alright, i dont know whats going wrong. The past 2 weeks my bench has been complete crap. I dont know whats wrong. I used to use a pretty narrow grip, and 2 days ago i moved it out so that my middle finger was on the rings, and i felt okay, but then couldnt even get 215. is that too far out? or is it natural to do less when i switch up my grip.
Im getting tired of this. A few months back i had been doing a 3 day split with dead, squat and bench once each week. both my squat and dead went up consitently, but my bench stalled. Now its stalling again using westside. Any thoughts on how to fix this?
all help would be GREATLY appreciated
I would train the bench with a closer grip than your power grip, but where is your bench stalling? Off the chest? Midway?
But i thought to push more weight a wider grip was advised?
I keep getting stuck either right off the chest, or maybe 6 inches off. lockout isnt ever a problem.
I think i may have discovered my problem however. Since starting this split, instead of a DE day, Ive been doing 3 sets to failure on bench, as advised by Joe Defranco in “Westside For Skinny Bastards.” I now feel that that may be my problem. With no speed work, the bar is moving too slow. Also, with doing 3 sets to failure my chest is normally shot, and if i were to do a DE bench day, i would not be as sore, and so more ready on my ME day. Is this logic sound, if I incorporate a DE day instead of a high reps day will my bench stop stagnating?
Good thinking dirk…I’m proud of you my man…your begining ot figure this shit out…speed is key to a good strong raw bench get your self a set of mini bands and watch your bench blow up…proud of you youngin…bm
thanks bm.
so for my speed days, how does this work as a sample?
DE upper- bench 8x3, push-jerk 5x3, supplemental work
DE lower- clean 4x3, squat 8x2, dead 6x1, hamstring work, grip
Hows that look? I took a page out of an article posted by snippdawg, with using some oly lifts on DE days (using light weight 70% or so), being as i think this will help also my explosion to translate into game speed.
personally i would get rid of the push jerks as you play football and shoulder health is crucial and add in soem heavy tricep work…like 4-5 board press or 4-6 inch rack lockouts for 5 sets of 3 reps or 5x5…
on the speed squat day each week alternate between the cleans and pulls…
so week 1 - speed squats and speed pulls
week 2- speed squats and speed cleans…
BM with your athletes what kind of stance do you use on DE box squats. I think an oly-width stance would be more beneficial since it would hit the quads more which are very important for sprints over 0-20yards. Your thoughts?
thanks once again bm. any links to where i can find a video of rack lockouts for my tri’s?
Also, should i do something like decline bench after speed bench for high rep sets? so my DE day would look like.
speed bench 10x3
decline 4x12
tris
shoulders 3x12
bi’s
lastly, what would you suggest to do for cleans? I will do 6x1 for deads when i do them on DE days, but what would a good set/rep scheme be for cleans?
[quote]FootSoldier wrote:
BM with your athletes what kind of stance do you use on DE box squats. I think an oly-width stance would be more beneficial since it would hit the quads more which are very important for sprints over 0-20yards. Your thoughts?[/quote]
I use them all…I use a tier system where we usually squat twice a week so once a week we use a wide stance and the other we use a oly stance…one of the best leg builders for a athlete is close stance safety squat bar 8 - 10 inch box squats…remember athletes need ot build the entire body…bm
[quote]BigDirk wrote:
thanks once again bm. any links to where i can find a video of rack lockouts for my tri’s?
Also, should i do something like decline bench after speed bench for high rep sets? so my DE day would look like.
speed bench 10x3
decline 4x12
tris
shoulders 3x12
bi’s
lastly, what would you suggest to do for cleans? I will do 6x1 for deads when i do them on DE days, but what would a good set/rep scheme be for cleans?[/quote]
rack lock outs are very easy…set the bar in a power rack on the safety pins so all you have to do is push 4-6 inches and work up to a heavy triple great tricep exersice…declines are great but i think they would be best served in your max effort bench rotation…for cleans do 6x1 every other speed squat day…you can also do them as your max effort squat movement once a month…you could also do them for triples after your max eff squats at about 70% for 3x3…bm
thanks bm
for rack lockouts, what type of grip is best? Same as my normal bench grip?
So if i use declines in my ME rotation, what else should i do on my DE day? is it enough to do bench, lockouts, some form of shoulders, and bi’s on DE day, or should i do another excersize for my chest?
use any grip your comfortable with for rack lock outs… i use pinky on the ring grip for em…for your dyanmic bench day…thats all you need if you want to add in a chest movement i would add in no more than 2 sets of dumbell press for 8-10 reps…bm
bm, is pinky on the rings what you use when you do normal bench? Im not sure the grip i should use
I just read your “misconceptions” post. Ive been having trouble lately getting the bar off the chest. So instead of the 2x8-10 dumbell press, would 5x5 declines work, followed by rack lockouts?
Also, on my ME lower day, ive been doing the main excersize, then ill do 3x3 for cleans, 4x8 for hams, then i was thinking of doing something like 3x10 lunges. Are the lunges necessary/ beneficial?
add the declines after either you max eff or speed work as the first asseccory move on the day you dont do declines to the rack lock outs…so for example
max eff bench
- max eff move
- rack lock outs 3x3
- lats
- upper back
speed bench
- dyanmic bench
- declines
- lats
- upper back
as for grip you have to remember that my sport in powerlifting…so i use the maximal widest grip usually for the shortest stroke to lift the most weight…but when i train my triceps such as high boards and lock outs i use a pinky on the ring grip to hiy my tris more…but for things like declines orother bottom end moves i like ot get out wide to learn to inginitiate speed of the chest with my pecs and then squezze the bar apart to transfer the weight to my tris wich are 10x stronger than my pecs…bm
i gotcha bm…ive been doing inclines after my ME movement, but my problem lies more in getting it off the chest. You think declines would be better served after them then?
Also, seeing as pushing movements arent so good for the shoulders, what should i do for them?
personally i dont think you should do much if any shoulder work…the time would be best spent on the upper back, traps, lats ect…if i was you i would think God you have a good healthy set of shoulders while playing football and keep the shoulder work to rotator cuff work and high rep raises to keep them healthy…bm
bm- i remember on your personal log that you do some form of upper back/lat workout basically every workout. The guys at elitefit seem to do them after bench days. The way i was gonna set my split up, i would just have more time to do back/traps on my lower body days. Would that be ok, or would it hurt me in my upper body days?
The reason i do so much upper back work is because im only 22 and my upper back is my weak point in my bench…knowing all the guys at elite and have meet them in person a million times i will tell you this much there upper backs and traps are the size of texas…they have the upper back and traps i want lol…they told me if i want a big upper back work it every day so for the last year thats what i have done and lets say my upper back has become the size of ohio but not yet texas lol…do you need ot do as much upper back work as me ??..probally no…i think twice a week would be good…if i was you i would spend 2 days working the lats and the other 2 working the traps and rear delts…plus a big upper back and traps are cool…lol…
bm could you give me some good excersizes for both lats and traps/delts?
Also, on ME lower days, mine would include my ME movement, 3x3 cleans, some form of hamstring work, then upper back and grip. My question is this: Again many of the guys on elitefit use something like lunges or a unilateral movement for their legs also. Would something like this be advised?
[quote]BigDirk wrote:
bm could you give me some good excersizes for both lats and traps/delts?
Also, on ME lower days, mine would include my ME movement, 3x3 cleans, some form of hamstring work, then upper back and grip. My question is this: Again many of the guys on elitefit use something like lunges or a unilateral movement for their legs also. Would something like this be advised?[/quote]
there is a couple things here you could do you could do body weight lunges and body weight 1 leg squats in your warmup or you could once a month replace the hamstring movement with lunges…i dont think there something thats needed eveyr work out at your age…if it was me i would add them in as a warm up do walking lunges for 2 sets of 20 reps before your work out with just bodyweight along witha set or two for 8-10 reps of body weight 1 leg squats add in some jumping jack and burpies and you will have agreat active -gpp warmup…
upper back lat and tap moves…
rear delt flys
chest supported rows
dumbell rows
face pulls
chins
lat pull downs all handles
dumbell shurgs
seated rows
pec deck reverse flys
seated low prone row
seated dumbell cleans
barbell row