OP I used think I big and I was in clothes but underneath was a whole different story. I pretty much bulked till i got to about 265-270 @ 5’8 and then dropped like 45lbs in like 4 months. lost like 5% strength on pressing movements but that was mainly due to a shoulder injury.
overall im happy im leaner but still but cant get over physiological aspect of feeling small.
Marzouk warms up with 1000lbs dumbell rows.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
[quote]GrindOverMatter wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Since everyone else is self promoting.
Here is me from 240 to 191 over about 2 years. [/quote]
Impressive. DD, I may be wrong, but did you use CBL at all during your cut?[/quote]
I definitely read a lot of Kiefers stuff, and use a lot of his principals, but I hesitate to say I did CBL because I haven’t read the book and I don’t strictly follow his diet.
But, my diet throughout the process has been a continuum of refinement. It’s hard to say that I’ve done any one thing because I’ve been tweaking, adjusting and experimenting the whole time.
[/quote]
I just was curious. I like CBL, with all my carbs later in the day and after my workout.
But I see impressive guys like Stu or Mr. Walkway in this thread, talking about pre and intra WO carbs being important, and a lot saying PWO aren’t needed, and makes me feel like I’m doing it wrong haha[/quote]
if you are in a growing phase i think carbs PWO are pretty essential
growing phase yes, leaning phase no.
[/quote]
So you don’t agree with something like CBL? I’ve had decent success with that leaning down…
Sorry for the derail, just curious as your training, diet, philosophy… [/quote]
everything works up to a certain point, but i would consider CBL to be very sub-optimal… especially when you take into consideration the types of “foods” that are deemed acceptable by it.
I was about 145 when I started high school…but that was a long time ago and am now at 265, and 6 feet tall…but I’d guess my body fat to be 25%…pics in profile but be warned I’m naturlly sucking in my stomach to a degree…not trying to herniate myself but to put on a good showing.
I got down to 198 for about a week 10 years ago by doing Body For Life. Yeah.
I wonder how much shit I’d still look like if I got down to 200 again.
[quote]SavagedNatiion wrote:
Marzouk warms up with 1000lbs dumbell rows.[/quote]
Thats just for bi’s
Sorry to be the one to break it to you, heavythrower, but you’re still fucking huge. Still a ‘head-turner physique’.
Marzouk, great progress. I’d get to cutting. Let me be honest: if I were you, I’d do it in a rather drastic way (provided you’re injury-free).
But since I’m not you: there’s nothing wrong with a more graceful approach by cleaning up your diet without lowering calories, as as Professor X pointed out earlier in the thread. Should that already contribute to fat loss without impacting your muscle mass and performance. keep at it.
The next step would have me increase my work volume, both in and outside of the gym - DoubleDuce gave a thorough description about his implementation of this aspect.
After having taken care of all this stuff, you could finally focus on lowering calories.
Also, I don’t see a problem with having to lose (some) muscle during a cut. Gaining it back isn’t all that hard, especially doing so from a much leaner base (=> hormones and better lifestyle habits, usually).
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I should say this too.
Physical changes aside, the cut was worth its’ weight in gold about what I’ve learned about myself. I learned far more about bodybuilding in a year of cutting than I did in the previous decade of endless bulking. I know what my body needs and how it works. Additionally, breaking the mental barriers I’d set up about being fat/big and being deathly afraid of getting smaller has opened my life and training to entirely new and wonderfully enjoyable worlds.
There is nothing wrong with getting a little chunky to get where you want to go. BUT there is a serious problem when your goal is to build an aesthetic physique and you spend a large portion of your life fat. It can ultimately become a mental and physical wall that prevents you from getting to the real goal. Everyone has their own story. I personally was 97 pounds as a freshman in high school and had/have huge insecurities about my size. If you have a plan, you have a deadline, and you commit yourself to doing what you claim, you can have great results.
That wasn’t how I got to 240. Even when I started cutting, that wasn’t me. I really didn’t admit to myself until I was already lean just how fat I was. I came down because I was “a bit soft” and I “will look much better if I drop 15 pounds.” Then 15 pounds later, I still look like crap. Well, maybe another 10-15 pounds. And on and on. Down at about 215, I finally start realizing I was just fat and it wasn’t until that point I finally stepped back, looked at myself and got committed to being lean, in shape, and healthy.
It’s kind of like the first time you put on glasses and realize you’re whole life was blurry up till then. Bulking like that can be a tool, but it can also be a trap. It took me a good year of actively dropping fat to get to a point of being happy with what I saw in the mirror WITHOUT having to make up “powerbelly” and “rather be fat and strong” excuses (as a note, I did this all as a natty). It’s just sad when I think about it. Now, I’ll be turning 30 in a couple of months, and for the first time in my life, I’m happy with my body.
I’d encourage anyone to step back, turn their back on any dogma, and honestly ask themselves what they want out of life, and what they would do to get there.
[/quote]
POST SHOULD BE A STICKY, and the before and after pics.
nice.
some more of my 2 cents, i guess it adds to and sort of relates to some other stuff being said by people on this thread.
as a strength athlete, i could give two fucks what i looked like, i did whatever it took to make that iron implement go a few feet farther or that barbell lift go a little heavier. that was it.
i was HUGE. and FAT.
from 250-270, i looked like a hot mess, as i gave up on chasing numbers and records and trophies, i trimmed up a little by simply not binging on massive amounts of food, i just ate when hungry, and tried to stay away from the late night snack a thons which could be a giant plate of ribeye steak bean avocado cheese and sour cream feast. or a whole large pepperoni pizza that i would as grilled chicken and steak to it as extra toppings. or 200 chicken wings.
basically i just dropped that insanity and i lost down to 235-245 and with some bodybuilding i trimmed up my belly a littls and my arms delts and traps started to show out.
to get down to the next level, i had to cut the shit food, no fast food, no sweets, more veggies n salads and fruits. that put me in the 210-220 range, and i felt good in clothes but pics with clothes off, i lookd small and flat and flabby.
now here is the turning point, if i tolerate me looking like crap now, and keep going to the next level, will i finally be ripped and looking good, or do i baloon back up to the 230-240 range where i look better, you can tell i train seriously, first, and that i might have some excess wieght second, sthat sitll is much better than pushing 300lbs and first thing noticed id the huge gut, then some athletic acheivements, then,nothing.
This thread shouldn’t be free. SRS.
I’m a small dude, and more or less a lifetime “athletic chubster” . My rate of fat gain always outpaces my rate of muscle gain during mass phases. So for better “nutrient partioning” I decided to drop a few pounds. Dropped 8 pounds with the help of IF and lost no muscle.
I was so disappointing that the weight lost provided ZERO improvements in aesthetics even though I was already under 15% bf to start. As someone else mentioned, I guess you really have to be near the finish line to start seeing results.
GL to everyone on your physique goals.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
My guess is that you will bring Marzouk’s (great) progress that he made with the help of AAS as justification for why people who are never going to take drugs should focus on the scale instead of the actual product.[/quote]
If you guess this, then you clearly don’t understand much of what I write at all.
My advice has always been to allow YOUR RESULTS to dictate what you do, not some pre-conceived notion of what all naturals should do vs what all people who use steroids should do.
Follow your progress and genetics. There are way too many of you here warping what is actually being written by many of us just so you can have more to argue about.
The bottom line is, no one in this thread should be giving him advice based on if he uses steroids or not…they should base it what is actually seen in terms of results made over time.
Stop ASSUMING what the human body “should” do…and stop spreading nonsense as if anyone else is writing otherwise.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
thanks.
my point is, if i have one, that i would put people who are the size of marzouk, x, steely d, savage nation, maurader meat, etc, as people whos size impresses the heck out of me,
but as far as who I would want to look like when i am taking the shirt off at the beach, or in the bedroom with my lady, i would rather look like you gregron, or davinci, or bluecollartraning, cortez, zzraw, etc.
not sure if that makes sense or not.
[/quote]
I am extremely humbled that you would even think to think of me to make that compliment and doubly humbled that you would place me in that group of people you listed.
Thank you.
I don’t disagree with what you wrote about ‘end physique’, but with qualification.
My goal 5 years ago was to get a big and as strong as I possibly could in 3-5 years accepting that I would likely gain some fat. Having just lost 70 lbs in several months at the time, it was a risk I was ready to take-- and would do again.
To me, a big squat and a big bench (for comps) are as or more important than abs, and equally important as big arms, quads, and especially a big yolk. Yes, this is the bodybuilding forum but the boundaries are gray (IMO).
Contrary to popular belief as supplement companies and mens’s mags would have you believe, there are some women (like my hot wife) who like BIG men, not extra medium metrosexuals with abs and ‘a new haircut’. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it certainly allows some leway as I’m not out to impress chicks. That’s not to say “obese” is OK, either.
This whole phrase of “look good naked” is, IMO, just a justification for small lean dudes to justify their inability to get big. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with it, but the idea that someone doesn’t think you look good naked because you’re not RIPPED is absurd.
I get off on the fact my bench and squat bends the bar sitting on the rack. I do that for ME ,not women, not TN, not my wife. I get off on the fact people approach me about lifting while I’m in my clothes, which is 99% of the time. I’m quite comforatable with myself at the beach with no shirt, and have had people approach me about lifting as well (not to ask me if I’ve been beached and would I like to be put back in the water and would I like some krill).
I’m taking the airline landing approach to cuttng-- you know how they announce the plane is now descending, but it takes another hour to get on the ground? It took 5 years to get big, no rush to come down.
For me, this is all about the long game. My physique now is just a snapshot point in time, it’s not the final destination. I can see the long goal and have the patience to do it.
Thanks for reading.
TL;DR
- In for the long game
- Patience
- Comfortable with self
- Means-to-ends
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
thanks.
my point is, if i have one, that i would put people who are the size of marzouk, x, steely d, savage nation, maurader meat, etc, as people whos size impresses the heck out of me,
but as far as who I would want to look like when i am taking the shirt off at the beach, or in the bedroom with my lady, i would rather look like you gregron, or davinci, or bluecollartraning, cortez, zzraw, etc.
not sure if that makes sense or not.
[/quote]
I am extremely humbled that you would even think to think of me to make that compliment and doubly humbled that you would place me in that group of people you listed.
Thank you.
I don’t disagree with what you wrote about ‘end physique’, but with qualification.
My goal 5 years ago was to get a big and as strong as I possibly could in 3-5 years accepting that I would likely gain some fat. Having just lost 70 lbs in several months at the time, it was a risk I was ready to take-- and would do again.
To me, a big squat and a big bench (for comps) are as or more important than abs, and equally important as big arms, quads, and especially a big yolk. Yes, this is the bodybuilding forum but the boundaries are gray (IMO).
Contrary to popular belief as supplement companies and mens’s mags would have you believe, there are some women (like my hot wife) who like BIG men, not extra medium metrosexuals with abs and ‘a new haircut’. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it certainly allows some leway as I’m not out to impress chicks. That’s not to say “obese” is OK, either.
This whole phrase of “look good naked” is, IMO, just a justification for small lean dudes to justify their inability to get big. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with it, but the idea that someone doesn’t think you look good naked because you’re not RIPPED is absurd.
I get off on the fact my bench and squat bends the bar sitting on the rack. I do that for ME ,not women, not TN, not my wife. I get off on the fact people approach me about lifting while I’m in my clothes, which is 99% of the time. I’m quite comforatable with myself at the beach with no shirt, and have had people approach me about lifting as well (not to ask me if I’ve been beached and would I like to be put back in the water and would I like some krill).
I’m taking the airline landing approach to cuttng-- you know how they announce the plane is now descending, but it takes another hour to get on the ground? It took 5 years to get big, no rush to come down.
For me, this is all about the long game. My physique now is just a snapshot point in time, it’s not the final destination. I can see the long goal and have the patience to do it.
Thanks for reading.
TL;DR
- In for the long game
- Patience
- Comfortable with self
- Means-to-ends
[/quote]
Agree with every word of this. I get compliments on how I look. This site has to be the only place where people act like all women like the same level of leanness and enjoy that over big muscles and athletic physique only not as ripped.
In terms of competing, of course the goal is to get really really lean…but to tell everyone what their end goal should be is a little backwards. Not all of us are going for the same look…and not all of us are impressed by physiques that aren’t that big but super lean.
People discuss lifting with me everywhere I go. I don’t have to be near naked for them to tell I am serious about lifting. I also know these women aren’t complaining that there aren’t veins on my abs right now.
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
and tried to stay away from the late night snack a thons which could be a giant plate of ribeye steak bean avocado cheese and sour cream feast. or a whole large pepperoni pizza that i would as grilled chicken and steak to it as extra toppings. or 200 chicken wings.
[/quote]
Jesus Christ that sounds good.
Marzouk -
You are in beast status. Excellent work brother. Personally, I think you’re in the sweet spot to do whatever you want. You still have a lot of room to keep growing, but you’ve also packed on a lot of mass that you’ll retain after a cut.
That’s a great spot to be in versus “too small” or “too fat”, both of which only you can define for you.
Your hard work has paid off.
I am duly impressed.
Ditto for DoubleDuce
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
This whole phrase of “look good naked” is, IMO, just a justification for small lean dudes to justify their inability to get big.
[/quote]
I will totally agree with this. Sure most people would think that as a competitive bodybuilder that I’d always take the package over size option, but let’s be serious for a moment. No one wants to be ripped at a buck 20. There are some natural guys out there who, while ripped yes, seem to forget that you need to build an appreciable amount of muscle to ‘look good’.
Bodybuilding is NOT a dieting contest. Of course neither is it a weight lifting contest
Good thread…
S
My belly serves too many purposes for me to get rid of it lol! its a perfect spot for my remote control.
As Steely said about his wife, my wife as well is not into skinny dudes and likes me big and bulky and Im happy to try and oblige her.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Agree with every word of this. I get compliments on how I look. This site has to be the only place where people act like all women like the same level of leanness and enjoy that over big muscles and athletic physique only not as ripped.
In terms of competing, of course the goal is to get really really lean…but to tell everyone what their end goal should be is a little backwards. Not all of us are going for the same look…and not all of us are impressed by physiques that aren’t that big but super lean.
People discuss lifting with me everywhere I go. I don’t have to be near naked for them to tell I am serious about lifting. I also know these women aren’t complaining that there aren’t veins on my abs right now.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone is saying contest lean or fat are the only two options. Obviously you (and this is for SteelyD as well, though he’s more worried with strength so not as much) have spent a ton of time putting on mass. The videos in Colorado indicate you are developed, and have an impressive physique for a lifter. And if you don’t want to diet down to contest levels that’s fine.
But I guess I wonder why you wouldn’t want to at least get to that 10-12% range (I know just arbitrary numbers, but you know what I mean).While dieting to that isn’t a walk in the park, it wouldn’t be all too hard either. Look at guys like CT Fletcher, rocked the ‘full house’ look for awhile, and now that he is cut, looks great. I mean, it’s not business of mine whether or not you’re ‘using’, but even if you are, it’s doubtful that you’re going to put on 15-20 lbs of LBM in the next year. That’s not an insult, but a compliment; you’re too advanced for that.
Otherwise you’d be a lean 340 in a few years haha. At a lower BF%, it would be much easier to really appreciate and see the visual enhancement a few lbs of muscle a year will make to your physique, at least more so then you probably could now.
And you’re not really a strength athlete, so you’re not just chasing numbers. So I feel like getting lean would be a whole new world of ‘progress’ for you. Once you got past that weird stage where you’re not as big, but not as lean as you’d want, where you feel flat, whatever, and get into the low teens/high single digit BF, I feel you’d LOVE it.
You’re delts, back, arms, chest, all developed, so it’s not like you’re going look ‘small’. If anything you’ll look a shit ton bigger do the illusion of such a smaller waist. Yeah, you may only fill out an XL instead of and XXL, but seriously who cares?
Obviously you can just tell me to fuck off, I’m small, I wouldn’t understand, whatever. But I just think you would be 10x more impressive by taking 2 months to just cut, and be done with it. You’ve had the ‘full house’ look for awhile, why not just try the ‘leaner’ look for awhile? If you don’t like it, you’ll be able to put all that mass back in less then half the time. Idk, just food for thought I suppose…
[quote]SteelyD wrote:
[quote]heavythrower wrote:
thanks.
my point is, if i have one, that i would put people who are the size of marzouk, x, steely d, savage nation, maurader meat, etc, as people whos size impresses the heck out of me,
but as far as who I would want to look like when i am taking the shirt off at the beach, or in the bedroom with my lady, i would rather look like you gregron, or davinci, or bluecollartraning, cortez, zzraw, etc.
not sure if that makes sense or not.
[/quote]
I am extremely humbled that you would even think to think of me to make that compliment and doubly humbled that you would place me in that group of people you listed.
Thank you.
I don’t disagree with what you wrote about ‘end physique’, but with qualification.
My goal 5 years ago was to get a big and as strong as I possibly could in 3-5 years accepting that I would likely gain some fat. Having just lost 70 lbs in several months at the time, it was a risk I was ready to take-- and would do again.
To me, a big squat and a big bench (for comps) are as or more important than abs, and equally important as big arms, quads, and especially a big yolk. Yes, this is the bodybuilding forum but the boundaries are gray (IMO).
Contrary to popular belief as supplement companies and mens’s mags would have you believe, there are some women (like my hot wife) who like BIG men, not extra medium metrosexuals with abs and ‘a new haircut’. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it certainly allows some leway as I’m not out to impress chicks. That’s not to say “obese” is OK, either.
This whole phrase of “look good naked” is, IMO, just a justification for small lean dudes to justify their inability to get big. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with it, but the idea that someone doesn’t think you look good naked because you’re not RIPPED is absurd.
I get off on the fact my bench and squat bends the bar sitting on the rack. I do that for ME ,not women, not TN, not my wife. I get off on the fact people approach me about lifting while I’m in my clothes, which is 99% of the time. I’m quite comforatable with myself at the beach with no shirt, and have had people approach me about lifting as well (not to ask me if I’ve been beached and would I like to be put back in the water and would I like some krill).
I’m taking the airline landing approach to cuttng-- you know how they announce the plane is now descending, but it takes another hour to get on the ground? It took 5 years to get big, no rush to come down.
For me, this is all about the long game. My physique now is just a snapshot point in time, it’s not the final destination. I can see the long goal and have the patience to do it.
Thanks for reading.
TL;DR
- In for the long game
- Patience
- Comfortable with self
- Means-to-ends
[/quote]
So much win here.
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
My belly serves too many purposes for me to get rid of it lol! its a perfect spot for my remote control.
As Steely said about his wife, my wife as well is not into skinny dudes and likes me big and bulky and Im happy to try and oblige her. [/quote]
Dammit, you so sexxay MattyXL