[quote]LUEshi wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
“not a lot of weight by mythical internet standards”
lol, i hear you.
i dont know what gives, but i have pulled close to 700lbs in the past, and as recent as a few weeks ago pulled 530 for reps. 90-100lb dumbbell rows are very heavy for me. yet just about every internet warrior on this site can crush the 125-200lbers.
This just confirms my theory that DB rows are a weird exercise. I can do 90-100lb rows for high reps (strict form, even) with very little trouble, but I’m nowhere near a 500+ deadlift.
Probably a leverage thing or something. Or maybe 'cause I have shortass arms.[/quote]
Why should a big row equate to a big deadlift? You have to lift the barbell off of the floor with your legs, so if you do tons of rows and little deadlifts then you won’t be able to deadlift big. If you have proportionally strong lats compared to your legs/posterior chain, then again, a big row won’t equal a big pull.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
well hanley, all of my 650lb plus deadlifts were done sumo with either a suit or briefs, so those were probably more hips than anything else,
many many years of high pulls, and 3-4 times a week of back training probably has more to do with what little mass i have on my back than anything else.
[/quote]
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
heavythrower wrote:
“not a lot of weight by mythical internet standards”
lol, i hear you.
i dont know what gives, but i have pulled close to 700lbs in the past, and as recent as a few weeks ago pulled 530 for reps. 90-100lb dumbbell rows are very heavy for me. yet just about every internet warrior on this site can crush the 125-200lbers.
This just confirms my theory that DB rows are a weird exercise. I can do 90-100lb rows for high reps (strict form, even) with very little trouble, but I’m nowhere near a 500+ deadlift.
Probably a leverage thing or something. Or maybe 'cause I have shortass arms.
Why should a big row equate to a big deadlift? You have to lift the barbell off of the floor with your legs, so if you do tons of rows and little deadlifts then you won’t be able to deadlift big. If you have proportionally strong lats compared to your legs/posterior chain, then again, a big row won’t equal a big pull.
[/quote]
big rows dont equate to big deadlifts. its more like this:
I got a nice 20x100 PR tonight. I really like these. I feel much tighter pulling now that I have really turned up the intensity on rowing-type exercises.
My best is 120lbsX30 with straps. I don’t know what my best strapless would be but I warmed up with the 100s for 15 reps without straps and that wasn’t too hard. Course, it doesn’t get really hard with the 120s until I’m past rep 20. Then it gets fun.
Long time ago (15+yrs) I managed 2 sets of 5 with 80kg, sloppy form though and used straps. Last year I tried out the exercise again (lightish, ~62.5kg for 8’s, no straps) only to pull something (possibly my subscapularis) so I’m laying off them for a while, but I will re-visit them. I’m currently doing BB Rows (120kg x 4 sets of 5)
big rows dont equate to big deadlifts. its more like this:
big rows+deadlifts=bigger deadlift[/quote]
I don’t see it. I think that a better case could be made for big rows equals a big bench, if you bench with a certain form (elbows tucked, shoulder blades pinched,etc.)
big rows dont equate to big deadlifts. its more like this:
big rows+deadlifts=bigger deadlift
I don’t see it. I think that a better case could be made for big rows equals a big bench, if you bench with a certain form (elbows tucked, shoulder blades pinched,etc.)
[/quote]
In order to maintain a tight back during a heavy deadlift, your upper back has to be strong, no? What part arent you seeing? Strengthening your upperback/rear delts will make locking out a heavy deadlift easier.
In order to maintain a tight back during a heavy deadlift, your upper back has to be strong, no? What part arent you seeing? Strengthening your upperback/rear delts will make locking out a heavy deadlift easier.[/quote]
I guess shrugs could help the lockout too, but the same motion could be better served by actually doing lockouts/reverse band pulls that would work the lats and other upper back muscles in the manner that they are actually used in the deadlift, as opposed to a rowing motion.
Rack pulls have a pretty high neural cost. If youre doing the upper back work in addition to your deadlift training or some other heavy training (as most lifters do), then heavy partials are probably not the best idea.
In order to maintain a tight back during a heavy deadlift, your upper back has to be strong, no? What part arent you seeing? Strengthening your upperback/rear delts will make locking out a heavy deadlift easier.
I guess shrugs could help the lockout too, but the same motion could be better served by actually doing lockouts/reverse band pulls that would work the lats and other upper back muscles in the manner that they are actually used in the deadlift, as opposed to a rowing motion.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
“not a lot of weight by mythical internet standards”
lol, i hear you.
i dont know what gives, but i have pulled close to 700lbs in the past, and as recent as a few weeks ago pulled 530 for reps. 90-100lb dumbbell rows are very heavy for me. yet just about every internet warrior on this site can crush the 125-200lbers.
must be something in the watter out there in cyberspace. [/quote]
Same problem here. I’m no beast at at any stretch of the imagination but every time I do DB rows I keep thinking what the hell I am doing wrong?
In order to maintain a tight back during a heavy deadlift, your upper back has to be strong, no? What part arent you seeing? Strengthening your upperback/rear delts will make locking out a heavy deadlift easier.
I guess shrugs could help the lockout too, but the same motion could be better served by actually doing lockouts/reverse band pulls that would work the lats and other upper back muscles in the manner that they are actually used in the deadlift, as opposed to a rowing motion.
[/quote]
Shrugs don’t really help, because you don;t shrug the weight near lockout, you have to pretty much pinch/retract your shoulder blades, which is basically DB rows.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
case in point. i do not have dumbbells at my home gym yet, so i rigged this set up for “kroc-rows”. i have 35 kg on the bar, which is not even a “real” 35kg due to the leverage.
point? i suck.
[video]532[/video][/quote]
That is “more” than 35kg cause of the leverage the weight moves farther than your hand, i dont know how having the bar set up like that would affect it though, also that is really strict form no body english at all.
I could find lots of people who built a big deadlift without doing dumbell rows as assistance exercises.
[/quote]
No one is contesting that. No one ever said you HAD to do them. Those of us who do them most likely do them because we have found some benefit from them and like doing them. End of thread.
i think kroc rows are about the best grip work i have ever done.
My best is 120x20 with dumbells, and 88x31 with KBs. No reason to use straps if you are working on grip.
Best DL is 622.
My hands are very small.
If you don’t think grip will affect your pull, try pulling with a clean grip, and watch what happens to your form and speed when pulling a heavy single with a clean grip.
[quote]Julius_Caesar wrote:
Hanley wrote:
Tell that to Matt K.
I could find lots of people who built a big deadlift without doing dumbell rows as assistance exercises.
[/quote]
And what does that prove? You don’t need to row to get a big deadlift? no fucking shit sherlock.
Does it mean that dumbbells rows won’t have a positive affect on your deadlift? No it most certainly does not. If you make your girp stronger and put more meat/strength onto your upper back then I’d LOVE to be told how it doesn’t improve your deadlift.
Also, I completely agree with Jack, you can never have too much grip strength.
