[quote]1000yardstare wrote:
ill read thru the links posted.
i lurk here quite a bit, very rarely post, but i get a kick out of the trends that sweep the industry, and in particular, this board. right now its peri workout carbs. and then this guy above claims, with all the arrogance of someone who just received the word of god, that taking in post workout carbs is not just within the premature stages of debate, but fucking outdated.
eat a damn sweet potatoe and chicken before you lift, then throw in some dextrose and whey afterwards and call it day lol. [/quote]
You dense clown.
The point of my post was about the insulin. Not the carbs.
Hence the reference to catecholamines.
Go back to ‘rarely posting’ if this is all youre going to come up with.
Don’t make me throw down another smiley face Oh I just went there. Deal.
Anyways… I just posted this on another thread but it seems fitting here as well (although not directly related but seriously it can be helpful to some people here I hope - forgive the mini-hijack):
Exercise and sleep are some of the best ways to manipulate GH (besides injecting it). Sleep quality is instrumental though, as to the amount of GH you produce (which occurs 1 hour into sleep) <= which is maximized by darkness of a room and diet rich in protein (and I’m sure other things). Lesson is to eat well (think low glycemic, aka bodybuilder diet --if you eat carbs throughout the day balance them with protein, and eat plenty of healthy fats. Also I would say to impose a carb cut off around 3-4 hours before bed - solely because carbs can and do affect sleep induced GH output. If you train in the evening, it’s a tricky situation though as you’re supposed to wait now at least 60 minutes post training (according to CT’s method) to take in carbs post workout as the catecholamines mess with insulin production. But high glycemic carbs and starchy carbs pre workout and at other times of the day can be okay if the BBer or athlete is training hard enough. Keep in mind though that carbs raise insulin, and insulin has an inverse relationship with HGH.
Also, hydration level has been shown to be positively correlated to HGH (although I think someone once mentioned (in a discussion on this site) to me the opposite is true, but I’m gonna go with what this study says until proven otherwise as this study looks pretty solid)
As for training, you have to spend at least 10 minutes training at or above lactate threshold.
I think the whole amino acid thing is a little sketchy as I’ve seen studies and recommendations all across the board on this topic. Also studies have shown that multiple daily sessions can give rise to optimal human growth hormone (hGH) secretion over a 24-hour period. This last point is intuitive if you think about it… bust your ass several times a day and your body comp (presumably due to GH) will be drastically improved due to the constant high level of GH in your system. Also studies have shown that longer rest periods between the multiple daily session led to the highest daily output (at least 3 hours according to the study is adequate).
**If you are an athlete, I would say it’s more than okay to take in carbs post training in the few days leading up to an event though.
One article I read is pretty much sums it up nicely and is in line with most of the other research I’ve read to date:
In summary, then, exercise above lactate threshold induces the secretion of human growth hormone (hGH), promoting the use of fat as fuel. This, in turn, spares muscle carbohydrate, keeps body fat down and muscle mass high and enhances adaptation to specific exercise stimuli. The benefits are clear, but simply switching to high intensity work for the whole year is not the answer; rather, a periodized program, where the number of sprints or higher intensity workouts alters according to the competitive program, is the best way forward.
A suggested exercise and dietary strategy for optimizing human growth hormone (hGH) secretion is as follows:
* Exercise â?? three sessions per week, each involving at least 10 minutesâ?? work above lactate threshold or a number of sprints, with a 1:3 work-rest ratio;
* During exercise â?? plenty of plain water (ie 200 ml every 10-15 minutes if training in 18-21°C);
* After exercise â?? avoid sugar for two hours post exercise but take 25g protein immediately afterward in the form of either a protein shake, protein bar, lean meat or eggs
[quote]BT - (this is more or less what I do, although I get double or triple the protein suggestion using a CH pulse ~30 minutes post workout and a meal with salmon, eggs, shrimp, or chicken along with coconut oil - the MCTs (which are readily avail for energy) from coconut oil is great for a non carb source of calories IMO, but see below about fat… also the cholesterol from eggs/shrimp I feel is good for recovery but I don’t have any evidence to support this, at least not the timing aspect.), about another half hour after that.
If bulking and or not dieting you can easily up this amount of protein and coconut oil higher, and also you can feel free to have as much carbs as you like (if not right before bed)… so I advocate training early enough in the day to manage this [/quote]
Also the author says “Before exercise â?? no fat for 60 minutes before, 2g glutamine 60-90 minutes before” but The glutamine thing sounds unsubstantiated, although I’m not saying it’s false. I’m also not sure about why the “no fat” preworkout thing is recommended. The other stuff looks solid though. Anybody??
Oh, and possibly Z12, magnesium, and possibly alpha GPC before bed may help GH as well and certainly helps with sleep quality and consequently recovery.
oh, and for the OP if you must time your BJJ so that if falls after your weight training, then I suppose carbs will be necessary, although you COULD try going without them until an hour or two after BJJ, but really with that much training, a few carbs honestly won’t kill you, or anyone else. I just think you could maximize your efforts with the methods that have been described here. Better would be to separate your (weight and BJJ sparring, etc) sessions by 3 or more hours, and do something similar to the Anaconda protocol. It does not appear to me to be just a trend as 1000yardstare stated, because there is actual science as results to back it, even this early on. Again if you don’t agree with it, then post why you don’t like it from a scientific perspective or at least say some theoretical or even moral reason as to why you don’t like it. Otherwise keep your posting to a minimum like BONEZ said
Thanks bullerproof your the only one on here really being a big help! I am looking into this pre carb feeding and will give it a try to see how it goes.
CT talks about it in a scattered manner. I don’t think there’s much as far as an organized thread exclusively for this one topic, at least not one I know about. It is discussed pretty well though in the links I posted before.
[quote]Merida Trainer wrote:
who is CT by the way? [/quote]
serious?[/quote]
New to this website douche bag! and dont really care much about meat headed body builders. This website is just here to promote its product… Every time and anytime i ask some one to give me a natural or cheaper way to get results… no matter what every one keeps pointing fingers to Biotest… this website is a joke for real athletes.
[quote]Merida Trainer wrote:
who is CT by the way? [/quote]
serious?[/quote]
New to this website douche bag! and dont really care much about meat headed body builders. This website is just here to promote its product… Every time and anytime i ask some one to give me a natural or cheaper way to get results… no matter what every one keeps pointing fingers to Biotest… this website is a joke for real athletes.[/quote]
So leave. No one gives a fuck about you.
The unproved and unwarranted hostility you display in this post shows how insecure you actually are as a “man”. You wont be missed.
New to this website douche bag! and dont really care much about meat headed body builders. This website is just here to promote its product… Every time and anytime i ask some one to give me a natural or cheaper way to get results… no matter what every one keeps pointing fingers to Biotest… this website is a joke for real athletes.[/quote]
I think you’ve gotten it wrong. This site is put on by Biotest. They also make some really good products. Try them, don’t try them, offer cheaper alternatives, that’s fine.
I think what people are reacting to, is the manner in which you can in here and posted a bunch of “facts” that are widely discussed and debated elsewhere on this site. There are many, great, experienced, serious athletes here.
Everyone gets comfy in their place, when someone new comes in and starts making assertions like it’s gospel, the guys who have seem it and done it chime in.
Did you come to this site to learn what you can (and I’m sure you can discriminate good info from bad), or did you show up to “teach us all how it’s done?”, because when your first posts are making statements instead of asking questions, it comes off as the latter.
lol thats a good one my friend. being i train with people like Felipe Costa and other great bjj fighters which you dont even know being your not a bjj fighter, keep your mouth shut! you too are just another mirror gazer!
What the fuck ever, why are you even here if you are so great and know everything? To help us out? Please.
All you’ve done is act like an arrogant dick. So take your superiority complex somewhere else. No one cares.
Fucking acting like telling us about raisins is something that makes you worth something.
P.S. You don’t know my goals or training motives so stop making yourself seem even stupider than you already have.
Did it occur to you that people werent offering whey protein over MAG-10 simply because MAG-10 is a superior product? Believe it or not but Biotest DOES have whey protein powder too, yet no one was pushing that on you because for your purposes, MAG-10 is a better choice. Something to think about.
ahhhhhhhhhh shit. i thinkz i just heard a callout lol
whoop this ignorant muffuckas ass, bonez!
…Listen man. i dont know who you think you are(and i think im givivng you credit here) but when you step into “supplement-land” you walk into a whole new game, brother. learn from these guys. -hell, CT’s pushing the envelope daily in this field. Educate thy self, BE COURTEOUS-- and we’ll all benefit. peace
[quote]Merida Trainer wrote:
Bonez are you really in belgium… i hope your not belgian because i am and i didnt think they made pricks like you in belgium[/quote]
Fuck no I’m not belgian.
Youre just a clown, regardless of where youre from. I don’t discriminate when I tell people that theyre complete fools.
Has it ever occured to you that you are posting on a moderated forum and that there is a financial incentive for the moderators to promote Biotest products over products you can find on supermarket shelves?
You think you know what youre talking about but you dont.
If you want to find products that help performance do some damned research. Find out why the best products on this site do what they do and try to replicate it with stuff you can buy locally. Good luck.
And im not even a big supplement user. I try things sold here and they tend to work well but I dont buy many supplements in the first place.
And you should tone down all the talk about other men’s dicks. Its a little weird.
Any grief you’re getting from people is entirely brought on by the way you act.
Look you knucklehead, in your other thread, I specifically explained that this website is about building muscle, first and foremost. I also explained very clearly that the site is owned and operated by Biotest, and most members here appreciate the quality of Biotest products.
You should know that by now, so if you’re going to stick around and try to learn more, take a breath, pull the stick out of your ass, as stop being such a prick with the whole “I train BJJ” routine. If I went onto a BJJ forum and started talking about how much bigger and stronger I was than every brown belt there, I’d be an asshole, right? Well… that’s you right now. Adjust your attitude or take a hike. Simple.
Oh I just went there. Deal.