Think You Are Big But Just Fat

Training
161

OK, so i just read all the posts that came after my last one… and all i can say is

GOOD LORD!

alright, let me sift through this mess and help you guys out

Ironmanzw, “getting flat” does not equate to muscle loss, glycogen loss yes, but not muscle. It is part of the dieting process, a demoralizing one indeed, but it is necessary. You certainly can lose muscle dieting with AAS, it depends on how hard you diet. 600mg of testosterone and a reasonable dose of t3 will help you to lose fat and maintain muscle mass assuming you aren’t overdoing the cardio, and your diet is solid. I prefer running Low test/High tren

Marzouk, i looked at your cycle, 22lbs in 3 weeks on test E/Dbol will be mostly dramatically increased glycogen storage and water weight, especially considering test E hasn’t fully “kicked in”, as it were. Though Dbol is a very potent compound. People lose weight rapidly post cycle especially if the cycle contains a “wet” compound like Dbol (testosterone can be considered “wet” as well, due to its high conversion to estrogen). This weight loss is due to glycogen loss, and water loss, not necessarily muscle loss. It is demoralizing seeing the scale go down, but keep things in perspective.

What im surprised… and to be honest, quite disturbed about, is that no one has mentioned insulin sensitivity. Having a high body fat percentage, as you do, is very bad for nutrient partitioning, as it were. Your body is far more inclined to store extra fat than it is to build lean mass. The leaner you are, the more your body will want to build lean mass, and the opposite is also true…

you want to be very sensitive to your body’s natural insulin production… which you aren’t as your BF is very high. For this reason, i would not recommend continuing with your “Bulk”, as your body is not primed for muscle gain, AAS or not. I would recommend that you begin “cutting” immediately, you will thank me later. AAS works better if you are leaner, and so does your body in general. Additionally, being that heavy/fat is unhealthy especially for things like blood pressure, lipids and triglycerides etc.

I saw that you consume whole milk post workout… I dont even know what to say about that… really bad choice. Dairy, milk especially, is quite insulinogenic, which is a bad thing if you are trying to stay sensitive to your body’s insulin production, which you should be for the aformentioned reasons…

I also saw that you said “if i weren’t on AAS, id be cutting right now”, also a very bad call… you do not want to gain weight with AAS, then try to cut naturally… it makes no sense, a very foolish friend of mine tried that, and let’s just say… he was VERY disappointed. “bulk” on aas, and cut on aas, or “bulk” naturally, and cut on aas.

also, there is no such thing as an “estrogen blocker”, you mean aromatase inhibitor… (sorry, but it’s just the lack of education regarding these serious compounds can be nauseating). Being fat increases your estrogen, so by reducing your estrogen via the implementation of an aromatase inhibitor, you wil drop water, and fat… water weight rather quickly, depending on how high your estrogen was prior to implementation of the AI.

ill post again if i see something missed… but there you have it (for now)

162

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
In the MEDICAL/HEALTHCARE community, 25% bodyfat is considered obese. What does that say about 20 to 24%? That it’s chubby/fat. (BMI is disregarded for athletes and lifters). [/quote]

^^^ Cmon now Brick, you know we’re discussing exactly that BMI-N/A group here.

If it isn’t obvious that one lifts regularly, its not the ‘full house’ look that we’re talking about.

163

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
In the MEDICAL/HEALTHCARE community, 25% bodyfat is considered obese. What does that say about 20 to 24%? That it’s chubby/fat. (BMI is disregarded for athletes and lifters). [/quote]

^^^ Cmon now Brick, you know we’re discussing exactly that BMI-N/A group here.

If it isn’t obvious that one lifts regularly, its not the ‘full house’ look that we’re talking about.

[/quote]

I see what you’re saying, because people with different musculatures will look different at different bodyfat percentages. However, regardless of these “looks”, percentages are still there.

If some guy looks very sloppy at 20% because he lacks muscle mass and some other guy has the
“full house” look at 20% because he’s carrying a lot of muscle, the percentage is still the same. Looks is an objective criteria; bodyfat percentage doesn’t. So if we’re gonna talk how the body works (eg, insulin sensitivity, response to diet) or what people need to get down to look even moderately lean or even contest ready (on average) or even HEALTH, I believe body composition matters.

(I might be misunderstanding your post.)

164

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
OK, so i just read all the posts that came after my last one… and all i can say is

GOOD LORD!

alright, let me sift through this mess and help you guys out

Ironmanzw, “getting flat” does not equate to muscle loss, glycogen loss yes, but not muscle. It is part of the dieting process, a demoralizing one indeed, but it is necessary. You certainly can lose muscle dieting with AAS, it depends on how hard you diet. 600mg of testosterone and a reasonable dose of t3 will help you to lose fat and maintain muscle mass assuming you aren’t overdoing the cardio, and your diet is solid. I prefer running Low test/High tren

Marzouk, i looked at your cycle, 22lbs in 3 weeks on test E/Dbol will be mostly dramatically increased glycogen storage and water weight, especially considering test E hasn’t fully “kicked in”, as it were. Though Dbol is a very potent compound. People lose weight rapidly post cycle especially if the cycle contains a “wet” compound like Dbol (testosterone can be considered “wet” as well, due to its high conversion to estrogen). This weight loss is due to glycogen loss, and water loss, not necessarily muscle loss. It is demoralizing seeing the scale go down, but keep things in perspective.

What im surprised… and to be honest, quite disturbed about, is that no one has mentioned insulin sensitivity. Having a high body fat percentage, as you do, is very bad for nutrient partitioning, as it were. Your body is far more inclined to store extra fat than it is to build lean mass. The leaner you are, the more your body will want to build lean mass, and the opposite is also true…

you want to be very sensitive to your body’s natural insulin production… which you aren’t as your BF is very high. For this reason, i would not recommend continuing with your “Bulk”, as your body is not primed for muscle gain, AAS or not. I would recommend that you begin “cutting” immediately, you will thank me later. AAS works better if you are leaner, and so does your body in general. Additionally, being that heavy/fat is unhealthy especially for things like blood pressure, lipids and triglycerides etc.

I saw that you consume whole milk post workout… I dont even know what to say about that… really bad choice. Dairy, milk especially, is quite insulinogenic, which is a bad thing if you are trying to stay sensitive to your body’s insulin production, which you should be for the aformentioned reasons…

I also saw that you said “if i weren’t on AAS, id be cutting right now”, also a very bad call… you do not want to gain weight with AAS, then try to cut naturally… it makes no sense, a very foolish friend of mine tried that, and let’s just say… he was VERY disappointed. “bulk” on aas, and cut on aas, or “bulk” naturally, and cut on aas.

also, there is no such thing as an “estrogen blocker”, you mean aromatase inhibitor… (sorry, but it’s just the lack of education regarding these serious compounds can be nauseating). Being fat increases your estrogen, so by reducing your estrogen via the implementation of an aromatase inhibitor, you wil drop water, and fat… water weight rather quickly, depending on how high your estrogen was prior to implementation of the AI.

ill post again if i see something missed… but there you have it (for now)

[/quote]

Thanks for the response man. I’m thinking of giving the t3 a try, I guess just the standard 50mcg/day?

Also, I totally agree with you about “bulking” going overboard. The member you were giving advice too gained impressive size, but also got fat as shit. Once cut down (way down) he would be a beast! Precisely the reason I’m cutting now. To have a leaner base to build off of.

165

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

Thanks for the response man. I’m thinking of giving the t3 a try, I guess just the standard 50mcg/day?

Also, I totally agree with you about “bulking” going overboard. The member you were giving advice too gained impressive size, but also got fat as shit. Once cut down (way down) he would be a beast! Precisely the reason I’m cutting now. To have a leaner base to build off of.[/quote]

i would begin tinkering with your macros and cardio, adjusting things slowly as fatloss begins to slow down. implement t3, and increase it slowly for the same reason. Doing things gradually will ensure that muscle loss is greatly reduced.

being lean will give you a far better “base” to build off of, directly related to insulin sensitivity

166

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
Lets all be honest here… The “Full house” look is just a made up term for chubby.

If guys prefer to not do cardio and diet and want to carry an extra layer of fat then so be it but making up a new term for it isn’t fooling anyone.

Anyway… Marz, I think the added benifits from pushing your weight up from 257-265 will be virtually nill. If your plan is to just “bulk up” 8 more pounds then cut, why not just cut now? How much muscle do you think you’ll put on with that added 8 lbs? You’re already a big guy. When you’re already carrying a good amount of muscle, and aren’t a newb, the amount that you can realistically hope to gain is minimal.

ILook at the very detailed contest prep log of The Mighty Stu. He put on 3 lbs in a year? (Something like that)

Unless you’re using AAS. In that case you can disregard most of my post lol.[/quote]

Funny you should say that, i started AAS 3 weeks ago not tryna hide it, not guna lie about it. My log is over in the steroid section. I’ve gained 22lbs in the last 3 weeks and a 1/2 inch on my waist.

[/quote]

22lbs in 3 weeks while losing half an inch? Hell yeah man, that’s awesome!

In that case you can disregard my post lol. I’m pay a little more attention to your diet I’m sure you could do a bit of “re-comping” and look significantly different at your current weight.

Keep it up big man.
[/quote]

Ye i’m trying my best to keep things in check - yesterday’s groceries contained 6lbs of rice and 25lbs of skinless chicken breasts![/quote]

Damn… That’s only two days worth of food, what you gonna eat the rest of the week?

167

LOL at the abuse of the term “full house”. Good job Marzouk you’ll kill 'em when you cut. Also, Tren is no joke, I’m sweating just thinkin bout it.

168

[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote:
LOL at the abuse of the term “full house”. Good job Marzouk you’ll kill 'em when you cut. Also, Tren is no joke, I’m sweating just thinkin bout it.[/quote]

the side effects associated with tren can be lessened by running it with very low testosterone

169

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yep just happened to me

was at 225lbs at 5’9 strongfat, hired shelby, ended up around 175 lmao

figured id be a jacked 190… NOPE

it’s humbling[/quote]

Where you pretty jacked at 175lbs?

How was your experience with Shelby?

I am down 22lbs I look a lot smaller but probably need to lose another 22lbs lol or more before it starts to look ripped…

Its awful :S Feels like you work all your life to get big then all of a sudden you are just fat lol

Oh no[/quote]

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

…am I delusional, or were you not really that fat???

Paulie and Austin got pretty sloppy, and I think they would say the same. You, at least from the back, look basically like a dude who could stand to lose a few but is by no means fat.
[/quote]

haha thanks bro, i think it’s because my shoulders are pretty broad for my height (5’9) and my waist is pretty narrow (29)

creates a nice illusion was i was pretty chunky… could see 4 abs tho[/quote]

Man 13 weeks to get that shredded? Starnes is a magician. What’s the most practical and important advice you could give to someone like me looking to shred some fat, based on your experiences?

170

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yep just happened to me

was at 225lbs at 5’9 strongfat, hired shelby, ended up around 175 lmao

figured id be a jacked 190… NOPE

it’s humbling[/quote]

Where you pretty jacked at 175lbs?

How was your experience with Shelby?

I am down 22lbs I look a lot smaller but probably need to lose another 22lbs lol or more before it starts to look ripped…

Its awful :S Feels like you work all your life to get big then all of a sudden you are just fat lol

Oh no[/quote]

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

…am I delusional, or were you not really that fat???

Paulie and Austin got pretty sloppy, and I think they would say the same. You, at least from the back, look basically like a dude who could stand to lose a few but is by no means fat.
[/quote]

haha thanks bro, i think it’s because my shoulders are pretty broad for my height (5’9) and my waist is pretty narrow (29)

creates a nice illusion was i was pretty chunky… could see 4 abs tho[/quote]

Man 13 weeks to get that shredded? Starnes is a magician. What’s the most practical and important advice you could give to someone like me looking to shred some fat, based on your experiences?[/quote]

-diet is absolutely essential
-unless you are on aas, i would recommend taking things VERY slowly
-adjust either macros or cardio when progress starts to stall, only adjust both at once if you are on aas
-do not get discouraged
-lift heavy, but with good form, you have to give your body reason to hold onto that muscle
-make sure u get ur sleep

171

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
.[/quote]

Marzouk , how long has it been since you started you Rx

172

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
OK, so i just read all the posts that came after my last one… and all i can say is

GOOD LORD!

alright, let me sift through this mess and help you guys out

Ironmanzw, “getting flat” does not equate to muscle loss, glycogen loss yes, but not muscle. It is part of the dieting process, a demoralizing one indeed, but it is necessary. You certainly can lose muscle dieting with AAS, it depends on how hard you diet. 600mg of testosterone and a reasonable dose of t3 will help you to lose fat and maintain muscle mass assuming you aren’t overdoing the cardio, and your diet is solid. I prefer running Low test/High tren

Marzouk, i looked at your cycle, 22lbs in 3 weeks on test E/Dbol will be mostly dramatically increased glycogen storage and water weight, especially considering test E hasn’t fully “kicked in”, as it were. Though Dbol is a very potent compound. People lose weight rapidly post cycle especially if the cycle contains a “wet” compound like Dbol (testosterone can be considered “wet” as well, due to its high conversion to estrogen). This weight loss is due to glycogen loss, and water loss, not necessarily muscle loss. It is demoralizing seeing the scale go down, but keep things in perspective.

What im surprised… and to be honest, quite disturbed about, is that no one has mentioned insulin sensitivity. Having a high body fat percentage, as you do, is very bad for nutrient partitioning, as it were. Your body is far more inclined to store extra fat than it is to build lean mass. The leaner you are, the more your body will want to build lean mass, and the opposite is also true…

you want to be very sensitive to your body’s natural insulin production… which you aren’t as your BF is very high. For this reason, i would not recommend continuing with your “Bulk”, as your body is not primed for muscle gain, AAS or not. I would recommend that you begin “cutting” immediately, you will thank me later. AAS works better if you are leaner, and so does your body in general. Additionally, being that heavy/fat is unhealthy especially for things like blood pressure, lipids and triglycerides etc.

I saw that you consume whole milk post workout… I dont even know what to say about that… really bad choice. Dairy, milk especially, is quite insulinogenic, which is a bad thing if you are trying to stay sensitive to your body’s insulin production, which you should be for the aformentioned reasons…

I also saw that you said “if i weren’t on AAS, id be cutting right now”, also a very bad call… you do not want to gain weight with AAS, then try to cut naturally… it makes no sense, a very foolish friend of mine tried that, and let’s just say… he was VERY disappointed. “bulk” on aas, and cut on aas, or “bulk” naturally, and cut on aas.

also, there is no such thing as an “estrogen blocker”, you mean aromatase inhibitor… (sorry, but it’s just the lack of education regarding these serious compounds can be nauseating). Being fat increases your estrogen, so by reducing your estrogen via the implementation of an aromatase inhibitor, you wil drop water, and fat… water weight rather quickly, depending on how high your estrogen was prior to implementation of the AI.

ill post again if i see something missed… but there you have it (for now)

[/quote]

Thanks for the response man. I’m thinking of giving the t3 a try, I guess just the standard 50mcg/day?

Also, I totally agree with you about “bulking” going overboard. The member you were giving advice too gained impressive size, but also got fat as shit. Once cut down (way down) he would be a beast! Precisely the reason I’m cutting now. To have a leaner base to build off of.[/quote]

I’m coming in kinda late here so forgive me if you wrote about this , walkway- what BF % would you recommend to start this type or any type of cycle at? To be more percise, someone who came from 30 percent BF for quite sometime and went down to 13% from 1 year lifting and great nutrition. Before that on and off in gym but diet to shit. Put on 20 pounds muscle w good genetics for gaining muscle but also vulnerable to gaining fat.

Anyone other comments appreciated.

173

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]The3Commandments wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Delta31 wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
yep just happened to me

was at 225lbs at 5’9 strongfat, hired shelby, ended up around 175 lmao

figured id be a jacked 190… NOPE

it’s humbling[/quote]

Where you pretty jacked at 175lbs?

How was your experience with Shelby?

I am down 22lbs I look a lot smaller but probably need to lose another 22lbs lol or more before it starts to look ripped…

Its awful :S Feels like you work all your life to get big then all of a sudden you are just fat lol

Oh no[/quote]

http://asp.elitefts.net/qa/training-logs.asp?qid=182739

left, 225, right 170-175.

was a miserable experience, but it was my own fault for being so out of shape.

miserable, but it got it done, Shelby killed me, and im happier than ever before that i worked with him… can’t even tell you how happy.

4 years to get that fat… 13 weeks to lose it, thanks to him. Now im working with him in the offseason for 52 weeks and loving every second of it

guy is an incredible asset[/quote]

…am I delusional, or were you not really that fat???

Paulie and Austin got pretty sloppy, and I think they would say the same. You, at least from the back, look basically like a dude who could stand to lose a few but is by no means fat.
[/quote]

haha thanks bro, i think it’s because my shoulders are pretty broad for my height (5’9) and my waist is pretty narrow (29)

creates a nice illusion was i was pretty chunky… could see 4 abs tho[/quote]

Man 13 weeks to get that shredded? Starnes is a magician. What’s the most practical and important advice you could give to someone like me looking to shred some fat, based on your experiences?[/quote]

-diet is absolutely essential
-unless you are on aas, i would recommend taking things VERY slowly
-adjust either macros or cardio when progress starts to stall, only adjust both at once if you are on aas
-do not get discouraged
-lift heavy, but with good form, you have to give your body reason to hold onto that muscle
-make sure u get ur sleep[/quote]

Excellent advice, straight to the point. You sir, are an asset to this site.

174

my 2 cents

looking BIG Marzouk. good job. are you fat? ya, but you are BIG too.

as far as what you should do, of course, it depends on your goals. if you just want to be the guy who at first glance when you walk into a room with clothes on gets a double take and people are borderline shocked, then keep on getting big.

that used to be me, 5’6" 270lbs, 30 inch thighs, 21 inch arms, 22 inch neck, 60 inch chest, and 44 inch waist, lol.

my gf at the time and other friends would say i people would stare at me when i was out and about.

recently, i lost a lot of weight and started doing more bodybuilding, and though not as strong or impressive(imo), i get many more compliments on my body from friends and strangers alike, i feel better, and just my preference, i do not see the need to be BIG for bigs sake unless you are trying to get stronger too.

as my injuries accumulated, and i realized i would never be as strong as i once was, i figured why be so big, might as well try to look a little bit better with my shirt off, no?

175

720×960 53.1 KB

this is me, at about 260lbs, fat, but BIG, strong and athletic competing in the A division of the highland games…

this me more recently at a trimmer 230ish

[photo]31636[/photo]

176

^^good posts HT.

It’s nice to hear from someone who’s been there and done that.

177

thanks.

my point is, if i have one, that i would put people who are the size of marzouk, x, steely d, savage nation, maurader meat, etc, as people whos size impresses the heck out of me,

but as far as who I would want to look like when i am taking the shirt off at the beach, or in the bedroom with my lady, i would rather look like you gregron, or davinci, or bluecollartraning, cortez, zzraw, etc.

not sure if that makes sense or not.

178

^^that makes sense.

I think everyone got into the game because they wanted to be big and strong because they saw someone (real life, movies or comics or something) and thought “man I wanna look like that guy!”

There was a time where I thought “I’m gonna get huuuuuuge!” but at 220 and some change I started having some knee pain and I felt slow/un athletic. Was it cool being “big” and having people make comments often? Yeah it was but, and I HATE to use this phrase, it wasn’t very functional/practical.

I didn’t look as good shirtless. I wasn’t able to do the things I liked to do as well as before (sports/active lifestyle) and I was having knee pains as a freakin 27 year old guy. F that lol

EDIT: not sure if this is sort of a ramble or not? Hopefully my point comes across.

179

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
this is me, at about 260lbs, fat, but BIG, strong and athletic competing in the A division of the highland games…

this me more recently at a trimmer 230ish

[photo]31636[/photo][/quote]

In the process of losing a lot of that excess fat (looking good BTW) it would appear that you lost your neck as well lol.

180

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
this is me, at about 260lbs, fat, but BIG, strong and athletic competing in the A division of the highland games…

this me more recently at a trimmer 230ish

[photo]31636[/photo][/quote]

In the process of losing a lot of that excess fat (looking good BTW) it would appear that you lost your neck as well lol.[/quote]
haha, i never had much of a neck even when fat. traps are more visible when i dont have 34 chins.