Skinny-Fat Bulk or Cut? Pics Included - Help!

Training
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So here is another 3 month progress picture.
Current pictures: 137lb (+5lb)

It’s been 6 months in total and as you can see nothing has changed (original pictures in the OP).
I just put on slightly more fat around my mid region… can definitely notice it wearing t-shirts more.

Diet has been super clean, weight increase around 0.5lb/week and my lifts improved A LOT.

Squat: 5x 88lb > 5x 175lb
Bench: 5x 105lb > 4x132lb
Deadlift: 5x 130lb > 7x 180lb
Press: 5x 60lb > 5x 85lb
Row: 5x 75lb > 5x 120lb

I just don’t understand whats going wrong?
I am getting really frustrated and annoyed comparing all the pictures and looking back cause I really felt like I did everything right and it’s really frustrating to not see any positive visual changes whatsoever.

Surely I should have seen some difference or indication by now?

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You have been getting better at the lifts, not stronger. You have improved your skill at moving heavier weights, and this has translated into more weight being lifted, but it has not equated into muscle being developed. When you “grind”, this is when you develop strength and size. With your approach of resetting the weight whenever you failed to hit 5 reps rather than sticking with that weight and grinding out more reps over future training sessions, you were missing this element.

This is why weight goals for movements as a metric for success in terms of gaining size tends to be poor. There are many ways to increase how much weight is lifted, and though getting bigger and stronger is one of them, in many cases it’s simply an instance of getting better at the lift (more efficient, better leverages, using more muscles, etc).

I think with your current plan you will see more success. It might also be beneficial to look into a plan with more assistance work. I like 5/3/1 myself.

243

Thanks for replying.

It’s mega frustrating and I really just feel like I want to do a new workout with a lot more frequency and maybe 4 days a week now as I really thought I would have a slightly better body recomp after 6 months of following it to a tee…

I followed the GSLP book exactly as laid out including the deloads (which he states will help promote hypertrophy when you can achieve high reps on the last set) and it seems like a lot of people got results from doing it his way and it was highly recommended on this forum too.

I wouldn’t be surprised if another 6 months go by with my current plan and nothing changes which is why I am getting really frustrated.

I really thought I would have seen some type of difference by now so it is really demotivating.

What template would you recommend with 5/3/1?
I really feel like I need to do something different or I will go insane!

My weight also didn’t change for 1.5-2 weeks on 2500 calories, should I increase them by another 100-200? Although I am really hating the fat gain and I feel like I am back to square one physique wise.

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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
You have been getting better at the lifts, not stronger. You have improved your skill at moving heavier weights, and this has translated into more weight being lifted, but it has not equated into muscle being developed. When you “grind”, this is when you develop strength and size. With your approach of resetting the weight whenever you failed to hit 5 reps rather than sticking with that weight and grinding out more reps over future training sessions, you were missing this element.

This is why weight goals for movements as a metric for success in terms of gaining size tends to be poor. There are many ways to increase how much weight is lifted, and though getting bigger and stronger is one of them, in many cases it’s simply an instance of getting better at the lift (more efficient, better leverages, using more muscles, etc).

I think with your current plan you will see more success. It might also be beneficial to look into a plan with more assistance work. I like 5/3/1 myself.[/quote]

This x 100

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[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Thanks for replying.

It’s mega frustrating and I really just feel like I want to do a new workout with a lot more frequency and maybe 4 days a week now as I really thought I would have a slightly better body recomp after 6 months of following it to a tee…

I followed the GSLP book exactly as laid out including the deloads (which he states will help promote hypertrophy when you can achieve high reps on the last set) and it seems like a lot of people got results from doing it his way and it was highly recommended on this forum too.

I wouldn’t be surprised if another 6 months go by with my current plan and nothing changes which is why I am getting really frustrated.

I really thought I would have seen some type of difference by now so it is really demotivating.

What template would you recommend with 5/3/1?
I really feel like I need to do something different or I will go insane!

My weight also didn’t change for 1.5-2 weeks on 2500 calories, should I increase them by another 100-200? Although I am really hating the fat gain and I feel like I am back to square one physique wise.

[/quote]

I like BBB to start with on 5/3/1. It helps to switch the assistance work with the primary lift (ie: 5x10 squats on deadlift day, 5x10 bench on press day, etc) to get more frequency with the lift each week.

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The workout template you run is way less important than you think it is… I don’t know what needs to be said to get this through to you. The intensity applied to the workout is what counts. Your workout template should simply be one that suits you mentally well enough for you to attack it ferociously.

The diet actually looks fine. And I don’t think you’re gaining too much fat based on the pictures. I honestly don’t see that you’ve gained any. It still bothers me that your progress is so slow though. If you’re actually eating like you posted every day, then there are a few things I would consider. One would be to get bloodwork. I still think there is value in this. Another would be to really consider whether or not you’re working as hard in the gym as you need to be. I don’t believe you should be doing ‘deloads’ at all. That’s garbage at your level.

Since you don’t seem to be gaining fat (contrary to your own opinion), I might add a couple hundred calories, mostly in carbs and fat, to your diet. You’re taking in plenty of protein. 200g should be more than enough. That’s more than what I eat.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:
The workout template you run is way less important than you think it is… I don’t know what needs to be said to get this through to you. The intensity applied to the workout is what counts. Your workout template should simply be one that suits you mentally well enough for you to attack it ferociously.

The diet actually looks fine. And I don’t think you’re gaining too much fat based on the pictures. I honestly don’t see that you’ve gained any. It still bothers me that your progress is so slow though. If you’re actually eating like you posted every day, then there are a few things I would consider. One would be to get bloodwork. I still think there is value in this. Another would be to really consider whether or not you’re working as hard in the gym as you need to be. I don’t believe you should be doing ‘deloads’ at all. That’s garbage at your level.

Since you don’t seem to be gaining fat (contrary to your own opinion), I might add a couple hundred calories, mostly in carbs and fat, to your diet. You’re taking in plenty of protein. 200g should be more than enough. That’s more than what I eat.[/quote]
^Alright, OP, this and previous advice should be far more than sufficient. Personally, I think you’re training like a wuss. It would benefit you to watch big, strong guys in the gym and see how they execute each rep on their heavy sets.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:
The workout template you run is way less important than you think it is… I don’t know what needs to be said to get this through to you. The intensity applied to the workout is what counts. Your workout template should simply be one that suits you mentally well enough for you to attack it ferociously.

[/quote]

Exactly this. It’s why I asked the question of “what is a hypertrophy routine”, and wasn’t too shocked when it was ignored. It’s hard to find a routine where following it won’t result in growth, as long as the effort is applied.

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read this thread in one sitting
i think it all comes down to you are scared
scared of getting fat
scared of doing the wrong thing
scared of not useing proper form
like someone else said watch people who got results train watch their,form ,effort
watch videos of big name people train watch thier intensity
this is a long term game

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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
The workout template you run is way less important than you think it is… I don’t know what needs to be said to get this through to you. The intensity applied to the workout is what counts. Your workout template should simply be one that suits you mentally well enough for you to attack it ferociously.

[/quote]

Exactly this. It’s why I asked the question of “what is a hypertrophy routine”, and wasn’t too shocked when it was ignored. It’s hard to find a routine where following it won’t result in growth, as long as the effort is applied.[/quote]

I feel like if you looked at the work I’ve done over the past year strictly in like a ‘template’ form, like just reps, sets, rest periods, number of workouts per week, time in the gym, etc. you would say ‘that dude barely even lifts!’ and you would probably assume I’ve made zero progress. Because in truth, my programming is garbage. It has to be near the worst of anyone who regularly posts on this site. I do, like, 2 things right. I select only the best lifts to perform regularly, and I work harder while I’m in the gym than anyone I know. That’s it. Outside of the gym, I make excellent food choices for 80-90% of my caloric intake.

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[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
The workout template you run is way less important than you think it is… I don’t know what needs to be said to get this through to you. The intensity applied to the workout is what counts. Your workout template should simply be one that suits you mentally well enough for you to attack it ferociously.

[/quote]

Exactly this. It’s why I asked the question of “what is a hypertrophy routine”, and wasn’t too shocked when it was ignored. It’s hard to find a routine where following it won’t result in growth, as long as the effort is applied.[/quote]

Agreed.

OP, one thing I don’t think has been addressed here is whether you’ve ever tried lifting with someone who is more advanced and/or has himself developed an appreciable level of strength.

I was training someone for a spell back in law school who was similarly meticulous as you are regarding the issues surrounding a workout that are necessary for success–diet, routine, etc. He was frustrated with his lack of progress so asked me to help him out.

When I was looking at what he was doing, it struck me that he had no real athletic background prior to lifting, and he frankly just did not know how to physically exert himself. ThePWNisher was spot-on when he said that you are probably only improving at the lifts themselves instead of getting stronger. For my friend, the real challenge was teaching him how to “fight against” something instead of just “testing how strong he was.”

Although many people take naturally to lifting perhaps due to a background in other athletics or as a child just having spent a lot of time in play, for some that does not come as naturally. You may want to consider whether you’re really exerting yourself in a proper way or whether, like my friend, you just don’t really know from a biomechanical/motor perspective how to exert yourself yet. I’m frankly not a big proponent of spending money on personal trainers when most are some degree of snake oil peddlers, but it might be a good idea to invest in a personal trainer for a few months–not one who is online but instead one who can be on the ground and observe how you exert yourself during your sessions. Explain to him or her beforehand that you are bringing them on for this specific purpose and that any help they could provide would be the real goal of your interaction.

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Based on the pics, your “fat gain” is in your head.

Follow the advice above. No more deloads. Lift with intensity, consistency, and increasing volume, and gain 20 lbs.

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[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I feel like if you looked at the work I’ve done over the past year strictly in like a ‘template’ form, like just reps, sets, rest periods, number of workouts per week, time in the gym, etc. you would say ‘that dude barely even lifts!’ and you would probably assume I’ve made zero progress. Because in truth, my programming is garbage. It has to be near the worst of anyone who regularly posts on this site. I do, like, 2 things right. I select only the best lifts to perform regularly, and I work harder while I’m in the gym than anyone I know. That’s it. Outside of the gym, I make excellent food choices for 80-90% of my caloric intake.[/quote]

My Saturday workout takes 1.5 hours to do 2 sets, haha. I remember Kroc was talking about this in his training log years back; something about how, as a lifter gets stronger, they perform fewer sets/reps because of the poundages that they are lifting in a workout. Even though the total amount of reps lifted is less than what you’d witness a beginner performing, the amount of weight moved is the same, if not greater.

But yeah, it’s really hard to train wrong, as long as it’s intense.

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It’s a good point to bring up intensity because I haven’t ever trained with anyone who doesn’t truly exert themselves throughout most of a training session but I can see that being a problem if it isn’t something they’re used to.

On average I’ll probably have 5-30 spikes in blood pressure and heart rate over 1-3 hours of training. The time that I rest in between is necessary in order to recover so that I can exert myself again.

I think the switch to 5/3/1 BBB would be a wise one. At this point, the assistance work will make a big difference and it’s what you’re craving for.

255

Thanks all.

Pushing myself:
I feel like I am definitely pushing myself hard in the gym and I am not just saying that. I really learned how to squeeze out an extra rep or two on the squat and bench after someone gave me good advice a few pages/months back in this thread, when I didn’t think it would be possible at all (without a spotter). It literally takes everything for me to get those last reps in and I even feel myself getting angry with the weight when I really want to do 5 reps on the last set… LOL! “I will do it no matter what” is the sort of mindset I go in with now.

I already had a very good PT for the first couple of weeks to make sure my form and everything else was good.

Workout Program:
My biggest problem with this greyskull workout that I am doing is that I don’t think there is enough volume, on my days off all I want to do is to be back in the gym.
The amount of time I need to recover after each set has definitely increased a lot in the past few weeks as I have increased weight but I still don’t feel like it was enough volume, I don’t know what I am basing that on but that’s just how my body feels I guess.
I am basically doing 3x5 on most sets/exercises now since I increased the weight a lot, unless I am deloading - so it looks a lot like the Starting Strength workout.
I never really get DOMs the next day anymore either, but I do need to foam roll my legs a lot as they have started to get very tight.

The 5/3/1 BBB looks very good, I think I would much prefer that but it doesn’t look like I’ll be seeing weekly progression on it compared to GSLP?
Is that a bad thing right now?

I plugged all my current lifts into www.strengthstandards.co and it looks like most of my lifts (apart from deadlift) are close to the intermediate stage based on my weight.

Gaining weight
It might not look like it from the pictures but I definitely have put on a fat, mostly around my moobs and gut. It’s very noticeable wearing a tshirt and I have had a few people tease me about it in the past few weeks!

Apart from doing GSLP 3x a week, I am doing cardio maybe 2-3x a week at medium pace for 20-30 minutes and not much else apart from that. I have a long hour desk job so I am not sure if the lack of activity is contributing.

256

On the topic of workout intensity, I just don’t know how much more intense I could actually get on the GSLP workout.

I did a 4-day split before where each and every exercise was supersets, with 15-30 sec rest between sets and I found that way way more tougher than this current workout. I really learned how to push myself on that program and my cardio definitely improved a lot as well. I just don’t get the same feeling on GSLP even though I am pushing myself to what I feel is my max on every exercise.

I have steadily and consistently increased the weight on each exercise and my form has been really good so I don’t really know what’s going wrong, which is why I am starting to think that I just need more volume.

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[quote]peetpeew wrote:
The 5/3/1 BBB looks very good, I think I would much prefer that but it doesn’t look like I’ll be seeing weekly progression on it compared to GSLP?
[/quote]

Why not?

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[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Thanks all.

Pushing myself:
I feel like I am definitely pushing myself hard in the gym and I am not just saying that. I really learned how to squeeze out an extra rep or two on the squat and bench after someone gave me good advice a few pages/months back in this thread, when I didn’t think it would be possible at all (without a spotter). It literally takes everything for me to get those last reps in and I even feel myself getting angry with the weight when I really want to do 5 reps on the last set… LOL! “I will do it no matter what” is the sort of mindset I go in with now.

[/quote]
That’s what everyone I’ve met in real life says until I show them how to get tense and explode the weight up from the start of each set and maintain the intention to explode despite fatigue level and actual bar speed. They usually get 3 or more reps over their previous maxes. On a balance of probabilities, I doubt you’re any different.

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[quote]peetpeew wrote:
On the topic of workout intensity, I just don’t know how much more intense I could actually get on the GSLP workout.

I did a 4-day split before where each and every exercise was supersets, with 15-30 sec rest between sets and I found that way way more tougher than this current workout. I really learned how to push myself on that program and my cardio definitely improved a lot as well. I just don’t get the same feeling on GSLP even though I am pushing myself to what I feel is my max on every exercise.

I have steadily and consistently increased the weight on each exercise and my form has been really good so I don’t really know what’s going wrong, which is why I am starting to think that I just need more volume.
[/quote]

Shortening your rest time doesn’t necessarily indicate that you’re working hard to build strength. As you said: it was tougher and you improved cardio. When building strength, you need to rest as much as necessary to really hit the next set as hard as you can. If you NEED to rest for a long time in order to perform at a high level then you’re likely pushing strength work hard. I have had sessions where I had to rest 10 minutes between every set for 10 sets and it was the only way to complete every rep and set. Try not to mix the feeling of sustained intensity via cardio with peak intensity from strength training (which can vary from low to high reps, short to long time under tension, etc. - max exertion might be a better description).

The only thing I would caution with when starting 5/3/1 is not to go to true failure often. It’s okay to attempt PRs and push yourself but consistently missing reps isn’t a good idea either.

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[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Thanks all.

Pushing myself:
I feel like I am definitely pushing myself hard in the gym and I am not just saying that. I really learned how to squeeze out an extra rep or two on the squat and bench after someone gave me good advice a few pages/months back in this thread, when I didn’t think it would be possible at all (without a spotter). It literally takes everything for me to get those last reps in and I even feel myself getting angry with the weight when I really want to do 5 reps on the last set… LOL! “I will do it no matter what” is the sort of mindset I go in with now.

I already had a very good PT for the first couple of weeks to make sure my form and everything else was good.

Workout Program:
My biggest problem with this greyskull workout that I am doing is that I don’t think there is enough volume, on my days off all I want to do is to be back in the gym.
The amount of time I need to recover after each set has definitely increased a lot in the past few weeks as I have increased weight but I still don’t feel like it was enough volume, I don’t know what I am basing that on but that’s just how my body feels I guess.
I am basically doing 3x5 on most sets/exercises now since I increased the weight a lot, unless I am deloading - so it looks a lot like the Starting Strength workout.
I never really get DOMs the next day anymore either, but I do need to foam roll my legs a lot as they have started to get very tight.

The 5/3/1 BBB looks very good, I think I would much prefer that but it doesn’t look like I’ll be seeing weekly progression on it compared to GSLP?
Is that a bad thing right now?

I plugged all my current lifts into www.strengthstandards.co and it looks like most of my lifts (apart from deadlift) are close to the intermediate stage based on my weight.

Gaining weight
It might not look like it from the pictures but I definitely have put on a fat, mostly around my moobs and gut. It’s very noticeable wearing a tshirt and I have had a few people tease me about it in the past few weeks!

Apart from doing GSLP 3x a week, I am doing cardio maybe 2-3x a week at medium pace for 20-30 minutes and not much else apart from that. I have a long hour desk job so I am not sure if the lack of activity is contributing.
[/quote]

If you have that much energy left over, doing a bit more intense cardio work like sprints and rowing would have helped. As long as you aren’t going all out all the time and affecting recovery for lifting. Just being more active without affecting recovery will help change your body composition.

Adding in a bunch of isolation work isn’t a bad idea either if you have the energy and recovery for it. Same thing applies where you don’t go all out. I think you can use more work for your shoulders, arm, back, and hips. Sometimes a simple program with compound movements work well for beginners, sometimes more bodybuilding type work helps because the compound lifts may not stimulate enough muscle groups.