I, Bodybuilder Logs Observation

SteelyD · February 20, 2010, 6:34pm

I’m trying to understand the logs in the I,BB Training Logs.

Note: Right off the bat, I want to clarify this is not a criticism of the program. I’m just trying to understand what I’m reading.

I’ve read through about a dozen or so of the logs, mostly the ones with higher post counts as they give more insight into how long someone has been doing the program and just contains more information.

If I understand the descriptions/articles of this program, it is designed for muscle growth (ie. hypertrophy, hence the acronym HTH), and not necessarily a ‘strength’ program designed, say, to increase your bench X-pounds.

Is this a fair assumption?

If so, the next question is, why, of all the dozen or so threads I’ve read, no one has any ‘pre-program’ stats or pictures to gauge actual muscle growth? One logger says “I’ve seen significant hypertrophy after 8 days”. What does that mean?

Any ‘before’ stats I’ve seen in the logs refer to ‘poundage lifted prior to I,BB’-- which, if this is a “hypertrophy” (I honest hate using that word) program, why do poundages even matter. We’re looking for muscle growth, no?

It’s hard for me to understand what is happening with these logs without some frame of reference, which apparently if there are any, I happened to not pick any of them.

Again, not a program criticism, just trying to clear up my confusion as to what the real goal is here and how that is being measured, at least in the logs. I think the concept is interesting. Not one that I’ll be trying soon, but certainly interested in following the progress of those doing it-- It’s all but impossible, though, without some before stats/pics and progress stats/pics.

giterdone · February 20, 2010, 7:12pm

Hmmm…I had a similar thought. I suppose you could make the argument that strength = size (oh shit, not that bitch-fest again) but it is hard to gauge progress without a starting baseline.

That being said, and off topic, I have started to incorporate some of the movements. The 45 degree BB rowing from pins is awesome. It takes the stress off my lower back since I don’t need to hold the position and decelerate the bar at the bottom. My weights are slightly lower since I’m starting from a dead stop and without the benefit of some “english” to start the movement.

I did seated OH press from pins and I think those will stay. High squats from pins (Anderson squats) were out of the rotation and I put them back in earlier this week…forgot how hard they hit my quads…a keeper.

SteelyD · February 20, 2010, 7:19pm

[quote]giterdone wrote:
I suppose you could make the argument that strength = size (oh shit, not that bitch-fest again) [/quote]

That’s NOT the intention of this thread. Just nipping that in the bud.

My point is that this is (again, if I understand correctly) designed for muscle growth, which at some level should be measureable by size increase in the targeted muscles-- afterall, that’s how bodybuilders train.

There are dozens of these logs with wt/rep numbers but no visual or numerical baseline from which to measure size progress. Sure, you can infer muscle growth from increased lifts, but again, we’re bodybuilding here, not powerlifting where the goal is to increase 1RM in 3 lifts.

Vir · February 20, 2010, 8:44pm

I think it’s just a mind set of a lot of the people doing it. If a program promises fantastic results it will attract people who want fantastic results - which is no bad thing unless those results being hoped for are wholly unrealistic. These sorts of people probably aren’t happy no matter what so won’t ‘invest’ in the program and make themselves accountable to others because at the back of their minds they suspect that they won’t achieve what they hope for.

Just to clarify; I’m not dissing the program as it seems very well thought out and a lot of time and effort has gone into it, and I hope and believe it will give great results. It’s just a shame you can’t control the mindset of the people doing it to ensure more people get the results that are possible.

Unless you have the mindset, drive and self belief (along with rest, nutrition and all those other factors) in place NO program will deliver what a lot of people want. So you’ll probably not see pictures from most people.

Hopefully in about 6-12 months time or more progress pictures will begin appearing showing some real progress. At the moment I suspect a lot of people are doing it in the hope that it will be that ‘one magic program’ that suddenly turns them into Jay Cutler. Eventually these people will move onto the next new thing, and only the people with proper belief in the program will remain, which is when you’ll see the progress pics.

Professor_X · February 20, 2010, 9:22pm

Well, first you have to realize that it is a given that MOST of the people hopping on that whole philosophy are NOT advanced and probably shouldn’t be using it.

I am going to also guess that most of those NON-advanced people are the loudest and first to post “logs” of progress…just like all of those “before” pics posted in the picture forum years back with no afters.

You are right, they should have before, during and after pics if this is a bodybuilding program and their log is supposed to show all of their growth.

The fact that they aren’t should immediately tell you what kinds of people make up most of the ones creating the logs.

Therefore, the logs are mostly useless to even judge progress…because too many damn newbs and non-serious lifters will be first to toss one up.

iwong · February 20, 2010, 9:30pm

I don’t think there is a question that the IBB is designed for hypertrophy. Its just that the program was marketed a little differently from others such as the V-Diet. Whereas the V-Diet encouraged its trainees to take a whole battery of before and after measurements, IBB does not. For those who are not fully convinced about the efficacy of IBB, I think its best to take a wait and see approach.

Hopefully some of the trainees took before measurements and/or pics so that others can decide whether or not the try the program based on some sort of objective evidence. As much as I respect CT, any time someone throws around terms like “radical hypertrophy”, I’ll only believe it if I see it.

thrasher · February 20, 2010, 9:31pm

The thing I don’t understand about the IBB logs, or any logs really, is why post them online in a forum? When you’re in the gym you have a notebook or a print out of a workout and you’re writing down your numbers so you’ve got your log right there. Isn’t it twice as much work logging on and transfering every exercise and poundage to a forum?

jehovasfitness · February 20, 2010, 9:32pm

The logs (which I’ve briefly looked at), seem to be set up in a way that it makes it easy to record your workouts. Basically an online workout log, rather than a notebook.
though, I wouldn’t want to have to worry about recording it every day.

I agree, some before pics or stats would be a good idea, if these people are trying to show how the program is working for them, to the world.

Professor_X · February 20, 2010, 9:48pm

[quote]iwong wrote:
I don’t think there is a question that the IBB is designed for hypertrophy. Its just that the program was marketed a little differently from others such as the V-Diet. Whereas the V-Diet encouraged its trainees to take a whole battery of before and after measurements, IBB does not. For those who are not fully convinced about the efficacy of IBB, I think its best to take a wait and see approach.

Hopefully some of the trainees took before measurements and/or pics so that others can decide whether or not the try the program based on some sort of objective evidence. As much as I respect CT, any time someone throws around terms like “radical hypertrophy”, I’ll only believe it if I see it.[/quote]

Gee, I’m not knocking the program or supplements at all. I use MAG-10 daily and it has literally changed how I eat completely. My strength is up and that is WITH a decrease in body weight. I feel I have gained muscle in the process (especially in my arms) even though I avoid measurements taken more often than maybe once a year. I can, however, tell when my shirts get tighter around the arms even though I dropped some weight.

This isn’t about questioning the program…it is about questioning all of these people making claims when most are NOT advanced.

SteelyD · February 20, 2010, 10:29pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]iwong wrote:
I don’t think there is a question that the IBB is designed for hypertrophy. Its just that the program was marketed a little differently from others such as the V-Diet. Whereas the V-Diet encouraged its trainees to take a whole battery of before and after measurements, IBB does not. For those who are not fully convinced about the efficacy of IBB, I think its best to take a wait and see approach.

Hopefully some of the trainees took before measurements and/or pics so that others can decide whether or not the try the program based on some sort of objective evidence. As much as I respect CT, any time someone throws around terms like “radical hypertrophy”, I’ll only believe it if I see it.[/quote]

Gee, I’m not knocking the program or supplements at all. I use MAG-10 daily and it has literally changed how I eat completely. My strength is up and that is WITH a decrease in body weight. I feel I have gained muscle in the process (especially in my arms) even though I avoid measurements taken more often than maybe once a year. I can, however, tell when my shirts get tighter around the arms even though I dropped some weight.

This isn’t about questioning the program…it is about questioning all of these people making claims when most are NOT advanced.[/quote]

To reiterate what I’ve said twice and PX just re-reiterated-- I’m not criticizing, questioning, second guessing, or even doubtful about the prescribed program.

What I don’t understand is that, at least publicly, there is no baseline from which to judge progress of those who are logging in public. Maybe they’ve done this privately-- made measurements, starting weight/sizes, took pictures, etc. At this point in time, I’ve not found ONE who has posted pics saying/showing “This is me NOW”, “This is me X-Weeks into I,BB”, and at some point “This is me, X-inches bigger, Y-weeks after doing I, BB”.

The sponsors of the forums put forth a project to create a web-based logging application for people to publicly log their performance undertaking the “I, Bodybuilder HTH Program”, presumably to: 1) make it easier for people to do it, 2) show examples of people doing it to clear up questions of ‘how’ based on just reading about it, and 3) to showcase that the program works.

I would think that from a sales/marketing/promotion point of view, to attract people to the program (and hopefully purchase the accompanying supplement protocol), that NUMBER 3 is very important. However, there is absolutely NO public illustration of before after in real time.

Professor_X · February 20, 2010, 10:34pm

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]iwong wrote:
I don’t think there is a question that the IBB is designed for hypertrophy. Its just that the program was marketed a little differently from others such as the V-Diet. Whereas the V-Diet encouraged its trainees to take a whole battery of before and after measurements, IBB does not. For those who are not fully convinced about the efficacy of IBB, I think its best to take a wait and see approach.

Hopefully some of the trainees took before measurements and/or pics so that others can decide whether or not the try the program based on some sort of objective evidence. As much as I respect CT, any time someone throws around terms like “radical hypertrophy”, I’ll only believe it if I see it.[/quote]

Gee, I’m not knocking the program or supplements at all. I use MAG-10 daily and it has literally changed how I eat completely. My strength is up and that is WITH a decrease in body weight. I feel I have gained muscle in the process (especially in my arms) even though I avoid measurements taken more often than maybe once a year. I can, however, tell when my shirts get tighter around the arms even though I dropped some weight.

This isn’t about questioning the program…it is about questioning all of these people making claims when most are NOT advanced.[/quote]

To reiterate what I’ve said twice and PX just re-reiterated-- I’m not criticizing, questioning, second guessing, or even doubtful about the prescribed program.

What I don’t understand is that, at least publicly, there is no baseline from which to judge progress of those who are logging in public. Maybe they’ve done this privately-- made measurements, starting weight/sizes, took pictures, etc. At this point in time, I’ve not found ONE who has posted pics saying/showing “This is me NOW”, “This is me X-Weeks into I,BB”, and at some point “This is me, X-inches bigger, Y-weeks after doing I, BB”.

The sponsors of the forums put forth a project to create a web-based logging application for people to publicly log their performance undertaking the “I, Bodybuilder HTH Program”, presumably to: 1) make it easier for people to do it, 2) show examples of people doing it to clear up questions of ‘how’ based on just reading about it, and 3) to showcase that the program works.

I would think that from a sales/marketing/promotion point of view, to attract people to the program (and hopefully purchase the accompanying supplement protocol), that NUMBER 3 is very important. However, there is absolutely NO public illustration of before after in real time.
[/quote]

While I do agree on some level, you have direct access to several people who have been using these products for several months now and who are very serious. I mean, Stu alone has competed, works full time and has also been using the products.

Why, since we KNOW most are not advanced, would you worry about their progress so much?

jehovasfitness · February 20, 2010, 10:37pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why, since we KNOW most are not advanced, would you worry about their progress so much?
[/quote]

Stu is the only one that has been posting progress pics AFAIK

jehovasfitness · February 20, 2010, 10:38pm

that and maybe SteelyD just wants to see some more 1/2 nekkid guys, what’s wrong with that… what I say

SteelyD · February 20, 2010, 10:47pm

[quote]thrasher wrote:
The thing I don’t understand about the IBB logs, or any logs really, is why post them online in a forum? When you’re in the gym you have a notebook or a print out of a workout and you’re writing down your numbers so you’ve got your log right there. Isn’t it twice as much work logging on and transfering every exercise and poundage to a forum?[/quote]

I have a current log in the “Over 35” forum (One Bourbon, One Squat, One Beer). I’ve logged almost every workout and a fair bit of my nutrition for almost 2 years now.

Why?

It allows me to interact with a broad spectrum of people over a large geographic area who have years more experience than me under the iron. I get feedback, solicited or not, in real time by people who have valueable advice, some of which I can’t get in my own gym because I’m out performing 90% of the people in my gym(s). For example, I post heavy squats/bench/deadlift/rows/rackpulls and Mauraudermeat, a record holding sponsored P/L athlete tells me I need to tuck my elbows, or retract my scaps, or breathe or whatever-- that’s valuable.
It allows people to discuss why you use a particular lift or not and how it did/didn’t work for them.
It’s educational to people reading the logs who are looking to accomplish the same goals as you. I’ve had dozens and dozens of PM’s from people following my log asking questions, giving advice (solicited or not), praising/criticizing (you look great, you’re too fat, etc, lol). They’ve asked advice— which I take very seriously because I don’t feel qualified to give advice beyond what I’ve done for myself in the context of my life (that’s why I don’t spew advice in the BB forum). Other people have much more experience and I’m just here to learn.

If my log helps someone, I’m humbled and honored.

It adds just a small bit of responsibility and accountability that I’m working toward a goal in the public eye and people are watching and taking notes. I’ve committed now, and I rarely fail at my goals (I’ve got an addictive personality that way to the dismay of my family).

I started my first log with my fatass pictures and then after I lost 70 pounds and where I started my little ‘bulk’ project. Hundreds of posts replete with measurements, progress pictures, form check videos, nutrition information, random thoughts good/bad, attitude du jour, and some thoughts and anecdotes about what I think works (for me) and what doesn’t— THAT’S WHAT A PUBLIC LOG SHOULD BE. I’m accountable for that.

PX often talks about people not posting pics. I know I’m not one of those people-- my progress pics are in several threads besides my log (most recently in the 19" thread). Without posting my arms at 14.25 inches, that progress pic (fat or not) has no meaning or context.

I can take and seek constructive criticism from those more experienced and larger than me. It would be silly not to.

I guess the point I’m making is someone can look at my log over what, 18 months and SEE that what I’m doing daily has resulted in a noticeable transformation. The I, BB logs are not providing that context. My message isn’t negative, I’m giving feedback as to how to make them more valuable because I want to see it work and not be skeptical.

SteelyD · February 20, 2010, 10:54pm