you gonna compete again any time soon?

Im probably going to compete again in December. Ive had some back problems the last few months that stem from not stretching enough or being smart. My deadlift has really gone in the crapper. Im gonna spend about three months just getting overall stronger. I want to pull 600 in the gym(i pull 50-60lbs more in a meet) and bench 405 raw. So my prescription is tons of good mornings and low box squats and tons of raw pressing.

take steroids

[quote]menkss wrote:
take steroids[/quote]

duly noted.

I’ve had surgery on both shoulders. I use a Blast shirt to train in on most of my heavy movements. It is one size bigger than my measurements call for, because I don’t want anything off the chest. It really helps keep my shoulders compressed and protected, while allowing me to train heavy and get stronger. It would be a cheap experiment at $38…

[quote]Antman517 wrote:
I’ve had surgery on both shoulders. I use a Blast shirt to train in on most of my heavy movements. It is one size bigger than my measurements call for, because I don’t want anything off the chest. It really helps keep my shoulders compressed and protected, while allowing me to train heavy and get stronger. It would be a cheap experiment at $38…[/quote]

i’ve been thinking about doing that very thing. how hard is it to get into that blast? would you even bother cuttin the back?

[quote]menkss wrote:
take steroids[/quote]

Didn’t all these guys sincerely try and help you out on a bench routine not to far back? Did steroids help you bust through that plateau?

joe, did you ever get a PM from me?

[quote]boondoc holiday wrote:
joe, did you ever get a PM from me?[/quote]

no. I am still trying to firgure out what suit to buy:)Metal Pro or Ipf V style

boondoc holiday,

Nerve impingement is definately not enjoyable. Noting some of your shoulder routines, the military press caught my eye. If you’re using the bar I would keep the weight in front of you and not shift behind your head. As you move the weight behind your head the muscles around the joints tighten and restrict vertical movement. This is bad…

Your bar max, with shirt, is 325 in 181 class? That’s not awfull. I shouldn’t have to tell you that in order to increase “raw” bench scores you need shoulder work. Do you bench regularly without a shirt and belt? Do you use a belt?

OD

demon, 325 is my raw max touch and go. the reason i put that is because i don’t have a legal shirt max on record. in training i’ve done 370 and 425 off a 2 board. that said most of my work is raw.

nerve impingement wasn’t the problem, it was supraspinatus impingement and is pretty common in overhead athletes. all my push press and military work is done to the front for that very reason.

joe,

i sent you a pm but apparently my pm’s aren’t getting through lately. i’m in florida and lifted in the southern states back in december and will be again right there with ya.

as for the suit, you are strong enough for the metal pro and it’s a great suit, very easy learning curve, great support and such. it takes me 500 to get parallel and 540 to do it without fighting the suit. but even fighting this suit is not too bad. i’d encourage you to go 2 ply as opposed to the ipf. that pro will last you as long as you keep around the same weight.

shoot me a pm brother.

I second the “train in a loose shirt” suggestion. A friend of mine is an aging powerlifter who tore his shoulder up in his younger bodybuilding phase, and the shirt is basically what’s allowing him to train and improve.

With all that’s gone on in the shoulder, have you looked into Active Release to break up the scar tissue? I know you said you’re going in for soft tissue work, but is it some sort of myofascial release technique?

It is strange that overhead pressing doesn’t hurt - have you looked into tightness of your scap retractors, or some other malfunction in the area?

I know, lots of questions, but just one more - what’s a CSR?

-Dan

chest supported row.

One question and a few thoughts:

What shirt are you using? When you say you are sticking on the chest, is that raw or shirted? If it is shirted, you either need a tighter or a better shirt.

I too have suffered some significant supraspinatus impingement, and I brought it up by babying my shoulders with a shirt, and lots of rotator cuff work. I did a ten week cycle without any raw full-range benching at all, (aside from an abbreviated warm-up chain) and I just cycled down in shirt size as the weight went up. I went up two sizes from my competition shirt (Fury at the time) and found I could easily put the shirt on myself, while still getting significant support.

Personally I find doing heavy, raw low-touch work is very hard on my shoulders, and tend to do my raw work touching a little higher. Might be worth it to try tucking a little less on the raw work.

One piece of equipment that really helped my rotator work was ?The Shoulder Horn.? EliteFTS carries them.

boondoc holiday,

Not to knock you or anything. I was looking to compete in that same weight class only to find out the 160’s kids were out pressing me by some serious pounds. Check the results from the last WABDL meet here in Hawaii.

Open Men 132 HI 402.3
Open Men 148 HI 402.3
Open Men 165 HI 476.0

I mean some of them are world class and are even world record holders, but even with my raw bench at 395 it still is no where near these guys. Maybe you can factor in this in your decision to go up a weight class.