Skinny-Fat Bulk or Cut? Pics Included - Help!

Training
221

[quote]craze9 wrote:
I really don’t understand how your bench was stalled for 7 weeks. You just kept doing the same thing every week?

Listen to Punisher.[/quote]

No, I dropped the weight by 10%.

I would then work my way back up, adding 1lb each time.

I was able to do 1-3 extra reps on the last set (as many reps as possible) on previous weight.
But once I got back to 135lb/61kg I would fail at 4 reps again.

I would then drop by 10% and work my way back up, again beating the previous weight record by a extra rep or 2 on the last set, but same thing happens again at 135lb/61kg.

222

Bench Stats for last set (As many reps as possible)
Got 5 reps on the first 2 sets for everything so I’ll exclude them.

Week 3: 6 x 110lb
Week 4: 6 x 115lb
Week 5a: 4 x 120lb (deload)
Week 5b: 10 x 110lb (+4 reps)
Week 6: 8 x 115lb (+2 reps)
Week 7a: 6 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 7b: 5 x 124lb
Week 8: 5 x 127lb
Week 8b: 5 x 130lb
Week 9: 5 x 132lb
Week 10: 3 x 134lb (deload)
Week 10b: 8 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 11: 6 x 127lb
Week 12: 6 x 130lb (+1 rep)
Week 13: 4 x 132lb (deload)
Week 13b: 8 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 14: 8 x 124lb (+3 reps)
Week 15: 8 x 126.5lb (+3 reps)

That’s the progression so far.
As you can see I get stronger when I deload and I can lift a few extra reps, but once I get to the 132lb mark it’s extremely difficult again.

223

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Bench Stats for last set (As many reps as possible)
Got 5 reps on the first 2 sets for everything so I’ll exclude them.

Week 3: 6 x 110lb
Week 4: 6 x 115lb
Week 5a: 4 x 120lb (deload)
Week 5b: 10 x 110lb (+4 reps)
Week 6: 8 x 115lb (+2 reps)
Week 7a: 6 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 7b: 5 x 124lb
Week 8: 5 x 127lb
Week 8b: 5 x 130lb
Week 9: 5 x 132lb
Week 10: 3 x 134kg (deload)
Week 10b: 8 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 11: 6 x 127lb
Week 12: 6 x 130lb (+1 rep)
Week 13: 4 x 132lb (deload)
Week 13b: 8 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 14: 8 x 124lb (+3 reps)
Week 15: 8 x 126.5lb (+3 reps)

That’s the progression so far.
As you can see I get stronger when I deload and I can lift a few extra reps, but once I get to the 132lb mark it’s extremely difficult again.

[/quote]

You went from 110x6 to 126x8 and you say you got weaker?

224

Hey, no I didn’t say I got weaker anywhere - Just that I think I hit a sticking point on bench/rows/press whereas squat and deadlift were increasing consistently.

I am definitely so much stronger than I was 8 weeks ago!
But I am not seeing much of a difference physically except fat gain which was my initial worry.

225

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Hey, no I didn’t say I got weaker anywhere - Just that I think I hit a sticking point on bench/rows/press whereas squat and deadlift were increasing consistently.

I am definitely so much stronger than I was 8 weeks ago!
But I am not seeing much of a difference physically except fat gain which was my initial worry. [/quote]

If you see fat gain (measure your waist circumference - has it increased?), you’re eating a tad too much. This does not mean you should immediately cut 1,000 calories from your diet, just try how a teeny bit less food works for you.

If you have increased your strength in higher rep ranges, those sticking points will eventually fall. It’s just a matter of time if you stick to it.

See, Getting bigger and stronger isn’t difficult; if it were, the stereotypical meathead would not be so dumb. It just takes more times than you ever thought it would. Put 80lbs on your squat 5rm and you will look bigger if your form hasn’t changed (!), but you won’t have transformed into the Hulk.

226

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Week 8b: 5 x 130lb
Week 9: 5 x 132lb
Week 10: 3 x 134lb (deload)

…

Week 12: 6 x 130lb (+1 rep)
Week 13: 4 x 132lb (deload)

[/quote]

First of all, this is a great example of logging becoming useful.

Look at these two points in your progression. In both cases, you lost two reps due to adding two pounds of weight. There is no conceivable physical reason for this, unless you had a bad day on the latter. What’s more likely is your mind saying “oh, right, that’s the weight I usually mess up with… Whoop, there you go, failed the reps. Better deload.” As if deloading is this magical tool that will tell your muscles to really get ready for another run on the castle two weeks from now.

Look, muscles are stupid. Deloads become a really valuable tool once you’ve exhausted your body and driven it to a point where it needs a break. You need the opposite.

227

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Hey, no I didn’t say I got weaker anywhere - Just that I think I hit a sticking point on bench/rows/press whereas squat and deadlift were increasing consistently.

I am definitely so much stronger than I was 8 weeks ago!
But I am not seeing much of a difference physically except fat gain which was my initial worry. [/quote]

Still making progress so keep it up. You’re consistently handling more volume and the weight jumps are small so it’s more difficult to see a noticeable improvement in weight. Don’t worry about it though because it looks like you can still make progress with volume for a long time. Multiply reps x weight to give you an idea of your workload improvement over time and it’ll become clearer. Just don’t live and die by the volume numbers because other factors are important too - it’s just a way to quantify progress for now.

When the volume progress stalls completely it can be beneficial to focus a bit more on intensity by sticking to 5 reps and increasing the weight each week. I bet you are very close to hitting 135 for 5 reps if you made this switch. But hold that off for as long as possible because there’s no point in building up to 5 x 135 now when you can blow past it later on.

Another thing you can do is look at the performance over a 3 week period and take an average. It’ll give you a better idea of the trend by removing peaks and valleys.

228

I’m late to this party so maybe this has already been covered, but have you even gotten blood work done to look at your thyroid and sex hormones? “Low test” has become a popular copout for people who don’t want to work hard or eat enough, but legitimate cases can shortchange your progress like nothing else.

229

[quote]nighthawkz wrote:
See, Getting bigger and stronger isn’t difficult; if it were, the stereotypical meathead would not be so dumb. [/quote]

This is something that I think bears emphasis, as it’s something that is getting lost these days among new trainees.

I’d clarify it to say that getting bigger and stronger IS difficult, but it’s not at all complicated, and that’s what is throwing people off. Gurus who are interested in getting money from the uneducated have made a business out of selling the idea that lifting weights is a mathematical endeavor.

“If you want to get bigger, you just do X reps, and if you want to get stronger, you do Y reps”

And so, beginner trainees are sold on the idea that results are incumbent upon having the correct formula. As long as they do X many reps, they’ll achieve their goals.

The human element has been lost.

The reality is that success is dictated primarily by effort, with programming being amazingly low on the scale of variables. I know that’s going to chaff a lot of folks, but programming really only starts to become important once we get towards the peak of our ability, not the start of it.

People are constantly making amazing progress with abysmally stupid programs because they put in full tilt skull shattering insane effort and intensity into the training. I’ve actually gotten to the point in my training that I intentionally try to find the dumbest way to do something, because it seems to actually be getting me better results than when I play it safe (watch my squat workouts on my log every Saturday if you want evidence, haha).

Trying to keep this rant shortish, but yeah, it’s not complicated at all. It’s very difficult, but if it wasn’t, more people would be in shape.

230

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Bench Stats for last set (As many reps as possible)
Got 5 reps on the first 2 sets for everything so I’ll exclude them.

Week 3: 6 x 110lb
Week 4: 6 x 115lb
Week 5a: 4 x 120lb (deload)
Week 5b: 10 x 110lb (+4 reps)
Week 6: 8 x 115lb (+2 reps)
Week 7a: 6 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 7b: 5 x 124lb
Week 8: 5 x 127lb
Week 8b: 5 x 130lb
Week 9: 5 x 132lb
Week 10: 3 x 134lb (deload)
Week 10b: 8 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 11: 6 x 127lb
Week 12: 6 x 130lb (+1 rep)
Week 13: 4 x 132lb (deload)
Week 13b: 8 x 120lb (+2 reps)
Week 14: 8 x 124lb (+3 reps)
Week 15: 8 x 126.5lb (+3 reps)

That’s the progression so far.
As you can see I get stronger when I deload and I can lift a few extra reps, but once I get to the 132lb mark it’s extremely difficult again.

[/quote]

OK this isn’t actually THAT bad, as you were still adding reps (and total volume) during most of those 7 weeks. But I do think it shows the problem with resetting too easily / frequently.

You have to at least re-attempt the top weight once or twice before resetting. And I think in most cases it’s better to find other ways of progressing, either with more sets as Punisher outlined above or by increasing weight and lowering the target reps. E.g., you get 132lbs for 5/5/3 and then next week aim for 136 3/3/3 (a slight volume deload) and keep adding weight to the 3x3 for as long as possible. THEN you reset when that stalls. This way you’ve incorporated a whole new zone of intensity (heavier weights) and when you drop back to a much lighter weight it is more of a contrast in load.

231

Thanks for all the advice.

I just got back from the gym and I took the advice from earlier and reattempted 176lb (80kg) squat and did 5/5/4/1 reps.

So already an improvement from last workout (5/4/3) and I didn’t have to deload and spend another 3-4 weeks getting back up… It feels good!

I also managed 8x130lb on bench (+2 reps from 3 weeks ago) so we will see how 132lb goes next week.

I will try reduce my calories by a bit to try and reduce the fat gain. I am gaining 0.5lb/week so I thought I was on the right track but I did have excess fat to begin with as you can see from the pictures on page 2 or 3.

Anyways, I will post pictures on Monday.

232

You’re stalling on your lifts, and you want to REDUCE your calories? Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I’m reading.

I’ve seen a whole lot of talk on this thread, particularly the last few pages, about training specifics, and nothing about diet. I feel like something is likely amiss there. I don’t believe progression should be this slow at your level if diet is good.

Trevor’s comment about getting bloodwork done is reasonable as well. It’s not particularly expensive, so if I were you, I would get some done. Specifically thyroid/test-related panel.

233

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
I just got back from the gym and I took the advice from earlier and reattempted 176lb (80kg) squat and did 5/5/4/1 reps.

So already an improvement from last workout (5/4/3) and I didn’t have to deload and spend another 3-4 weeks getting back up… It feels good!

I also managed 8x130lb on bench (+2 reps from 3 weeks ago) so we will see how 132lb goes next week.
[/quote]

That’s awesome!

234

[quote]peetpeew wrote:
Thanks for all the advice.

I just got back from the gym and I took the advice from earlier and reattempted 176lb (80kg) squat and did 5/5/4/1 reps.

So already an improvement from last workout (5/4/3) and I didn’t have to deload and spend another 3-4 weeks getting back up… It feels good!

I also managed 8x130lb on bench (+2 reps from 3 weeks ago) so we will see how 132lb goes next week.

I will try reduce my calories by a bit to try and reduce the fat gain. I am gaining 0.5lb/week so I thought I was on the right track but I did have excess fat to begin with as you can see from the pictures on page 2 or 3.

Anyways, I will post pictures on Monday.[/quote]

You’ve been given a lot of options on what to do and I think they can all work. You can hold the reps at 15 and gradually increase intensity by reducing sets, you can increase the weight with a temporary drop in volume (3x3) before resetting, or continue to do what you’ve done.

IMO, continuing to do what you’ve done is still a good option because it has produced results. It just didn’t seem like it since you were more focused on the weight but in reality it’s great overall progress. You are clearly putting in enough effort to make progress. Deloading after missing 5 reps isn’t necessarily a bad thing if you’re still pushing hard to increase rep count over time. It’s a way to autoregulate and has worked so far.

I don’t think any of the options are significantly better than the others. Like T3hPwnisher said, your effort in and out of the gym will produce the results. There are no shortcuts or a magic formula. Choose the one that provides the greatest level of motivation.

235

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You’re stalling on your lifts, and you want to REDUCE your calories? Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I’m reading.

I’ve seen a whole lot of talk on this thread, particularly the last few pages, about training specifics, and nothing about diet. I feel like something is likely amiss there. I don’t believe progression should be this slow at your level if diet is good.

Trevor’s comment about getting bloodwork done is reasonable as well. It’s not particularly expensive, so if I were you, I would get some done. Specifically thyroid/test-related panel.[/quote]

Agree 100%. How closely are you tracking diet/macros? Getting enough protein and limiting “junk” calories?

I think .5 lbs / week is really quite fine and would not sweat the perceived “fat gain” for now. I think you’re likely overreacting. CT recommends 3lbs / month when trying to gain muscle.

236

I’ll throw my hat into the nutrition ring and say that odds are, instead of focusing on “more” or “less”, the emphasis should be on “better”. I’d also like to hear a sample day’s diet (3 days in a row is even more useful).

237

I am pretty meticulous when it comes to the diet and I track everything very carefully.

Sample workout day:

Meal 1 (pre-workout)
50g porridge oats
20g whey protein
handful blueberries
For a long time I was having meat, nut and veg for this meal (poliquin style) but I found that I was performing better when I switched it to carbs pre-workout.

Meal 2 (post workout shake)
40g whey
50g dextrose
5g glutamine

Meal 3 (post workout meal)
200g lean mince
50-75g white rice
lots of green veg

Meal 4
200g chicken breast
150g sweet potato
lots of green veg
10g coconut oil

Meal 5
75g oats
20g whey protein
blueberries
fish oil
or
eggs/sweet potato/veg
(read from a pretty good coach that a big bowl of porridge near bed time might help you sleep better as I don’t sleep very well).

Meal 6
Pre-Bed shake:
Casein powder
200ml whole milk
20g instant oats
10g peanut butter
Fish oil
10g glutamine

On non-workout days I replace the post-workout meal white rice with sweet potatoes.
My diet looks like this pretty much every day except I rotate the meats with chicken/turkey/beef/tuna.

Totals:
Workout days:
2450-2500 calories
200g~ protein
250g~ carbs
65g~ fat

Non-workout days:
2400-2450 calories
200g~ protein
150-170g~ carbs
90-110g~ fats

Everything is tracked to make sure I meet the macros.

To be honest I almost felt like some fat gain started to show when I started drinking milk and having peanut butter in my bed time shake… but it shouldn’t make that much of a difference right?

Would love to hear any thoughts about my diet.
I used to have some type of meat with all meals and only 2 scoops of whey a day but it got quite expensive and I also decided to increase my carb intake with the help of more oats.

238

If you are gaining fat on the above diet, I STRONGLY suggest you get some bloodwork done. It is entirely possible that you will get a clean bill of health and can check that off the list. However, for a grown man, gaining fat on 2500 calories a day and only being able to add 16.5 lbs to your bench in 15 weeks as a rank beginner would be huge red flags for me.

Worst case scenario, you get the all-clear and can go back to analyzing every facet of your diet and training. Best case scenario, you discover a legitimate health problem and are able to make an informed decision about how to proceed.

I can direct you to private labs and advise on which tests to order if you prefer not to go to the doctor for initial testing. Total investment would be unlikely to exceed $150.

Just my 2 cents.

239

[quote]TrevorLPT wrote:
If you are gaining fat on the above diet, I STRONGLY suggest you get some bloodwork done. It is entirely possible that you will get a clean bill of health and can check that off the list. However, for a grown man, gaining fat on 2500 calories a day and only being able to add 16.5 lbs to your bench in 15 weeks as a rank beginner would be huge red flags for me.

Worst case scenario, you get the all-clear and can go back to analyzing every facet of your diet and training. Best case scenario, you discover a legitimate health problem and are able to make an informed decision about how to proceed.

I can direct you to private labs and advise on which tests to order if you prefer not to go to the doctor for initial testing. Total investment would be unlikely to exceed $150.

Just my 2 cents. [/quote]

Well, he is 5’5 and 137 lbs.

Diet looks good to me. I guess I’m just skeptical you’re gaining “too much” fat, and can tell by looking in the mirror.

Look, you’re going to gain some fat. Even if you’re gaining muscle to fat in a 1-to-1 ratio (which is pretty good), 5lbs of bodyweight isn’t going to necessarily translate into changes that are easily noticeable. Gain another 10 lbs (at same rate, i.e. 20 weeks), and you’ll probably notice improvement in the mirror (assuming good training).

That said, and I think people made this point earlier in the thread – if you’re self-conscious of the fat, and it’s a psychological issue for you, then a mass gain phase right now might not be the best idea.

240

Your nutrition seems fine. Gaining 7 lbs in 4 months is reasonable if you’re making progress and meeting your goal. It’ll just take longer going at a slower rate. At minimum, roughly 0.5 lbs/week is fine. Just learn to eat for strength progress and the muscle mass will come with time. Sometimes that may require a larger caloric surplus sometimes it doesn’t require much. I’ve learned that rushing the weight gain doesn’t necessarily increase muscle growth. Just don’t reduce the surplus down so much that you risk falling behind on recovery.

It might seem like it’s taking a long time to see big results but that’s what it takes. It’s not necessary to speed up the process to meet other people’s expectations if you are making progress at a slow rate. Progress is progress. Keep up the good work.