Question About ME Upper Body Work

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Hey fellas, I just got a quick question to get out there. I am new to powerlifting and the style of training you guys are doing. I am going to be starting something like wsbb with an ME day and a Dynamic day. My question comes about regarding ME upper body day and I am curious if the bench press (and variations) are interchangeable with the overhead press (and its variations).
so for example,

ME Upper
wk 1-3
Floor Press 1rm

wk 4-6
Overhead Press 1rm

wk 7-9
Pin Press 1rm

wk 10-12
Push Press 1rm

Obviously it can be structured differently but I am curious about this because I want to add strength on my Overhead Press and my Bench, but i dont want to be goin in circles going nowhere.

BTW my apologies for the awkward wording of this question I am in a rush :S

2

Hi, there!

Just a suggestion:

Why don’t you do any Bench-Press-Variation (BP, CGBP, Floor-Press) on your ME-Day and on your DE-Day, after your speed-bench, any OH-Press-Variation (MP’s, Push-Press, Partial-OH-Press)?

Well, of course it depends on if you could manage that load of heavy pressing two-days a week.
But you don’t have to be afraid that one exercise is lagging behind the other.

Greetz,
C.

3

if your a begginer…better ditch the DE days…change it for a day of high rep work…

4

I wouldn’t do overhead work for ME unless you do strongman where there are overhead events. I’d stick to bench variations for ME, then do overhead work as an accessory for sets of 5-12 reps. If you’re new, then you only need to rotate 4-5 exercises for ME and you’ll set PRs each time. You want to pick exercises that focus on where you’re weakest at in the lift.

5

Thanks for the replies guys. So I decided that I would stick to bench press + variations on ME Upper body day and have a rotation @2wks for each (pin-press,floor press, incline pin-press, towel-press). I will work shoulders as auxiliary lifts on ME day rotating between DB Shoulder Press and DB Incline Press (4x6-8) following some more assistance stuff for shoulders and back after.

So for the week this is what I have so far.

Monday-ME Upper body

Tuesday-Speed Work (I am training for football btw)

Wednesday-ME Lower body

Thursday-Speed Work + GPP

Friday-Repetition/Bodybuilding Day (bringing up lagging body parts)
consists of 5-6 exercises 4-5 sets each ranging from 8-10,10-15, Failure, etc…

Saturday-GPP

Sunday-A greatly appreciated rest.

What do you guys think?

6

Your exercise selection seems a bit off imo. You have 3 exercises that emphasize static overcome by dynamic strength, which isn’t so bad, except you’re not training many other types of “strength” As far as football goes I would exchange in close grip bench for the pin press, and regular incline presses for the incline pin press. All that pin pressing will reek havoc on your joints in the long run. Pin presses aren’t a bad exercise, but your shoulders get beat up enough w/ football, why keep beating them up?

7

[quote]geko6 wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys. So I decided that I would stick to bench press + variations on ME Upper body day and have a rotation @2wks for each (pin-press,floor press, incline pin-press, towel-press). I will work shoulders as auxiliary lifts on ME day rotating between DB Shoulder Press and DB Incline Press (4x6-8) following some more assistance stuff for shoulders and back after.

So for the week this is what I have so far.

Monday-ME Upper body

Tuesday-Speed Work (I am training for football btw)

Wednesday-ME Lower body

Thursday-Speed Work + GPP

Friday-Repetition/Bodybuilding Day (bringing up lagging body parts)
consists of 5-6 exercises 4-5 sets each ranging from 8-10,10-15, Failure, etc…

Saturday-GPP

Sunday-A greatly appreciated rest.

What do you guys think?
[/quote]

Is your lockout a big sticking point? cause that is how your ME upper body cycle seems to be set up like. Also be careful not to hit your shoulders too hard, it looks like you are gonna give them a beating. You might want to keep the reps high, 10-15, on direct shoulder work and worry about getting some blood in them and not so much going for a 5-8rm or something.

Westside principles will tell you not to hammer your accessories too hard after ME work, because youll just get burnt out. What i do is; pick one “main” accessory movement that you hit 4x6-8 on and the rest do more like “pumping” sets. (5x10-15 or something)

8

Also could you define speed work? GPP?

and what are you doing for ME lower body?

also did you scrap the idea of a dynamic day and switch to ws4sb?

9

thanks for the posts. I should tone it down on the shoulders, its just my bodybuilding mindframe. I chose my exercises based on what some of the guys around my gym thought. I’m gonna think over the exercises some more.

My ME lower body work is a lot simpler, I am rotating Squat, Deadlift, Front Squat, and Power Clean again @2wks for each. So for ex.

1.Squat work up to 1rm
2.Lunge matrix 5x10-15
3.Torso-Drops 5x8
4.Hypers 3x10-20

My speed work is based around plyometrics drills (jumps,sprints,ladder,etc.) I do a handful of exercises and increase the volume closer to the season. I don’t focus on actual run technique, just on moving my body as quickly and lightly as possible.

GPP is something that is new to me and it will consist of sled work, pushing my car, tire flips, sandbags, etc…

I was debating over the bb day and dynamic day and took this route after zombiec’s post, but now i’m not sure if he thought I was new to the gym entirely rather than to powerlifting training.

10

[quote]WalkingGunShow wrote:

Is your lockout a big sticking point? cause that is how your ME upper body cycle seems to be set up like. Also be careful not to hit your shoulders too hard, it looks like you are gonna give them a beating. You might want to keep the reps high, 10-15, on direct shoulder work and worry about getting some blood in them and not so much going for a 5-8rm or something.

Westside principles will tell you not to hammer your accessories too hard after ME work, because youll just get burnt out. What i do is; pick one “main” accessory movement that you hit 4x6-8 on and the rest do more like “pumping” sets. (5x10-15 or something)
[/quote]

I probably should have been more specific too, the db press and military press are rotated with every 2wk ME cycle. it would be ME lift followed by db press 4-5x6-8 then extra shoulder work like rear/later raises for reps.

11

As far as Dynamic effort goes, do you plan on ever competing? If its only for football, just do the rep day. Westside for skinny bastards is pretty much what Joe DeFranco uses for all of his pro and soon to be pro football players. For example, Brian Cushing

As far as your should work goes, just rotate it like you said. When your not working your shoulders i would replace with a direct chest exercise or even some close grip benching.

Do you have access to chains, bands, or something you can box squat off of?

Also i wouldnt really do power cleans as a ME movement, i would just do some sets before you deadlift day. Have you ever done good mornings? Those would be great to work in. If your worried about hurting your back, do them off of pins.

Also how heavy is the tire you will be using, make sure its a light one or your will be too beat up to train legs, i know this from experience, we have a 900lbs+ tire, a 650 and a 250. 250-300 is GPP work, too much above that and it should be used as ME work.

For your upper body ME work, you could through in a “somewhat” Close Grip Bench, meaning pinky on the ring or just inside of it, currently you have a lot of lockout work in there.

12

What position do you play? Is your main goal to gain size, get stronger, get faster? You need to prioritize that a little bit before you can figure out the most effective way to train.

13

What position do you play? Is your main goal to gain size, strength, or speed? That’ll help you prioritize your training.

14

I play defensive tackle, right now i’m sitting at 6’3 280lbs. Size, strength and speed are all in mind. I want to put on 5-10 more lbs clean, mostly on my legs, arms, lateral and rear delts. I definitely want to get more strength in the big 3. And of course speed, I want to get quicker and more explosive, not necessarily faster.

That being said I took a look at ws4sb and some of the comments and revamped the whole thing. So i now have 4 days a week in the gym and 1 field day.

Monday-ME Upper
Incline,board press,close-grip,floor press
I added 2 sets of rep out with max reps (so probably 225xmax work)
assistance for back,traps,rear-delt,bi’s 3-4 sets higher reps

Tuesday-Dynamic Lower
I’ll do 1-2 jumps for 1-3 reps 6-8 sets
I added OLY lifts here that i alternate between power clean, hang clean, power snatch, hang snatch and I will do 3-4 sets x 3 reps at about 60-70% and will focus on lifting as fast as i can.

Thursday-Dynamic Upper
I threw in speed bench alternating between flat and incline using wide,regular, and close grips 10x3 @50%-60%
then more assistance work for back, traps, lateral delt, and tri’s 3-4 sets higher reps.
I’ll then finish up with some quad, hamstring, and ab work.

Friday-ME Lower
Back Squat, Deadlift, Front Squat, Box Squat
assistance for quads, hamstrings, low back, ab work and a conditioning set i.e. farmers walks.

Saturday-GPP/Sport Specific
tire-flips,pushing car, sled work, ladders, position drills.

OK, im pretty confident with this one lemme know wat u guys think.

15

I play defensive tackle, right now i’m sitting at 6’3 280lbs. Size, strength and speed are all in mind. I want to put on 5-10 more lbs clean, mostly on my legs, arms, lateral and rear delts. I definitely want to get more strength in the big 3. And of course speed, I want to get quicker and more explosive, not necessarily faster.

That being said I took a look at ws4sb and some of the comments and revamped the whole thing. So i now have 4 days a week in the gym and 1 field day.

Monday-ME Upper
Incline,board press,close-grip,floor press
I added 2 sets of rep out with max reps (so probably 225xmax work)
assistance for back,traps,rear-delt,bi’s 3-4 sets higher reps

Tuesday-Dynamic Lower
I’ll do 1-2 jumps for 1-3 reps 6-8 sets
I added OLY lifts here that i alternate between power clean, hang clean, power snatch, hang snatch and I will do 3-4 sets x 3 reps at about 60-70% and will focus on lifting as fast as i can.

Thursday-Dynamic Upper
I threw in speed bench alternating between flat and incline using wide,regular, and close grips 10x3 @50%-60%
then more assistance work for back, traps, lateral delt, and tri’s 3-4 sets higher reps.
I’ll then finish up with some quad, hamstring, and ab work.

Friday-ME Lower
Back Squat, Deadlift, Front Squat, Box Squat
assistance for quads, hamstrings, low back, ab work and a conditioning set i.e. farmers walks.

Saturday-GPP/Sport Specific
tire-flips,pushing car, sled work, ladders, position drills.

OK, im pretty confident with this one lemme know wat u guys think.

16

Don’t fully rep out on the Monday sets. Leave 2-3 reps left in the tank on each set. Completely going to failure is just going to beat you up and not provide much benefit for the harm it does to your recovery.

I wouldn’t do the extra leg work on Thursday. Keep your legs fresh for Friday.

Do you have access to bands and chains? I’d use them on DE lower day and do box squats and speed deads. That DE work will will make you more explosive and increase your max box jump more than ME work will. You can do the jumps before or after the DE squats/deads depending on the intensity of them (which should vary each week).

Some people say box jumps are mostly genetic, and you can’t increase by more than 10%. That’s pure BS. Becky jumped 24" when she started training with us, and now she can jump 34". That’s a huge increase. Since we are powerlifters, we don’t even do box jumps that often. The increase was due to squatting and deadlifting with bands/chains for speed work. Louie Simmons says if you can jump to a 20" box with 140 lbs then you’re explosive. I’d done it for 3 sets of 5. It’s mostly from deadlifting for speed.

17

Thanks for the suggestions, this is really coming along. I’m trying to get some PL bands i might order off amazon. I have yet to find a gym around town or anywhere worth a drive that has over 110 dumbbells, let alone bands or chains.

On another note, should the assistance work be rotated with every new ME lift, or should i ride it out longer?

18

You can probably rotate the assistance stuff every 3 weeks to start. Then rotate it more often when you feel like your progress is stalling. I think sometimes people get too hung up on rotating stuff. If something is working, then keep doing it until it stops working.

19

Sounds good thanks for all the help, can’t wait to get into it!

20

[quote]Wild_Iron_Gym wrote:
Don’t fully rep out on the Monday sets. Leave 2-3 reps left in the tank on each set. Completely going to failure is just going to beat you up and not provide much benefit for the harm it does to your recovery.

I wouldn’t do the extra leg work on Thursday. Keep your legs fresh for Friday.

Do you have access to bands and chains? I’d use them on DE lower day and do box squats and speed deads. That DE work will will make you more explosive and increase your max box jump more than ME work will. You can do the jumps before or after the DE squats/deads depending on the intensity of them (which should vary each week).

Some people say box jumps are mostly genetic, and you can’t increase by more than 10%. That’s pure BS. Becky jumped 24" when she started training with us, and now she can jump 34". That’s a huge increase. Since we are powerlifters, we don’t even do box jumps that often. The increase was due to squatting and deadlifting with bands/chains for speed work. Louie Simmons says if you can jump to a 20" box with 140 lbs then you’re explosive. I’d done it for 3 sets of 5. It’s mostly from deadlifting for speed. [/quote]

I agree with everything said here.

Also, i would like to note that this is a great thread, especially for football player that need to stay in shape and get their speed and power maxed out. And this can be performed in pretty much any gym, minus the strongman stuff.