bill starr’s power routine is good
[quote]GhostOD wrote:
Jesus christ, wrestling sounds stressful. [/quote]
Yep. Just think how easy and enjoyable life is, after going through that hell in high school.
Wouldn’t trade it for the world. (although like I said earlier, I would have done it differently)
Keep in mind too, OP: you can start the year at 152-160, and work your way down slower and healthier. I dunno what state you are in or what the rules are, but I think when I was in high school you only had to make 3-4 weigh-ins at a weight to be eligible to wrestle that weight in sections/state.
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
[quote]GhostOD wrote:
Jesus christ, wrestling sounds stressful. [/quote]
Yep. Just think how easy and enjoyable life is, after going through that hell in high school.
Wouldn’t trade it for the world. (although like I said earlier, I would have done it differently)
Keep in mind too, OP: you can start the year at 152-160, and work your way down slower and healthier. I dunno what state you are in or what the rules are, but I think when I was in high school you only had to make 3-4 weigh-ins at a weight to be eligible to wrestle that weight in sections/state. [/quote]
Theres a reason the quotes stands ‘One you’ve wrestled everything else in life is easy.’
And yeah the thought is though that theres a chance I will be below 7% bodyfat at hydration, in which case I would not be allowed to lose anymore weight. I have 3 months until high school practice starts up again, so I’m not too worried about dropping it.
I wrestled in HS D3,D1, and some Greco international after that-
cutting is obviously the evil of the sport sad but just part of the game
I cut 12lbs 2x a week in college to compete at 118.5 and 125, and later in the 130’s
Cutting is dangerous- and not healthy but that is another thread entirely.
right now- for you any decent program that you bust your ass on
you will get stronger faster ect.
Just remember that its GPP the weight room while important is probably something you need
spend less time on it then you think
College we might have spent 3 1 hour sessions in the weight room and that was it.
and it was plenty.
post college we did more -but much of the work in the ‘weight room’ was
conditioning actual lifting was very brief.
really its about your strength training not impacting your other work.
and really its about the other work.
people get confused and spend more time in the weight room cause to tell the truth
its easier to get better at moving weights then it is at your sport.
all of my supervised lifting - involved allot of cleans, many O-lift variations,
jumps, unilateral leg work, pullups but this is for a sub 150lb athlete,
Im not sure what the bigger athletes did.
maybe that training is dated, maybe not.
531 is great in that you can scale it any way you like
you can do it in 3,4,or2 days a week and you can vary the
assistance work.
You can still get stronger - and keep strength on 5.3.1 if you limit the assistance work-
and stay away from the BBB sets which are geared for hypertrophy.
you can also look at WSFSB III which is geared for in season athletes.
good luck with your goals.
[quote]mkral55 wrote:
[quote]GhostOD wrote:
Jesus christ, wrestling sounds stressful. [/quote]
Yep. Just think how easy and enjoyable life is, after going through that hell in high school.
Wouldn’t trade it for the world. (although like I said earlier, I would have done it differently)
Keep in mind too, OP: you can start the year at 152-160, and work your way down slower and healthier. I dunno what state you are in or what the rules are, but I think when I was in high school you only had to make 3-4 weigh-ins at a weight to be eligible to wrestle that weight in sections/state. [/quote]
it is usually called certified weigh ins
you have to make weight usually 3 times early in the season to even compete at that weight
later in the season.
Check out Zach Even Esh’s stuff. Also, James Smith (Diesel Strength and Conditioning) for advice on training for wrestling. It’s what they do for a living and they are pretty damn good at it. You are not going to get a lot of good info on here about something this specific. I am probably one of the most qualified people on here to answer this (Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach, USA Weightlifting Certified, Westside Certified, Master’s Degree, a million other little stupid bullshit things that mean nothing for the most part) but I would have no idea where to tell you to start. 5/3/1 is a great program for developing general strength and also a good program to teach the sheer awesomeness of doing compound power lifts. As far as being ideal for an actual sport, probably not your best choice. Too many other variables go into developing the skills needed to do well in sports. Just my opinion. Check those guys out, like I said, they know their shit.
[quote]kmcnyc wrote:
I wrestled in HS D3,D1, and some Greco international after that-
cutting is obviously the evil of the sport sad but just part of the game
I cut 12lbs 2x a week in college to compete at 118.5 and 125, and later in the 130’s
Cutting is dangerous- and not healthy but that is another thread entirely.
right now- for you any decent program that you bust your ass on
you will get stronger faster ect.
Just remember that its GPP the weight room while important is probably something you need
spend less time on it then you think
College we might have spent 3 1 hour sessions in the weight room and that was it.
and it was plenty.
post college we did more -but much of the work in the ‘weight room’ was
conditioning actual lifting was very brief.
really its about your strength training not impacting your other work.
and really its about the other work.
people get confused and spend more time in the weight room cause to tell the truth
its easier to get better at moving weights then it is at your sport.
all of my supervised lifting - involved allot of cleans, many O-lift variations,
jumps, unilateral leg work, pullups but this is for a sub 150lb athlete,
Im not sure what the bigger athletes did.
maybe that training is dated, maybe not.
531 is great in that you can scale it any way you like
you can do it in 3,4,or2 days a week and you can vary the
assistance work.
You can still get stronger - and keep strength on 5.3.1 if you limit the assistance work-
and stay away from the BBB sets which are geared for hypertrophy.
you can also look at WSFSB III which is geared for in season athletes.
good luck with your goals.
[/quote]
Thanks for the advice, where’d you wrestle for and where in grecco?
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Check out Zach Even Esh’s stuff. Also, James Smith (Diesel Strength and Conditioning) for advice on training for wrestling. It’s what they do for a living and they are pretty damn good at it. You are not going to get a lot of good info on here about something this specific. I am probably one of the most qualified people on here to answer this (Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach, USA Weightlifting Certified, Westside Certified, Master’s Degree, a million other little stupid bullshit things that mean nothing for the most part) but I would have no idea where to tell you to start. 5/3/1 is a great program for developing general strength and also a good program to teach the sheer awesomeness of doing compound power lifts. As far as being ideal for an actual sport, probably not your best choice. Too many other variables go into developing the skills needed to do well in sports. Just my opinion. Check those guys out, like I said, they know their shit.[/quote]
He’s not looking for info for training for wrestling. He has that locked down (has a plan). He’s looking for info on training while cutting more than 15% of his current weight at an alleged 11% BF. This couldn’t be more different from the basis of your response.
I coach wrestling and have been involved in the sport my whole life. I guess my panties are in a somewhat of a scrunch by you stating he won’t get good info about something this specific here, and then going on to name yourself as the best qualified person based on a bunch of certs that by your own admission are BS. Give me a fuckin’ break.
We try to do the best we can with the information given. There’s several guys on here who have been in the trenches with this shit and understand what he is going through.
I thought Storm the beaches post -wasnt like that.
maybe Im wrong?
I think he was saying he is a pretty knowledgeable guy and he had no idea how to start.
I kind of get my panties in a bunch about S&C for a sport I spent a long long time doing too
so I can see it is upsetting.
Zack Evan Esch Diesel crew and I would add Martin Rooney
do have some very good programming for wrestling they are worth checking out.
personally - without turning this into a what is the best way to train debate-
we get miles of those in combat sports
I would see what your coach or coaches have in mind for you for weight training.
they know more about you then I can.
and I would find the minimum- of work that gives you the best results
has the least chance for injury
and does not interfere with your skill work- wrestling- and school
your other job.
as for me - in a nutshell
I played Judo from like 7 or 8? thru HS and college.
Wrestling started in HS- I know a late starter
ran track wrestled and actually volley ball thru HS
went to camp 3x twice in PA once in Oklahoma for 28 days
went to a D-3 college SUNY Morrisville did two years there
and a TON of greco
Eventually I got accepted to Syracuse for a year- great coach.
and started I tried out for 3 or 4 other D1 schools-
and was invited out to the OTC way back in 1991 to help with prep for the 92 olympics
injuries, red shirting and making weight caught up with me
and I moved on
but then did club greco for a few more years.
squeezed out a few more years coaching and playing judo - til my early to mid thirties
Mohawk Valley greco and NYAC or New York Atheletic Club.
sounds like allot of name dropping but really I had a horrible record,never won any big titles
lost far more then I won but did the work and took advantage of great coaching
and good coaching connections.
its about showing up.
OP how long do you have between weigh-ins and matches?
For a HS kid its like an hour before
probably less because he is midsized
meet almost always go in order-
lightest to heaviest so its less time for the lighter weights
to recoup.
there are exceptions-
any tournament particularly things leading to states
if the tourney goes 2 days you weigh in twice.
and I think I did have time in HS once or twice to weigh in in the morning-
of a match at home.
and its just not like PL people- no offense.
its is a different kind of cutting- and not doing it means not starting.
Weigh-ins vary. Some duals do the flip and start at a random class, tournys begin with the 103 so its always a plus being the bigger guys.
OP honestly the kids talkin smack about wrestling dont understand because they either have never wrestled or were not good enough to respect the sport.
Any how, I wrestled 160 my Junior year, Im not sure how it is in Jersey but your lifts definitely are low for that weight class. To be productive at the sport I support your going lower in weight. That being said your lifts will still be low even at 145 level. You still have what, 3 months till season? I’d do a HC strength program. Losing the weight is the easy part which a seasoned wrestler will understand. Do Jersey have the HS regulations where you can only lose a certain amount per week after your first weigh-in?
My best friends during off season were heavy as DL’s 5,5,3,2,1 bent over rows, heavy benching, squats(back and front squats) and hang cleans. I was always more power though and stuck with power combo’s. Seeing your strength levels you probably dont use the same movements I pursued. I think if you hit it hard for the next 3 months in the gym youll be fine as long as jersey doesnt do that limit crap.
Anyways, goodluck with your road to the season.
What does your diet look like? you said you had it all together, can you throw up the link?
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:
Check out Zach Even Esh’s stuff. Also, James Smith (Diesel Strength and Conditioning) for advice on training for wrestling. It’s what they do for a living and they are pretty damn good at it. You are not going to get a lot of good info on here about something this specific. I am probably one of the most qualified people on here to answer this (Certified Strength and Conditioning Coach, USA Weightlifting Certified, Westside Certified, Master’s Degree, a million other little stupid bullshit things that mean nothing for the most part) but I would have no idea where to tell you to start. 5/3/1 is a great program for developing general strength and also a good program to teach the sheer awesomeness of doing compound power lifts. As far as being ideal for an actual sport, probably not your best choice. Too many other variables go into developing the skills needed to do well in sports. Just my opinion. Check those guys out, like I said, they know their shit.[/quote]
He’s not looking for info for training for wrestling. He has that locked down (has a plan). He’s looking for info on training while cutting more than 15% of his current weight at an alleged 11% BF. This couldn’t be more different from the basis of your response.
I coach wrestling and have been involved in the sport my whole life. I guess my panties are in a somewhat of a scrunch by you stating he won’t get good info about something this specific here, and then going on to name yourself as the best qualified person based on a bunch of certs that by your own admission are BS. Give me a fuckin’ break.
We try to do the best we can with the information given. There’s several guys on here who have been in the trenches with this shit and understand what he is going through.[/quote]
How is cutting weight not a part of training? Like I said, I have about zero experience with wrestlers and yes, by my own admission, every certification except for the Westside Cert. is total bullshit. In the trenches experience is great. My problem is 99% of the coaches I have met with a lot of self proclamied in the trenches experience, don’t know there asshole from a hole in the ground.
I was just offering some direction to get this kid to people that deal with this kind of training (including dieting and cutting) and that have actually had some success with the athletes they coach.
And I am sorry for what I did to your panties.
achilesofwar good points on duals competitions-
varying times
See storm the beach’'s post wanst like that.
and he apoligized for sand in the thong.
Here is Wender talking about how training combat athletes is different
And he said this too- in one of the blood and chalk articles
‘people really, really need to realize that weight room work for sports is nothing more than GPP.’
people kind of forget that- I mean this is a bb and S&C and powelifting site for the most part.
there was a video posted ages ago- about Iowa state wrestling in the weight room
their form was horrible and everyone
jumped on that-
screamed they should do west side
and ignored that the s&c aspect of wrestling is probably the least important
of an already packed schedule for training
Yeah you got it right with the weighins, typically 45mins-1hr.
I bought the 531 ebook, looking into it.
I also have a prowler, which I use very often. My conditioning is top notch, i still wrestle 2x a week and am in better shape than i was in season IMO.
@kmcnyc Thats really cool that you went to syracuse, I would be interested in trying freestyle as I’ve been taught to wrestle it but never competed.
@Achilles Yeah here it is Reviewing My Cut Diet - Supplements and Nutrition - Forums - T Nation
I’ve been doing it since monday this week been losing about .3 a day which is what I expected. Havent had a loss of strength too much, actually set a PR squat monday 190 for 4 sets of 6.
Nice to see some other Minnesota people in here.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Theres a reason the quotes stands ‘One you’ve wrestled everything else in life is easy.’
And yeah the thought is though that theres a chance I will be below 7% bodyfat at hydration, in which case I would not be allowed to lose anymore weight. I have 3 months until high school practice starts up again, so I’m not too worried about dropping it.[/quote]
My coach always says something along those lines (MMA coach, never did HS/college wrestling myself, but he was a very good collegiate wrestler before he got into martial arts.)
After cutting on a whim for a submission wrestling tournament, I can only begin to see where you guys are coming from…having to worry about that for months man, that’d kill me.
[quote]Id13 wrote:
Nice to see some other Minnesota people in here.
[quote]PlainPat wrote:
Theres a reason the quotes stands ‘One you’ve wrestled everything else in life is easy.’
And yeah the thought is though that theres a chance I will be below 7% bodyfat at hydration, in which case I would not be allowed to lose anymore weight. I have 3 months until high school practice starts up again, so I’m not too worried about dropping it.[/quote]
My coach always says something along those lines (MMA coach, never did HS/college wrestling myself, but he was a very good collegiate wrestler before he got into martial arts.)
After cutting on a whim for a submission wrestling tournament, I can only begin to see where you guys are coming from…having to worry about that for months man, that’d kill me.[/quote]
Hey, ya know, you do what you have to do to give yourself your best chances to win. It’s the price we pay.
Pushed the Prowler today after 531 Overhead Press +assistance day, been aiming for near 30 pushes after every lifting session, this it he 4th time I’ve gotten the pushes in. Me and the prowler have a love hate relationship.