Why I, BODYBUILDER Isn't as Important as You Think

Training
41

[quote]the pale writer wrote:
Ya…how’s it going?..you guys using the protocol?..4 days for the perfect rep?..[/quote]

It’s been an amazing experience.

We trained twice on Monday, three times on Tuesday, two times on Wednesday, and three times on Thursday. I’m taking today off so I can lick my wounds and recover a bit more, but the Anaconda, Surge Workout Fuel, Finibar, and Mag-10 protein have been life savers.

And yeah, it took us a couple days to get the perfect rep down. I found out that I’m incredibly explosive but have poor starting strength. Looks like pin presses and dead-stop reps for me.

-Nate

42

[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
Nate Green wrote:
Excellent post, Thibs.

Guys, I think I’ve trained 10 times in the last four days so I’m playing catch-up on writing (I think TC may beat me with a stick), but I can still answer a few questions if anyone has any.

-Nate

Nate,

Can you take us through what you did, step-by-step, for the perfect rep? Any practical insights on exercise/bodypart selection for perfect reps?

[/quote]

This will probably be the subject of a future article, but I will say this:

You’re probably not going fast enough.

Start using just the bar to work on the “turn-around” speed, like the bottom of the bench press for example.

A couple other things:

  • Focus on the antagonist more than the working muscle.

  • Keep incredibly tight.

  • Lower the bar under control

  • Focus on the “turn-around point”

  • Go slow on the ramping at first. Make smaller jumps.

-Nate

43

[quote]siouxperman wrote:
Nate,

How do you see the above average (I wouldn’t consider most T-Nation readers average)lifter grasping the fundamentals of this program? Obviosuly Thib mentioned that you and other very knowledgable people had some learning/adapting to do, so I’m wondering how this type of thing gets propogated to the masses without losing its central concepts, whatever those might be.[/quote]

The people who are willing to learn and are able to put in the effort will get it, but it’ll take a little time.

New lifters and guys who’ve been lifting for over three years will pick it up faster, I think. It’s the guys who’ve been training for a couple of years, made some progress, and are more stuck in their beliefs that will have a harder time.

-Nate

44

[quote]pflifter wrote:
Nate/CT,

Using bench press as an example. Do you employ a slight chest bounce to accelerate in the stretched position? In essence are you starting off the negative slow and controlled and then speeding it up once you get closer to your chest (say 4-5 inches or so)?

[/quote]

No bounce… an explosive turnaround means switching from eccentric to concentric action as fast as you can. A bounce is not a contraction.

45

[quote]-Sigil- wrote:
Nate Green wrote:
Excellent post, Thibs.

Guys, I think I’ve trained 10 times in the last four days so I’m playing catch-up on writing (I think TC may beat me with a stick), but I can still answer a few questions if anyone has any.

-Nate

Nate,

Can you take us through what you did, step-by-step, for the perfect rep? Any practical insights on exercise/bodypart selection for perfect reps?

[/quote]

Mighty_Stu actually took 5-6 pages worth of notes on that subject, maybe he’ll chime in.

46

Definitely going to focus on the turnaround point today in my bench press. Thib, is there any way to tell if we need to start adding in lifts that don’t use the SSC (i.e. pin presses, like Nate mentioned above)? Or is it all gauged on our perception of how fast we think we are going.

47

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Definitely going to focus on the turnaround point today in my bench press. Thib, is there any way to tell if we need to start adding in lifts that don’t use the SSC (i.e. pin presses, like Nate mentioned above)? Or is it all gauged on our perception of how fast we think we are going.[/quote]

Perception is good, but I got some cold, hard evidence when I fizzled out on my blast-isometric bench press.

I hit 295 pounds for a triple a day before as my max-force set (the last set at which I could still lift explosively) but had trouble with 225 when it started a few inches off my chest.

-Nate

48

Nate,

Are you training more than once per day for experimental purposes, or can the I, BODYBUILDER program be altered that way?

Also, in regards to the “perfect rep” for exercises such as the deadlift, what are some pointers on the “turn-around point”?

Would you accelerate the weight as fast as possible once it hits the ground or would you stop short of the ground?

-Stephen

49

[quote]stephensilva1 wrote:
Nate,

Are you training more than once per day for experimental purposes, or can the I, BODYBUILDER program be altered that way?

Also, in regards to the “perfect rep” for exercises such as the deadlift, what are some pointers on the “turn-around point”?

Would you accelerate the weight as fast as possible once it hits the ground or would you stop short of the ground?

-Stephen[/quote]

Christian normally trains two or three times per day, and I can definitely see the benefit of that. Each workout primes the nervous system for the next.

Personally, I’ll probably train once per day most often and throw in some double sessions every now and then.

Christian may need to chime in on this, but it’s my understanding that you should let the weight settle on the floor and get tight again before pulling the next rep. The “turn-around” point where you’d really want to accelerate would be the second pull right after the bar gets past your knees.

-Nate

50

well, I just stepped off my plane back to NY (typing on my phone!), so to be short (for now)… reversing the weight is drastically different from bouncing the bar. The twitch reps served not solely as a CNS activation technique, but also served to allow us to focus on utilizing the atagonist muscles to control the weight In both directions (focusing on the ‘stretched/relaxed’ portion). it was actually very different than my usual ‘lower under control/explode on the way up’ appproach. there is no pause at the point of reversal. (i’ll type more when I can)

S

51

Before I heard about this here, in some of my pressing workouts I’ve actually focused on a kind of turnaround. In my mind I just called it “rapid touch-and-go”, although most of the time I trained with a slight pause. This technique actually caused some of the reps to be either with a slight bounce or even failure to reach the last few inches to the chest (turnaround too soon). Not often, but I’d say 10% of reps were that way.

What I’m saying is, it can be really difficult to get used to it and perform 100% of reps perfectly, because you have to be very focused on many parts of the technique.

The thing is, I’ve also been not completely satisfied with those “snappy” reps even when done without the above mistakes - I felt like it was a minor form of cheating and using momentum.

But it turns out that this is not cheating, but maximum force development - the thing that is surely desired. Great to know this!

52

[quote]Nate Green wrote:

Christian normally trains two or three times per day, and I can definitely see the benefit of that. Each workout primes the nervous system for the next.

Personally, I’ll probably train once per day most often and throw in some double sessions every now and then.

[/quote]

Nate - When you train multiple times per day are the body part splits different? And is the full nutritional protocol followed prior to each session?

I ask because I have been using the CNS activation / Ramping weight / Explosive force reps / Autoregulation hierarchy to great success with the double-dose FINiBAR / Surge Workout Fuel / Surge Recovery pre- and CH + L-Leucine during and 60+, but my CNS is still completely fried for the rest of the day.

I train first thing in the morning and it is all I can do to keep myself upright, let alone go all out again with another session before a night’s rest - but perhaps Anaconda and MAG-10 will help with this …

53

This sounds a lot like what Eric Cressey advocates in regards to the bench press.

The idea is to actively pull the bar down with the upper back.

As far as the turn around point, its going to be interesting to see exactly what the process is.

Thanks for the info.

MM

54

Nate/CT,

Is there any chance that the editors will put together a Q and A section with all pertinent info about these methods from threads like this one?

I ask because I love following along the most useful forum threads as much as possible, but family and work demands leave me with very little time to stay full abreast of all that is going on (I’m likely not alone on that front, as I realize many busy family men frequent this site)…half the time I feel like I am missing a big chunk of the story, and this seems like one of those things where you either need to be all in and gathering every bit of info or just ignore it completely and stay away. Half the story seems like you’d just end up spinning your wheels and doing anything but what Coach Thibaudeau would truly advocate.

55

So I just had my 5/3/1 bench session and… doing the “perfect rep” is a lot harder than it sounds! Also, I found that when I did this as intended, my back actually sort of jumped off the bunch from the force, and I lost my tightness. Thib or Nate, have you guys experienced this when doing a bench press variation?

56

Coach Thib, you wrote:
Let me tell you this: if you do not master the art of the perfect rep, do not grasp how to get into that activated state and don’t know how to autoregulate, then IBB will simply be just another internet program… no better or worse than the tens of thousand already available, and that would truly sadden me.

I understand everything, but was confused as to the comment about “activated state…” Now in order to do that, I warm up, do some feel sets to feel comfortable, then start my workout at around 70% of max…Now my question is that do I have to “activate” for all the different exercises?

I usually start off with Incline Chest Press, but move onto 3 or 4 more exercises for chest and tri’s…so I was confused if I need to activate my CNS again or if in just the beginning it is important?

Thanks for anyones advice and reply

57

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
When it comes out (it will!, honest) most people will miss the boat completely with this I, BODYBUILDER thing. Most readers will simply jump into it like they would a regular program. It’s not meant to be that way.
[/quote]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Let me tell you this: if you do not master the art of the perfect rep, do not grasp how to get into that activated state and don’t know how to autoregulate, then IBB will simply be just another internet program… no better or worse than the tens of thousand already available, and that would truly sadden me.
[/quote]

I don’t mean to sound too harsh here. I’m a huge fan of this site, of Biotest, and the contributors here. It’s given me far more than I could possibly give back.

But what’s up with this post?

CT’s comments here are in such stark contrast to the hype surrounding I, BODYBUILDER, that I had to blink my eyes at first. Yes, muscle gains are all about the “perfect rep” (whatever that is) …and the diet, …and the rest, …and the [insert your next favorite elusive intangible here]. But this post sounds more like a move to temper expectations, chill-out the masses, and backpedal the expectations on I, BODYBUILDER. In short, it’s an attempt, given all the hype, to position the locus away from the I, BODYBUILDER product per se and back onto the individual. In short… it sounds like a giant, social, mea culpa.

Granted, this is the way it’s always been and always going to be. Not happy with your body? You’re unlikely to find the answer in a bottle for $39.95 and a few page spread of marketing drivel a la Muscle & Fiction. Improvement in bodybuilding–and anything else worthwhile in life–comes through persistent sweat and study. And… well… good genetics are always a bonus (again, as in anything).

So, thanks for the temperance, CT. But it wouldn’t be needed without the full court, multimedia blitz on I, BODYBUILDER in the first place.

58

[quote]Nate Green wrote:
the pale writer wrote:
Ya…how’s it going?..you guys using the protocol?..4 days for the perfect rep?..

It’s been an amazing experience.

We trained twice on Monday, three times on Tuesday, two times on Wednesday, and three times on Thursday. I’m taking today off so I can lick my wounds and recover a bit more, but the Anaconda, Surge Workout Fuel, Finibar, and MAG-10 protein have been life savers.

And yeah, it took us a couple days to get the perfect rep down. I found out that I’m incredibly explosive but have poor starting strength. Looks like pin presses and dead-stop reps for me.

-Nate[/quote]

UUUHHHH…what the hell is MAG-10 protein!!! I haven’t heard anything about that! New supp. perhaps???
Don’t hold back Nate…is that another NEW Biotest supp coming out???

59

Have you heard of Anaconda?

60

MAG-10 is probably the CH used postworkout and also for pulsing.