I’m trying to put the finishing touches on my routine, a few questions first.
I’m using a Westside split. The split that is advocated is a Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun split. My only concern with this is that I would be doing my DE lower on Fri, and only have 2 days before mon and ME lower. Is this ample time in which to recuperate?
Also on Westside. On my ME upper days, I have flat benched for the past couple of weeks. I’ve read many articles, and many workout logs in which they advocated many sets before the ME attempt. I’ve been working up to a 3 rep max, and it seems that when i have less work sets, (ie 5 or less) I am able to put up more weight than with more than 5 sets. Any thoughts on why this must be and what i should do?
If possible, try to get three days between M>E. and D.E.
On the second question, the reason you can’t put up heavier weights with more sets is because you are not conditioned to the volume yet. Volume is very important in the “Westside” method. This is the mistake most people make on an max exercise. Lets say your best 2 board press is 250 because you are a beginner. Some people will go this way:
135x3
185x3
205x1
225x1 and then attempt a P.R.
where you should be more like this:
barx10
95x10
95x5
135x5
165x3
185x3
205x3 and so on.
You must look to constantly try to increase your volume and a thorough warm up is part of it. This is why some people will say “hes not in shape to lift weights” Nothing makes me laugh more than seeing some kid whos max bench is 195, walk up to the bench and start out right away with 135. Im not that great of a bencher (right now Im hittin 445) but I still start with just the bar and then 95lbs.
If you want to get those 4 training days in a week, then 2 workouts have to be on consecutive days. Just dont put the two M.E. days back to back.
Now lets say that you have a 230 bench and you were going to bench, I would go:
45x10
95x5
95x5
135x5
155x3
175x3
195x1
210x1
then go for a p.r.
that way you will have 2-3 lifts over 90% of you 1RM. This is for training, if you are talking about for a competition, then you just have to tinker with it and find whats best for you. Just get the volume and make sure that 2-3 lifts are over 90%. Remember Prilepin’s chart, it is your friend.
barbender, for the sample, if I was going for 230, isnt that a kind of large jump? My last set is at 210, then jumping to 230 is more than the gap from 195 to 210. is that right?
When working up I usually end up with between 11 and 15 total sets with 3 singles above 90% if you read some of the articles on volume over at elitefts you will see they end up with around 11-12, check out the periodization bible 2 here by Dave Tate…also the M,W,F,S template is the one used by WS and should give you ample time to recover, but if on your mon me day your a little off it could mean you are pushing it too hard on fri or sun de day and vice versa. This is one of the c & b’s built in to WS. Louie uses this template because it gives you the three day rest between training methods; you have three days between me sq and de sq, and three between me bp and de bp.
Big Dirk
Yep 20lbs+ increase to attempt a PR when your bench is 230 is a bit much in my opinion. I normally move up in 5kg(~10lb) then 2.5kg (~5lb) steps as I close in on my PR 300lb. You can feel when it starts to get real heavy. So from 210 you might want to go 220,225,230,235 for singles.
You must find 90% of your 1RM because you want to do 2-3 lifts at or over 90%. Once you start varying from that, it becomes counterproductive. Research how Louie manipulated Prilepin’s chart for powerlifting.
Alright, so would a mon- ME lower; wed- ME upper; Thurs- DE lower; Sat- DE upper work? For me, time to rest between DE and ME is more important, as i want to be as ready as i can be for the most painful day. Is that logic flawed?
Yeah I think that could work. The only way you will know is if you give it a shot. The only problem you may run into is trying to train the same trait that close together, but that shouldn’t be a problem. If it does become a problem, then change it. That is the great thing about conjugated periodization. It is very easy to design a template to fit your needs. People sometimes dont understand that they are not “Westside” yet they try to do everything the exact same as Westside, which goes against everything that the Westside method and Conjuagated periodization stands for. This is do to the fact that in this country people still confuse bodybuilding protocols with athletic training.
snippdawg- having the weekends off from lifting is actually a big help as my school only has lifting hours during the week. two questions about that splt though.
How bad would it be to do the 2 ME on mon and tues. I suppose i would be drained from a ME lower when i were to do my ME upper, but ive always done the most intense workouts at the beginning of the week.
If i were to use this split, where would the best places be to run for my 2 days in which i shall be running?
[quote]creed wrote:
Big Dirk
Yep 20lbs+ increase to attempt a PR when your bench is 230 is a bit much in my opinion. I normally move up in 5kg(~10lb) then 2.5kg (~5lb) steps as I close in on my PR 300lb. You can feel when it starts to get real heavy. So from 210 you might want to go 220,225,230,235 for singles.[/quote]
Hmm… this might be heretical to some but I must say it. If you are doing ME work to get strong, you would warm-up in this way (barxa lot, 95x5, 135x5-155x3-185x3-205x1-225x2-235x1 PR). However, if you are trying to get a PR, I would do this: (barx a lot, 95x5, 135x5, 185x3, 225x1, PR). If you look at the training logs on elitefts, this is what they actually do in their ME training. Also, not that anyone cares, but this is the way they ALWAYS do it at Iron Island Gym (hardcore gym in NY that trains westside).
That being said, beginners would be better off using a lot more sets as first described, because havent developed confidence in pushing maximal weights yet, and also arent sure of what weights they can do. The you said to train (big dirk) is probably too slow of a weight change though, your CNS would burnout at a weight you could have done had you used less sets. 20 llbs isnt too big of a jump for a 230 llb bencher.
Remember, the purpose of he ME exercise is to test your strength progression, teach you to strain as well as to build some absolute strength and coordination. At southside barbell on ME days, we are always trying for a PR unless we are performing triples or repitition work. Overall though, the assistance exercises will get you strong, ME work is a test that prepares you for handling heavy weight.
Some questions regarding weight progression on ME days.
I train according to the following principles:
Aim for 10-15 sets
If I’m doing singles, get 3 singles at or over 90% of 1RM
Start out light (lets say the bar). That gives me, 1x10 @45, 2x5-7 @95, 2x3 @ 135, 1x3 @ 155, 1x2 @ 175 …go for 3-4 sets of singles.
I try to increase the weight by 5-10% when I get to the triples. I’m not sure if this is consistent with Prilepin’s chart.
[quote]OGuard wrote:
Remember, the purpose of he ME exercise is to test your strength progression, teach you to strain as well as to build some absolute strength and coordination. At southside barbell on ME days, we are always trying for a PR unless we are performing triples or repitition work. Overall though, the assistance exercises will get you strong, ME work is a test that prepares you for handling heavy weight.[/quote]
well now some of the info is contradicting with other info. OGuard and RepubCarrier, you say to use less sets, but others say to do 3 singles of 90%1RM. If i were to do that, it would look something like this
45x10
95x5
95x5
135x5
155x3
175x3
195x(1 or 3 im not sure)
205x(1 or 3 not sure)
215x1 (90%1RM)
225x1
230x1
The thing with this is that 155x3 is so easy its laughable, and i can do 205x3, but should i if im reaching for the biggest weight. Any thoughts on these sets for a ME bench day?
You guys are thinking way way way to much…like oguard said all max effort work is about is straining under maximal loads and testing corurage…how you get there really is very personal…one of my training partners who benches over 500 at 19 years old takes about 20 sets to get to his max set he feels he needs this much warmup and it works for him…im diffirent i like to take 50-90 pound jumps for about 12 sets…this is all very very personal…just keep doing triples until you cant perform triples at this point go for a max single…keep it simple baby…bm
That was always my thought too…the first few sets are so easy that it seems barely worth doing. Would it be wrong to add a few more reps in those early sets? Something like this…
Bar (45lbs) x 20
110lbs x 15
135lbs x 10
185 x 5
185 x 5
230 x 3
240 x 3
250 x 3
265 x 3
275 x 1
285 x 1
295 x 1
305 x 1