Trivium's Quest to 4/3/5 (Part 2)

[quote]csulli wrote:
Hey seems like you’re having a rough patch in your lifting; I really hate to see that man. I’m just gonna throw some shit out there, and hopefully some of it might help you in some way.

I haven’t seen much form talk. Video your lifts and post some of them up and go into some detail on how your form is going on each. What is your bench form like? I do notice you have trouble with the lockout on deadlifts (just like me). What’s your deadlift form like?

It does look like you miss reps too often. It doesn’t really make sense to me why missing reps is so bad, because I always though that just meant you were giving 100% effort. But you’ll just have to trust me and take it from people a lot stronger than us that it’s bad. Ed Coan would set up his meet cycles like 14 weeks out and never miss a single lift going into the meet. If you ask some of the strongest raw lifters out there today how many lifts they’ve missed in training in the last year, I guarantee they could count them on one hand (I think Brandon Lilly said like 2 in an entire year of training). This includes rep maxes and everything. Again, I know it seems like this would just stress your muscles more and make them stronger, but all sources seem to indicate that the negatives outweigh any positives. It is very taxing on your body and perhaps even worse, you are basically practicing failure. You can feel when you’re on your last rep. Don’t try to gut out more than you can successfully complete.

I notice you do the BBB style template where you train the complementary main lift with sets of 10 after the heavier lift sets. Have you ever done it with the same lift each day? Like doing your squats and then BBB squats and bench followed by BBB bench or even some other template all together. I always felt better hitting all legs on one day, all back on one day, etc. rather than mixing it up. Just something to try maybe if you wanted to experiment a little bit. You could also experiment with some different accessory lifts. Pause squats, RDL’s, close grip bench, incline bench, and dips are fantastic.

I think the most important thing by far though is having the right attitude. Seems like your spirit has been a bit drained. Trust your body’s ability and lift like a savage. Fuck your sleep, fuck your drinking, fuck what you ate, fuck if you lost weight (just lift at 198 anyway), if your diet and sleep are shit, it’s not optimal, but that doesn’t mean you need to beat yourself down about it. All of these things are mentally draining you and causing stress and weakness in your body. Just say fuck it, I’m strong and I’m going to go smash some weight. Your body can go without sleep. It can go with subpar nutrition. I think the fact that you get in a bit of a mental rut over this stuff is just as bad or worse as having bad sleep and diet in the first place. More important than your program or your diet or your nutrition is your attitude. Attack the weight like a goddamn animal. I hope I don’t get flamed too badly for saying that lol. I’m not saying it’s okay to have horrible sleep and diet, but if your sleep and diet has been horrible, stressing yourself out over it isn’t going to help shit. Your body is a powerful machine and it can perform if you make it.

Think about that before every set. Don’t ever go through the motions, and don’t ever talk yourself out of lifting intensely because of how weak or sore your body is trying to convince you that you are. I’m guilty of it all the time, but I’m trying to get better as well. You can lay there and do 3 sets of 10 on chest supported rows and that’s fine. But look at Chuck Vogelpohl. When he does 3 sets of 10 on chest supported rows he pulls on it so savagely that the entire front of the apparatus comes off the ground like 2 inches every rep. On paper it’ll look the same, but believe me there’s a huge difference.

Anyway, just a wall of text for some food for thought.[/quote]

I just wish that I had someone just tell me what to do. I dont know how to not miss lifts and progress constantly. I feel like eventually, I am going to miss. I feel like it is inevitable. I have no problem doing it, but I get so carried away with the progress portion of everything, it gets nuts sometimes. As soon as I get a plan down, I am going to deload and hit it again as hard as I can without burning out again. Check out my thread in the PL forum if you haven’t already.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/trivium#myForums/thread/5638905/

Well you’re being proactive so thats good. I think your 531 plan looks fine, but I agree with the advice rock gave you.

Yesterday’s lift. The gym is closed on Sundays now.

Press
5x45
5x95
5x110
9x125 (10 lbs off my pr, but I didn’t fail, so…)

Pull ups
10/9/7/6/7 (Really looked like 8/8/7/6/7 due to me kicking a bit at the top.)

Bench Press
135 for sets of 15/15/10/10

Face Pull
140 for sets of 10/10/10

45 Degree Rear lateral (using a bench)
15 lb dumbbells for 10/10/10

Seated Rear lateral
15 lbs for 10

Curls
60 lbs for sets of 10/10/10/10

In and out in an hour and a half. I was distracted for a bit too. Weighed in at 203-ish (202 something before workout, 203 something after). I didn’t eat breakfast, and I normally lift at 9 PM, so that is why I weighed less. I didn’t fail my 5/3/1 set this time, and I didn’t fail any reps on the assistance either. I didn’t feel like I had to grind as much today. I didn’t like the 45 degree rear laterals on a bench as much as the seated rear laterals, so I will just stick with the rear laterals from now on.

I have decided to not change many of the exercises in my program just yet. I am going to try to run it with some of the other suggestions for a few months before I tinker with it. I’m going to try to change the way I look at the individual sets before I change the actual sets themselves.

Here is my new training manifesto. I will not fail reps unless that is the intent of the program at that point in time (which it currently isn’t and probably wont be for a while). No more than 10 reps on 5/3/1 sets. I WILL NOT PRIORITIZE ASSISTANCE. I will do no more than 50 reps and no less than 30 on assistance. Each assistance exercise will get 15 minutes to get all 30-50 reps, and no more. For the big lift assistance exercises (Squat/Bench/Deads/Press) I will not exceed 70% of my training max. I will add 5 lbs to upper body lifts, and 10 lbs to lower body lifts monthly. Deloads will be optional and probably wont happen due to how often I have to skip a day here and there due to school and life.

Press (5/3/1 sets) (paused reps)
Pullup (Increasing #'s)
Bench (5x10)
Face Pull (3x10)
Rear Laterals (3x10)
Curls (3x10)

Squat (5/3/1 sets)
Deadlift (5x10)

Bench (5/3/1 sets) (paused reps)
Kroc Row (50 reps)
Press (5x10)
Chest supported row (3x10) (or other misc back movement)
Skull Crusher (3x10)
Smith Shrug (3x10)

Deadlift (5/3/1 sets)
Squat (5x10)

Squat
5xbodyweight
5x45
5x135
5x185
5x215
5x250
10x285 (Last 5/3/1 set.)
3x315

Deadlift
5x10 @ 185 double overhand grip (always)

No failing today. I had a bit of anterior hip pain in the early sets despite my warmup being a bit more gradual than normal. I don’t know why, but my foot position felt a bit awkward today. Wider felt a little better. Still falling a little forward at the bottom. I am satisfied with this lift.

Bodyweight of 204.0

Bench (Gym under construction, so I had to rig up a bench in a squat rack.)
5x45
5x135
5x155
5x185
10x205 (Didnt fail, but had to grind out the last rep. 20 lbs off of my personal best.)

Dumbbell Bench
5x75
3x100 (Just for fun)

Here is where life gets interesting for the day. One of the rooms for our gym is getting a new floor. That gym is the only one with the 110 lb dumbbells. So I had to carry them from that gym down the length of the basketball court to the other room. Had to stop twice and then carry them individually. Killed my grip.

Kroc Rows
110 lbs for 10/10/10/10 (I am 75% sure I got 4 sets of 10. My left hand grip just couldn’t hang on. These took forever and were shitty. Not happy with this.)
Did 3 extra on my left hand before it died, and I figured it wasn’t worth even doing on the right. Damn.

Gym was super crowded so I couldn’t do the exercises in order.

Chest supported row
3 plates for 8/4
2 plates for 15/10
2 plates and a 25 for 7

Press (Finally got back into the only squat rack on the whole university.)
5x10 @ 95

Skull crusher
3x10 @ 70

Shrug on cable stack row machine
10 @ 175
2x10 @ 210 (Tried to get real good contractions at the top of these.)

Rough day. My grip in my left hand just felt terrible all day after the farmer’s carry. I really wanted to try to get 20 on each hand today. I did what I could, and tried to make up a little ground on the chest supported row.

Bodyweight: 208.8

Deadlift
5x135
5x185
5x250
5x290
10x330 (Last 5/3/1 set. No fail.)
4x365 (Extra set. No fail.)

Squat
Did a warmup up with my bodyweight x2, but still had some hip pain.
Did a set of 10 @ 185. Didnt feel good, so I narrowed my stance.
5x10 @ 185 with little rest in between sets.

Time in gym approx. 50 min.
Bodyweight: 207.5

Press
5x45
3x95
3x100
3x115
9x135 (Yeah, today was supposed to be 130, but I just had to do it. I got half way up 10, decided that I was going to fail the rep, so I stopped.)

Chin up
7 (9 with kicks)/ 5/4/4/4/3/5/3/4 (Not a spectacular day here. Tried to take less rest in between sets.)

Bench Press
135 x 10/10/10/10/10/15 (This weight may be too light.)

Preacher Curl
3x 10 @ 60

Face Pull Superset with Rear Laterals
3x10 @ 140 lbs (face pull)
3x10 @ 20 lb dumbbells (rear laterals)

1x20 @ 100 lbs (face pull)
1x10 @ 15 lbs (rear laterals)
1x10 @ 10 lbs (rear laterals)

Bodyweight 208.2

Lots of sleep and food in the last few days. Felt great today. Total time in the gym you ask? Oh something like an hour and 15 minutes. And, I tied a PR on my overhead press, hell I almost beat it. I am really happy with this lift, and I feel good. I talked to Paul Carter and Tim Henriques the other day, and both gave me solid advice on the future of my lifting. I am really surprised that they would even take time out of their day to help me. I am looking forward to following their advice and really taking this up another notch when I get a little more free time. I’m still grinding out finals because I was in the hospital, and I am done with a few tests from this semester already. I am solidly on cruise control, and I hope to keep it that way for a while.

Squat
5 @ Bodyweight
5 @ Bodyweight
5x45
5x135
5x185
3x235
3x265
9x300 (NEW PR. No failed reps. Changed my head position today. Ill explain at the bottom.)

Deadlift (double overhand grip)
5x10 @ 225
2x5 @ 225

Feeling real good. Normally I pick a spot on the wall at eye level to look at through my set. Long story short, I looked down at a point about 4 feet in front of me on the floor today instead of at a point on the wall. I didn’t have any hip pain (been fighting it a little bit lately), felt like my hamstrings did more work, and was able to go deeper at the bottom. For the record, I squat low bar, without a belt.

Worked out today, but I’m real jammed for time. I’ll log my workout tomorrow.

Yesterday’s lift

Bench Press
5x45
5x135
3x170
3x190
9x215 (Spot touched 10, but I’m not sure I would have got it anyway. No fail haha.)

Kroc Row
110 lb dumbbells for sets of 15/15/10/5 (I cant recall if I did another set of 5 or not. Oh well.)

Press
5x10 @ 95 (No failing at all, these went great.)

Skull Crusher
70 lb ez bar for 10/10/10/10

Chest supported row
3 plates for 9 then 5
dropped to
2 plates and a 25 for 5
dropped to
2 plates for 18

Shrug on cable stack
210 lbs for 15/10/10 (Nice squeeze at the top.)

My grip felt good, and I felt good about this workout. Weighed in at 206.5 though. I don’t know why. That was odd. I am going to look at my bench form again soon. I think I could use some work. My phone deleted my workout, so I did my best to recall what I did from memory. I indicated where I couldn’t remember.

I had ACLS all weekend, and it lasted the duration of the gym’s hours. The gym isn’t open on Sundays either, so I cant go today. Ill have to try to squeeze it in tomorrow sometime. I’m really hoping to have a good lift. School has been a major obstacle in my life recently.

Why are the times all messed up in my log?

It is currently 10:11 AM on June 2nd, 2013.

Deadlift
5x135
5x225
3x275 (5 lbs heavier than what it was supposed to be.)
3x315 (5 lbs heavier than what it was supposed to be.)
10x345 (New PR?)
1x410 (Ugliest rep of the day so I called it quits on the first rep.)

Squat
6x10 @ 185

Meh. Just felt kinda empty today. I don’t know. My ribs hurt a little when I breathe in. Nothing major. I’ve had this before. I’ll take the new PR either way.

Weighed in at 207.0 before and 207.4 after. YES THIS IS A GYM WEIGHT. Christ.

Yesterdays lift

Press
5x45
5x45
5x95
5x110
3x125
9x135
4x135

Pull Up
9/6/5/4/5/5

Bench Press
5x10 @ 135

Face Pull
140 lbs for sets of 10/15/15/10
100 lbs for a set of 10

Skull Crushers
3x10 @ 70

Rear Laterals
2x10 @ 20 lbs dumbbells

The skull crushers and the face pulls were super sets. Felt good. I’m kinda pissed I didn’t set a new PR. Oh well. The pull ups were all solid reps this time. Weight 207.4.

Just my .00002

Your new manifesto looks good, follow your own advice. If the program shown below is part of the edit, it seems to immediately contradict the manifesto - skull crusher’s, shrugs, etc.

Follow the program and Jim’s advice - set conservative maxes, don’t go to failure all the time (you should VERY rarely (basically never) need a spotter), if doing BBB don’t do more than some back or core work and maybe consider a 3 day training week.

Hope some of that helps. :slight_smile:

[quote]Waylon wrote:
Just my .00002

Your new manifesto looks good, follow your own advice. If the program shown below is part of the edit, it seems to immediately contradict the manifesto - skull crusher’s, shrugs, etc.

Follow the program and Jim’s advice - set conservative maxes, don’t go to failure all the time (you should VERY rarely (basically never) need a spotter), if doing BBB don’t do more than some back or core work and maybe consider a 3 day training week.

Hope some of that helps. :)[/quote]

Thanks for the input Waylon. I don’t think the split contradicts the manifesto. It just adds a lot more accessory work than I see some people doing.

I talked to Mr. Wendler last week. Sent him a quick update. I have thought of toning down the days, but my life is real hectic right now, and I need to lift as often as possible until everything in my life settles down a bit. When I get to that point, I’ll consider some changes like you mentioned. Advice is always welcome. I agree with the spotter statement. I only use one for bench press, as that is the one I feel is the most dangerous. I’m doing pretty good on not failing these days compared to last month.

Today’s lift (6/10/13)

Bodyweight before workout? 209.3

Squat
5 without bar
5x45
5x135
5x225
5x250
3x285
8x315 (New PR)
1x340
0x360 (Got to the bottom and had a bit of a calf cramp, so I just set it gently on the pins and called it a day for squats.)

Deadlift (Double overhand grip as usual.)
5x10 @ 225 (Lost count of sets because I got distracted. I am actually pretty certain I did 6 sets though. No big deal. It’s just assistance.)

Good lift today. =]

Got hit in the eye by a lacrosse ball and got a corneal abrasion. Missed a test and threw off my school schedule. So subsequently, my lifting got thrown off. I hope I can get the school situation all sorted out soon. I think I was making some good progress, and I hope I can resume ASAP.

Bench press
5x45
5x135
5x185
3x205
9x225 (Almost got 10, but just as I was grinding it up the spot touched. Tied all time PR, and set a new PR since the deload.)

Kroc Row
15/15/15/5 (More reps this week.)

Press
5x10 @ 95 (These were rough.)

Didn’t get to the rest of the lift. I will complete this lift tomorrow. There was a bit of left shoulder pain with the overhead pressing. I moved my grip in an inch or two for the bench press. Felt a ton stronger.

Tomorrow I have to do: shrugs, skull crusher, and chest supported row. I also have to make up preacher curls because I got distracted last upper body day and did skull crushers instead. The rows will be until I see fit, and the isolation work will be 5x10 because there is no prefatigue from previous work. I feel good about this lift despite not getting done.

Weight: 206-something

Just some fun info based on calculations:

Squat: 395
Bench: 295
Deadlift: 470
Standing Press: 180

Bodyweight of approximately 207.5.

Almost ready to get to the gym for today.