Go for it. Just make sure you constantly increase the poundages of your chins and rows.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
when back exercises are done properly, they severely limit biceps activation by keeping the elbows in and minimizing biceps flexion… this reduces tension in the biceps and minimizes biceps hypertrophy.
[/quote]
How do you minimize elbow flexion during a back movement if you are doing full range of motion?
I agree that you can limit bicep activation by focusing on contracting the lats/rhomboids, but if you are doing a full pullup, pulldown, row, etc. you are not limiting elbow flexion.
[quote]MODOK wrote:
Of course, if I had eleventeen inch arms I might not want to curl, I suppose.[/quote]
Exactly, this whole thread stinks of the 'ol “I suck at something so I’m just going to stop doing it rather than address the problem”
I absolutely hate squatting, with every fiber of my being. That’s exactly the reason it’s been the first exercise in my leg workouts for a long, long time. Surprise surprise, I’m pretty good at squatting now…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…
This is why I despise the name dropping bullshit that goes on with regards to many trainers lately. All info is disregarded because insert name of trainer whose book you’ve read said so.[/quote]
One thing I love about this site is that the authors don’t always agree on every little item.
This is a good thing if you keep an open mind. Unfortunately too many of the members of the site do not keep an open mind or exercise their critical thinking skills.
If CW’s programs work for you and you do not do curls that is great. Share your experiences. That does not mean curls are useless.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
MODOK wrote:
…Bottom line to the OP’s question; if you want to quit curling, quit…
Sounds like drugs or something. I’ve finally hit bottom folks. I’m powerless over bicep curls and my life has become unmanageable.
You need an intervention.
Apparently, Chad is the person to call.[/quote]
It’s not gonna matter how I say this, it’s gonna sound arrogant and condescending regardless of how it’s phrased.
Most, but certainly not all people just can not or will not think for themselves. Weight training is just another area where this is true. It may subconsciously irritate them, but they want to be told what to do. By this I don’t mean they’re necessarily stupid, it’s just easier for somebody else to do the analysis and dictate the conclusions.
These folks are a ready made client base for people in the information/services industries. This doesn’t mean the practitioners have to be charlatans or the consumers have to idiots, though there are plenty of both. That’s just the way it’s always been and it isn’t going to change.
I don’t know how many dozens of the articles I’ve read by just about everybody who writes here (and other places) and I’ve gleaned some real gems from a bunch of them including Chad and Christian who have involuntarily become the objects of most of the recent controversy.
I take what’s useful to me and shelf the rest. Far from being insulting I am very grateful for the buffet of philosophies and experiences that are sitting there for the taking, but just like every other area of life a lot of people are going to have their training transformed regularly or clamp onto one viewpoint. Again, nobody’s fault, but simply the way life is.
Having completed this exercise in snobbery I have to go see what my wife wants.
[quote]coffee wrote:
Wow. People here love their curls!
I rarely do curls and i feel i dont have a biceps problem. Maybe my arms could be stronger but i think the time could be spent doing something better.
I think if you just keep adding weight to your chins then your biceps get worked enough.[/quote]
This works for some, but we all have different responses to different exercises and some bodyparts are just naturally bigger. I don’t do heavy bench, I usually do high reps with about 165. My pecs are naturally big and grow easily in size compared to my arms. I intentionally undertrain my pecs. Since arms are my weak point, I incorporate direct bicep work (curls) in addition to pull-ups. I can’t think of a single bodybuilder who doesn’t do curls of some sort.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I could care less who you believe. My arms are probably bigger than yours and Chad’s so who you believe makes little to no difference to me. Chad is trying to sell a product…his own training philosophy. To do that, he has to stand out from everyone else. It is no different than any other product being sold on the market.
So ask yourself, should you ignore what millions of bodybuilders for decades have done for larger and stronger arms because you read one article claiming otherwise?
Those of you who begin following individual authors as if everything they preach is the gospel truth have lost your way. You have forgotten the most basic FACT that not one trainer would overlook if they have made any significant progress over the years…that no one person holds the one truth to the “best” results in bodybuilding, especially if they are trying to SELL SOMETHING. +
Also, that those who ignore the many who have come before them are just plain dumb as shit.
I’m not a newbie. I have already built big arms that are strong by listening to the very people many on this site seem to avoid listening to…the guys who actually got big. To say I disagree with Chad is an understatement. The real question is, why would anyone believe EVERYTHING Chad had to say as if he can’t be wrong or as if info from other sources doesn’t matter?[/quote]
dude, i hope your arms are bigger than mine. i’ve been lifting for 5 weeks. i came here and asked for help and everyone said to pick a program pick any program and just do it. don’t wait for the holy grail of programs don’t just sit around just pick a program and do it.
well i did and i picked Chad’s program and i’m doing it and so i just asked a question about who should i beleive about curls. i didn’t say you don’t know what youre talking about or that i was bigger than you or that you were a newbie. i am a newbie. i now that. i’ve heard it in every post i’ve made.
i’ve followed everyones advice and just want to know if the advice i got from an article here on T-Nation is the right advice. i knew i’d get flamed for asking a simple question.
[quote]TLock wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I could care less who you believe. My arms are probably bigger than yours and Chad’s so who you believe makes little to no difference to me. Chad is trying to sell a product…his own training philosophy. To do that, he has to stand out from everyone else. It is no different than any other product being sold on the market.
So ask yourself, should you ignore what millions of bodybuilders for decades have done for larger and stronger arms because you read one article claiming otherwise?
Those of you who begin following individual authors as if everything they preach is the gospel truth have lost your way. You have forgotten the most basic FACT that not one trainer would overlook if they have made any significant progress over the years…that no one person holds the one truth to the “best” results in bodybuilding, especially if they are trying to SELL SOMETHING. +
Also, that those who ignore the many who have come before them are just plain dumb as shit.
I’m not a newbie. I have already built big arms that are strong by listening to the very people many on this site seem to avoid listening to…the guys who actually got big. To say I disagree with Chad is an understatement. The real question is, why would anyone believe EVERYTHING Chad had to say as if he can’t be wrong or as if info from other sources doesn’t matter?
dude, i hope your arms are bigger than mine. i’ve been lifting for 5 weeks. i came here and asked for help and everyone said to pick a program pick any program and just do it. don’t wait for the holy grail of programs don’t just sit around just pick a program and do it.
well i did and i picked Chad’s program and i’m doing it and so i just asked a question about who should i beleive about curls. i didn’t say you don’t know what youre talking about or that i was bigger than you or that you were a newbie. i am a newbie. i now that. i’ve heard it in every post i’ve made.
i’ve followed everyones advice and just want to know if the advice i got from an article here on T-Nation is the right advice. i knew i’d get flamed for asking a simple question.[/quote]
Yes, you’re going to get flamed if you ask questions that people expect you to already know the answer to. Or if you ask questions that are opinion based questions with no real right answer, but 99% of people’s opinions lean a certain way. Or if you ask questions that don’t necessarily have obvious answers but everyone believes they do due to assumptions people make that they themselves are unaware of. Or if you comment on questions of any of the above kind. Or if your humor is somewhat unusual. In fact, to avoid being flamed it’s generally best to not speak at all.
[quote]TLock wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I could care less who you believe. My arms are probably bigger than yours and Chad’s so who you believe makes little to no difference to me. Chad is trying to sell a product…his own training philosophy. To do that, he has to stand out from everyone else. It is no different than any other product being sold on the market.
So ask yourself, should you ignore what millions of bodybuilders for decades have done for larger and stronger arms because you read one article claiming otherwise?
Those of you who begin following individual authors as if everything they preach is the gospel truth have lost your way. You have forgotten the most basic FACT that not one trainer would overlook if they have made any significant progress over the years…that no one person holds the one truth to the “best” results in bodybuilding, especially if they are trying to SELL SOMETHING. +
Also, that those who ignore the many who have come before them are just plain dumb as shit.
I’m not a newbie. I have already built big arms that are strong by listening to the very people many on this site seem to avoid listening to…the guys who actually got big. To say I disagree with Chad is an understatement. The real question is, why would anyone believe EVERYTHING Chad had to say as if he can’t be wrong or as if info from other sources doesn’t matter?
dude, i hope your arms are bigger than mine. i’ve been lifting for 5 weeks. i came here and asked for help and everyone said to pick a program pick any program and just do it. don’t wait for the holy grail of programs don’t just sit around just pick a program and do it.
well i did and i picked Chad’s program and i’m doing it and so i just asked a question about who should i beleive about curls. i didn’t say you don’t know what youre talking about or that i was bigger than you or that you were a newbie. i am a newbie. i now that. i’ve heard it in every post i’ve made.
i’ve followed everyones advice and just want to know if the advice i got from an article here on T-Nation is the right advice. i knew i’d get flamed for asking a simple question.[/quote]
Settle down. All is not lost. I know you’ve been lifting for 5 weeks now, but you probably still have a ways to go.
How is the program going? Are you seeing results? Chad’s program does allow for direct arm work if you choose to do it. If you want to do another program, go ahead. Don’t think for a second that everyone on this sight is going to agree, even the authors have very different approaches to things, but they also agree on a lot of things too.
If you aren’t happy with Chad’s program, pick another one and try that. You probably did yourself a favor by learning all the compound lifts and focusing on them. But if you want big arms, you are probably going to need to do direct arm work at some point. No time like the present.
Listen, if every author here agreed with each other, and every poster agreed with the author’s ideas, this would be a big fan club and not a think tank.
[quote]GhostNtheSystem wrote:
Or if you ask questions that are opinion based questions with no real right answer, but 99% of people’s opinions lean a certain way. [/quote]
If 99% of people’s opinions lean a certain way, perhaps there is a reason for that…
[quote]GhostNtheSystem wrote:
I want to quit curls. I’d like some suggested replacement exercises for the biceps.[/quote]
By rejecting the traditional simply as a reaction your create another cycle in which you’ll find yourself trapped.
[quote]Modi wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
when back exercises are done properly, they severely limit biceps activation by keeping the elbows in and minimizing biceps flexion… this reduces tension in the biceps and minimizes biceps hypertrophy.
How do you minimize elbow flexion during a back movement if you are doing full range of motion?
I agree that you can limit bicep activation by focusing on contracting the lats/rhomboids, but if you are doing a full pullup, pulldown, row, etc. you are not limiting elbow flexion.[/quote]
i really don’t have time right now to go into details, but with bent over barbell rows, with an overhand grip, for example, you limit bicep flexon by keeping your forearms perpendicular to the floor.
if you keep your torose relatively close to parallel with the ground when performing bent over ovrhand grip barbell rows, performing this exercise properly , while minimizing swing in order not to reduce the range of motion, this will keep th bar close to your body and the bar will end up touching your lower stomach. it’s as if your rowing the bar to your hips.
most guys i’ve seen in many gyms rows the bar straight up and end up touching the bar somewhere around their chests/upper abdominals. performing the exercise this way is incorrect and increases biceps flexion/involvement and takes away from lat work. does that make sense?
hope that helps.
also, regarding chins, the same rule applies. no swinging of the forearms in order to increase biceps flexion. lots of guys with weak backs, when trying to do chins, lean their forearms forward when pulling, increasing flexion of the forearms and therefore activation of the biceps. when performing chins that aren’t wide-grip, it is important to keep the forearms perpendicular to the ground.
there is a much greater range of motion given to flexion of the forearm through direct biceps curls than when compared to lat-dominant pulls performed properly. no question about it.
good luck.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
Modi wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
when back exercises are done properly, they severely limit biceps activation by keeping the elbows in and minimizing biceps flexion… this reduces tension in the biceps and minimizes biceps hypertrophy.
How do you minimize elbow flexion during a back movement if you are doing full range of motion?
I agree that you can limit bicep activation by focusing on contracting the lats/rhomboids, but if you are doing a full pullup, pulldown, row, etc. you are not limiting elbow flexion.
i really don’t have time right now to go into details, but with bent over barbell rows, with an overhand grip, for example, you limit bicep flexon by keeping your forearms perpendicular to the floor.
if you keep your torose relatively close to parallel with the ground when performing bent over ovrhand grip barbell rows, performing this exercise properly , while minimizing swing in order not to reduce the range of motion, this will keep th bar close to your body and the bar will end up touching your lower stomach. it’s as if your rowing the bar to your hips.
most guys i’ve seen in many gyms rows the bar straight up and end up touching the bar somewhere around their chests/upper abdominals. performing the exercise this way is incorrect and increases biceps flexion/involvement and takes away from lat work. does that make sense?
hope that helps.
also, regarding chins, the same rule applies. no swinging of the forearms in order to increase biceps flexion. lots of guys with weak backs, when trying to do chins, lean their forearms forward when pulling, increasing flexion of the forearms and therefore activation of the biceps. when performing chins that aren’t wide-grip, it is important to keep the forearms perpendicular to the ground.
there is a much greater range of motion given to flexion of the forearm through direct biceps curls than when compared to lat-dominant pulls performed properly. no question about it.
good luck.[/quote]
Huey, I think you misinterpreted my question. I was not asking how to perform an exercise or how to fully activate a muscle.
I was pointing out the fact that your terminology is wrong. You don’t limit “biceps flexion” by focusing on your lats. Biceps flexion is a measurement of how many degrees the forearm is bent towards the upper arm.
I appreciate the advice, but I am more concerned that you are giving out advice without having a full knowledge of anatomical terms.
[quote]Modi wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
Modi wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
when back exercises are done properly, they severely limit biceps activation by keeping the elbows in and minimizing biceps flexion… this reduces tension in the biceps and minimizes biceps hypertrophy.
How do you minimize elbow flexion during a back movement if you are doing full range of motion?
I agree that you can limit bicep activation by focusing on contracting the lats/rhomboids, but if you are doing a full pullup, pulldown, row, etc. you are not limiting elbow flexion.
i really don’t have time right now to go into details, but with bent over barbell rows, with an overhand grip, for example, you limit bicep flexon by keeping your forearms perpendicular to the floor.
if you keep your torose relatively close to parallel with the ground when performing bent over ovrhand grip barbell rows, performing this exercise properly , while minimizing swing in order not to reduce the range of motion, this will keep th bar close to your body and the bar will end up touching your lower stomach. it’s as if your rowing the bar to your hips.
most guys i’ve seen in many gyms rows the bar straight up and end up touching the bar somewhere around their chests/upper abdominals. performing the exercise this way is incorrect and increases biceps flexion/involvement and takes away from lat work. does that make sense?
hope that helps.
also, regarding chins, the same rule applies. no swinging of the forearms in order to increase biceps flexion. lots of guys with weak backs, when trying to do chins, lean their forearms forward when pulling, increasing flexion of the forearms and therefore activation of the biceps. when performing chins that aren’t wide-grip, it is important to keep the forearms perpendicular to the ground.
there is a much greater range of motion given to flexion of the forearm through direct biceps curls than when compared to lat-dominant pulls performed properly. no question about it.
good luck.
Huey, I think you misinterpreted my question. I was not asking how to perform an exercise or how to fully activate a muscle.
I was pointing out the fact that your terminology is wrong. You don’t limit “biceps flexion” by focusing on your lats. Biceps flexion is a measurement of how many degrees the forearm is bent towards the upper arm.
I appreciate the advice, but I am more concerned that you are giving out advice without having a full knowledge of anatomical terms. [/quote]
if you need me to clarify, all i’m trying to say is that you minimize/limit biceps flexion IN COMPARISON to the more commonly used incorrect methods of performing back exercises. my terminology is correct. biceps flexion is minimized when performing lat-dominant pulls PROPERLY as opposed to the more commonly seen IMPROPER techniques.
is the flexion of the elbow during a row or chin up? of course. is it ideal to reduce this flexion as much as possible to add the emphasis of the exercise to the lats? yes. that’s what i meant.
what i forgot to do was indicate a reference point to which i was making the comparison.
i should’ve said: ‘minimized elbow flexion when COMPARED to more commonly performed incorrect technique’.
Alright, I’ve decided not to quit curls. Even if I am at a plateau apparently there’s no better option. So worst case scenario I keep curling and never get any stronger, but at least I won’t get weaker.
[quote]GhostNtheSystem wrote:
Alright, I’ve decided not to quit curls. Even if I am at a plateau apparently there’s no better option. So worst case scenario I keep curling and never get any stronger, but at least I won’t get weaker.[/quote]
If you aren’t getting stronger, unless you are some decade long veteran at the peak of his potential, it is a much greater chance that you are either not eating enough, not allowing your body enough time to grow in between workouts, or you are completely clueless about how to train.
For most of these guys, I would bet food is the primary issue and why you are making no progress.
How much weight have you gained? how much have you increased in strength and size in your legs, chest, or back? You are just getting gigantic all over except for your biceps?
You weigh how much?
[quote]GhostNtheSystem wrote:
Alright, I’ve decided not to quit curls. Even if I am at a plateau apparently there’s no better option. So worst case scenario I keep curling and never get any stronger, but at least I won’t get weaker.[/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with taking a break from a movement for a while and coming back to it later. If you need a break, I don’t anyone would discourage you.
As far as strength gains, have you tried different forms of curling? Have you tried reverse curls? Hammer curls? Power curls? Curls with chains?
Do you change you rep/set scheme enough? Do you change it too soon? Are you using a heavy enough weight to induce strength gains?
There’s a lot of different factors to look at before you just say, “Fuck it, I’m at a plateau, I give up.”
whenever I read the word plateau, 98% of the time those people don’t eat enough food. The other 2% are the guys who overtrain so drastically they can’t possibly make gains. Curl an extra sandwich into your mouth every day and I guarantee you’ll see gains. You can taste the progress.
[quote]Hanley wrote:
By rejecting the traditional simply as a reaction your create another cycle in which you’ll find yourself trapped.[/quote]
Holy shit… that was profound!
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Hanley wrote:
By rejecting the traditional simply as a reaction your create another cycle in which you’ll find yourself trapped.
Holy shit… that was profound!
[/quote]
Haha some of the guys on here would have a hemorrhage if they knew who I was quoting on that one.
Just for the record… I barely ever curl. Basically because I don’t give a shit about having big arms. It’s just not high on my list of priorities. I mean it would be cool but when it comes down to it I’m not willing to put in the effort to obtain them.
In a situation liek mine should someone be ridiculed?? I don’t think so. But if I was complaining about my shitty arm size then I’m probably bitch slap myself for being an idiot.