I’m going to start doing deadstart push-ups with bands again. They did an outstanding job at increasing my dumbell bench up to the gyms highest DBs, dunno why I stopped doing them actually. Definitely worth trying a set, just make sure you push insanely hard off of the floor and start with zero tension in your muscles.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Teledin wrote:
Hypertrophy tease =P
I like the post explaining the perfect rep. Really highlighted one aspect of training that I never really thought about too much. I won’t be doing the I-BB thing, but I’ll be adapting aspects of it to my own training. Currently in the process of formulating a routine for my next bulk in a few months and this thread has made me go back and really think about my approach.
Really rekindled my interest with the upcoming program.
It is really our objective to teach people how to train, not how to follow a program we have written. If you can learn the basic principles we are taking about (perfect rep, activation, autoregulation) then you can apply them to almost any program.
Regarding the rep… it all starts there!!! How can we talk about advanced methods, sets manipulation and other complex variable if the most basic training unit, the rep, is not done properly?[/quote]
Don’t you feel (as i do) that alot of this is experience based? For instance i have been lifting for 30 years, i can (in a pinch) get a great workout with just a pair of light dumbells, just by “feeling” the reps out and really connecting with the muscle being worked. But i can’t seem to teach that to anyone…they just have to figure it out as their mind muscle connection (for lack of a better term) becomes stronger.
Christian,
For a while I was training bench press using dead stop reps, with much lighter weight than normal training (185lb for example) at about 10-12 reps. I understand now the folly of that rep/weight scheme and limited activation. However, I am still curious as to what is the best way to produce max force at the max tension.
A dead stop on the bench press will certainly necessitate more force production than a bounce (off the chest or within the fibers, tendons, etc.), but I am wondering if it would be better, in your experience, to slow the eccentric just before moving to concentric and not actually come to a dead stop.
Basically it seems like you’re trying to create a higher magnitude of impulse at the transition from eccentric to concentric, and it seems that greater impulse could be generated when simultaneously stopping and reversing the direction of a weight that has downward velocity, rather than starting from a dead stop on the chest. I hope that is cogent enough to warrant a response, and I may simply be over thinking this.
CT, The quest for the perfect rep! So that I understand this correctly; I will use the deadlift as an examble.
At the bottom of the rep, there should be no pause and explode back to the standing position. This explosion at the bottom is what you refer to as snappy return? Also, something I suppose I should know but will ask anyway, staying with the deadlift, eccentric would be the downward motion and concentric would be the upward lift?
Thanks,
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
therajraj wrote:
The Matt Kroc video you posted… those are perfect reps?
I haven’t looked at them with a coaching mind. But I do remember him having a lightning fast turnaround. So, yes, the quality of the rep is very high but form might not be perfect on all lifts.[/quote]
Sorry, missed this link. Could someone please post?
Thanks.
Been lifting for, I had to think about it, pushing 30 years. Caught your “experimental arm work out” and have been adapting those techniques for close to a month now on other body parts. Its been great, I walk away feeling like I worked out without all the soreness that I usually get.
Its amazing how a little tweaking here and there changes things up. Now I just have to get thinking a little differently. I appreciate you input and time you put into this. Thank you.
[quote]morepain wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Teledin wrote:
Hypertrophy tease =P
I like the post explaining the perfect rep. Really highlighted one aspect of training that I never really thought about too much. I won’t be doing the I-BB thing, but I’ll be adapting aspects of it to my own training. Currently in the process of formulating a routine for my next bulk in a few months and this thread has made me go back and really think about my approach.
Really rekindled my interest with the upcoming program.
It is really our objective to teach people how to train, not how to follow a program we have written. If you can learn the basic principles we are taking about (perfect rep, activation, autoregulation) then you can apply them to almost any program.
Regarding the rep… it all starts there!!! How can we talk about advanced methods, sets manipulation and other complex variable if the most basic training unit, the rep, is not done properly?
Don’t you feel (as i do) that alot of this is experience based? For instance i have been lifting for 30 years, i can (in a pinch) get a great workout with just a pair of light dumbells, just by “feeling” the reps out and really connecting with the muscle being worked. But i can’t seem to teach that to anyone…they just have to figure it out as their mind muscle connection (for lack of a better term) becomes stronger.
[/quote]
No offense man, but explosive lifting isn’t about “feeling” the muscle; it’s about generating as much force as possible as quickly as possible. The way to replicate this with light dumbbells is to throw them for height or distance. I’m not exaggerating here.
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
therajraj wrote:
The Matt Kroc video you posted… those are perfect reps?
I haven’t looked at them with a coaching mind. But I do remember him having a lightning fast turnaround. So, yes, the quality of the rep is very high but form might not be perfect on all lifts.
Sorry, missed this link. Could someone please post?
Thanks.[/quote]
Here’s the thread with the youtube link in CTs first post.
[quote]Dampfnudel wrote:
Obviously a really fast turnaround with a heavy load is a huge stress on the tendons. did yo never have any
problems with that? on cgbp for example a fast turnaround makes my elbows almost explode.
[/quote]
I’m curious to hear CT’s opinion on your question. I’m no expert, but have read that for a split second during the turnaround point the weight shifts to the tendons which makes me leary of potential tears/injuries. Hoping CT will chime in on this…
hhmm…this makes me rethink my lifting style. Been following Waterbury’s idea of lifting as fast as possible - the intent at least. But I generally pause at the top and bottom of each lift before trying with all my might to move it with as much acceleration as I can.
Guess I’ll have to be more focused in the gym and work on that turnaround.
Did not expect this thread to be written by you CT. I really like what I have seen so far about I BB. It is definetly more of a training philosophy than a program. I have already implemented the workout nutrition aspect and switched a few other things up. I can honestly say I have gotten stronger, bigger and have a larger work capacity than ever before. Im pumped for I BB, not for the program itself, but for the principles outlined in it. I already plan on taking the ideas and developing what will work for me.
Good post, CT I feel too many people are expecting the program itself to be everything, instead of focusing on the ideas behind it.
This might be a stupid question, but are you at all worried that by telling people to have a sharp and quick turn around you could potentially be influencing people’s forms to shift toward a bouncing tendency, i.e. barbell bench, bringing the bar down quickly and trying to change direction so quickly that they end up bouncing the bar instead of utilizing their muscles to change direction?
So is it correct to say that a good rep is one that
- Uses the stretch reflex as much as possible (explosive turn around)
or - Doesn’t use the stretch reflex at all (reps from dead stop (pins, etc.))
And that you should never just pause at the bottom for a very short amount of time (using the stretch reflex a bit but not completely)?
Does this vary for push and pull? I remember for pull you recommended isometric contractions at the peak as a technique, is that still valid?
[quote]traaviz wrote:
Did not expect this thread to be written by you CT. I really like what I have seen so far about I BB. It is definetly more of a training philosophy than a program. I have already implemented the workout nutrition aspect and switched a few other things up. I can honestly say I have gotten stronger, bigger and have a larger work capacity than ever before. Im pumped for I BB, not for the program itself, but for the principles outlined in it. I already plan on taking the ideas and developing what will work for me.
Good post, CT I feel too many people are expecting the program itself to be everything, instead of focusing on the ideas behind it. [/quote]
You have already implemented the workout nutrition aspect? Where could I find this, I must have missed this.
Thanks
Coach
Have you watched how Jay Cutler do the reps? When he’s closing the set, he stops at semi-stretched point, leave a bit and reverse.
Does it make sense?
Excellent post, Thibs.
Guys, I think I’ve trained 10 times in the last four days so I’m playing catch-up on writing (I think TC may beat me with a stick), but I can still answer a few questions if anyone has any.
-Nate
Ya…how’s it going?..you guys using the protocol?..4 days for the perfect rep?..
[quote]Nate Green wrote:
Excellent post, Thibs.
Guys, I think I’ve trained 10 times in the last four days so I’m playing catch-up on writing (I think TC may beat me with a stick), but I can still answer a few questions if anyone has any.
-Nate[/quote]
Nate,
Can you take us through what you did, step-by-step, for the perfect rep? Any practical insights on exercise/bodypart selection for perfect reps?
Nate,
How do you see the above average (I wouldn’t consider most T-Nation readers average)lifter grasping the fundamentals of this program? Obviosuly Thib mentioned that you and other very knowledgable people had some learning/adapting to do, so I’m wondering how this type of thing gets propogated to the masses without losing its central concepts, whatever those might be.
Nate/CT,
Using bench press as an example. Do you employ a slight chest bounce to accelerate in the stretched position? In essence are you starting off the negative slow and controlled and then speeding it up once you get closer to your chest (say 4-5 inches or so)?