hey I got a question regarding bb rows. When your going heavy from a 90 degree position is it alright to cheat by moving your body into almost a 45 degree position?? Reason I’m asking is, I’ve been stuck on 185 for a few weeks now on this 5x5 program, I’ve tried dropping the weight and stuff, but everytime I get to 185 I can’t lift it for more then 3 reps without bringing myself into the 45 degree position from 90.
One more thing, The bill starr program says to use a overhand grip and to do it from the 90 degree position, would it be ok to just do it using an underhand grip to lift more weight?? I feel I can do it with strict form when using underhand grip. Thanks!
It depends, do you want to build your back or do you want to see your numbers increase?
Don’t worry about the weight so much, think about the muscle you’re working on. You want to isolate it as much as possible. There are a lot more ways to progress than weight increase.
Underhand grip will bring in the biceps. This style of row is also known as the Yates row after the BB Dorian Yates. Apparently he tore his bicep while performing it with heavy weight.
Being stuck for a few weeks isn’t that bad. What other exercises are you using for back?
Post exactly what your workout entails. A list of what you did the last three would be nice (weights, reps, sets, rest times, exercises and their order), too.
Also, are you gaining weight from a high-protein diet? Are you doing any physically demanding workout outside of the gym?
It’s okay to cheat a little when you’re doing rows. As you get stronger, you’ll be able to do strict reps with the weights you used to cheat with. That said, if you can do 180 with strict form but you get sloppy on 185, you might want to think about buying some micro plates. Also, make sure you’re doing your warm-up sets as explosively as you can.
Guys, just a note—while a LITTLE body english may be fine for him, and while advanced guys can get by with more english, he’s talking about a major change in posture–hell, he’s halfway standing up with it then.
NO WAY.
Keep the same form. Underhand rows have their place, but it’s not often (precisely because of the biceps issue–the last thing you want is your biceps getting to a point where they take over a BACK excercise).
I suggest trying either A) a different set/rep scheme or B) a different movement–like dumbbell rows. Another option is dropping the weight just a little (10-15 lbs give or take a few depending on your body) and then trying to increase the amount of reps you can perform at that weight for a month or so–aim for getting 7-8. Then you go back and you should get 5 pretty easily
Keep the same form. This exercise is extremely, extremely difficult when done properly. You have to maintain an isometric romanian deadlift position while rowing a very heavy weight into your torso. The limiting factor is just as much the fatigue and demand placed on the posterior chain and the weakness of the rowing muscles. It is very very hard to increase your weight properly on this exercise. Because you have to focus on so many things at once.
There are the famous pictures of Arnold bent over rowing 225 with excellent form it seems. Where does your muscular development stack up to his? Even if you are doing 135 with good form that is nothing to sneeze at, well for 5 reps it is, but you get my drift. Here is an example of a ridiculously strong dickhead that could benefit much more from doing a correct row with 250-300. 300lb bent over row! That is exceptional! Instead he looks like this.
And remember the word is bent over, let me know if you see anything bent over in this video.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Keep the same form. This exercise is extremely, extremely difficult when done properly. You have to maintain an isometric romanian deadlift position while rowing a very heavy weight into your torso. The limiting factor is just as much the fatigue and demand placed on the posterior chain and the weakness of the rowing muscles. It is very very hard to increase your weight properly on this exercise. Because you have to focus on so many things at once.
There are the famous pictures of Arnold bent over rowing 225 with excellent form it seems. Where does your muscular development stack up to his? Even if you are doing 135 with good form that is nothing to sneeze at, well for 5 reps it is, but you get my drift. Here is an example of a ridiculously strong dickhead that could benefit much more from doing a correct row with 250-300. 300lb bent over row! That is exceptional! Instead he looks like this.
And remember the word is bent over, let me know if you see anything bent over in this video.[/quote]
you talking about the one where Arnold is doing T-Rows with 225? That’s the only pic I was able to find.
Form over numbers. Should we assume you’re not getting all the reps on each set with strict form? If so, deload or drop down in weight. Humbling yes, but its the right way to train. I know Starr requires no more than 5 reps for each set. What I would do is get 5 reps on four of the sets, then on the fifth see how many over 5 you can do. If you can do 6-10 reps, then it is time to increase the weight. Just my opinion.
I say results over form. If 30 degress help you reach your goal, by all means do it (it worked for Yates). If it doesn’t, DON’T DO IT. Change the angle. The right way to train is what gets you the desired results.
[quote] Matt wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
The right way to train is what gets you the desired results.
Exactly
[/quote]
While I completely agree, this is the beginner’s forum after all. Usually beginner’s need more black and white guidelines, so that’s what I’m sticking with here.
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
Keep the same form. This exercise is extremely, extremely difficult when done properly. You have to maintain an isometric romanian deadlift position while rowing a very heavy weight into your torso. The limiting factor is just as much the fatigue and demand placed on the posterior chain and the weakness of the rowing muscles. It is very very hard to increase your weight properly on this exercise. Because you have to focus on so many things at once.
There are the famous pictures of Arnold bent over rowing 225 with excellent form it seems. Where does your muscular development stack up to his? Even if you are doing 135 with good form that is nothing to sneeze at, well for 5 reps it is, but you get my drift. Here is an example of a ridiculously strong dickhead that could benefit much more from doing a correct row with 250-300. 300lb bent over row! That is exceptional! Instead he looks like this.
And remember the word is bent over, let me know if you see anything bent over in this video.[/quote]
Maybe not for him, but that’s not what a newbie should shoot for IMHO. He’s advanced enough to decide for himself what hit’s his back the best, but a beginner needs form first so they can start to feel the muscles. Advanced guys are usually pretty “body aware” and can feel each muscle working. For newbs, it’s like their muscles are anonymous–they can’t feel the difference in activation most of the time.
Anyway, I’m not a fan of those rows, just because I have nightmares about bicep tears. Yates would be proud though.
[quote]stuward wrote:
This is what the OP should be doing.
[/quote]
Why? How do you know? He said his goal is strength; maybe what he needs is to hit his back at a different angle for a while to get through this plateau.
Are you doing any physically demanding workout outside of the gym?