Heavy Barbell Rows

I have recently upped the ante for myself and begun doing sets of 225 barbell rows. I can only crank out 4-6 for a few sets but I really like the exercise, especially when the weight is piled on. Previously I would only do 135 for a few sets of 10…

But what I wonder is why does it seem like no one ever does heavy weight barbell rows? If anything I will see someone setting up a barbell/latpull-close-grip for a T-bar-imitation row with a lot of weight, or 100lb dumbell rows one arm at a time. Then of course people will always load up the weight on a latpull machine, but why does everyone who lifts heavy weight on lat exercises steer away from barbell rows??? I don’t get it…

for the same reason alot of people in most commercial gyms dont squat. its a hard exercise and its a muscle you dont see in the mirror, unlike chest and biceps.

[quote]Rusty Barbell wrote:
but why does everyone who lifts heavy weight on lat exercises steer away from barbell rows??? I don’t get it…[/quote]

Because they’re hard and people are lazy.

The same reason you don’t see that many people doing heavy barbell squats, or heavy deadlifts, or any type of front squat.

If you can’t lay down on a bench to do it, most people in the gym won’t…

For me, with two torn discs, being able to support myself when I do 125 lb dumbbell one-arm rows saves my back.

How far do you lean over? I like to do heavy rows at 45 degrees angle with two dumbells (haven?t seen anybody else do it ever, but i love it, especially supersetted with incline db benchpress). Any lower and I feel that my back is in danger and I would have to lower the weight…

Heavy dumbell and barbell rows are fun ! As long as your weight doesn’t compromise form, I say lift as heavy as you bloody want to and screw everyone else. 3-5 reps for 3-5 sets is an awesome method. You will see results as long as you eat and rest.

If I row twice a week, I tend to do one of each (DB and BB). I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone else do a bent-over barbell row…I see upright BB rows all the time though. Ouch.

Since when are the karma police coming after T-bar rows?

(I have done both recently.)

[quote]windmill85 wrote:
for the same reason alot of people in most commercial gyms dont squat. its a hard exercise and its a muscle you dont see in the mirror, unlike chest and biceps.[/quote]

Pssh… I can see my traps just fine in the mirror thank you very much :slight_smile:

The reason nobody does them is because they suck complete ass. Even Charles Poliquin recommends not doing them.

Here’s the reasoning. They are far too neurologically demanding because of the neutral spine positioning you somehow have to maintain while having a huge ass load out in front of you. The simply take too much out of your lowerback to allow you focus on your rowing muscles.

Chest supported rows, dumbell rows, cambered bar rows on the bench…these are way better.

What he^ said. I don’t think they suck though, but they are very demanding. I think most people go for easier exercises where their back is not in such a vulnerable position.

I love barbell rows. I do easy 102.5kg (230lb) but my grip makes it hard to go up weight. I do 5 reps. Always my first back exercise. However i can do 1 arm db bench rows with 60kg (135lb) each arm. So its debatable which is better for size and strength.

“too neurologicaly demanding”?

I have heard it all now.

Bent over rowing is an excellent movement for the upper body. Work this movement hard and don’t be surprised if you see increases in the squat, bench press and deadlift as well an increases in muscular development. One of the great aspects of the bent-over row is that there is a wide variety of techniques and variations to chose from which means that just about anyone can find a method of performing this movement regardless of their body structure. The important thing is to ensure that your technique is fairly consistent so that increased poundages are the result of strength gains, not in favorable advantages in the biomechanics of the lift.

The width of your hand spacing should be slightly wider than your shoulders, but this will vary with each individual. Your hand spacing and grip should put you into a position where you can strictly row with the greatest amount of weight. You can use either a pronated or supinated grip. The pronated or overhand grip tends to hit the upper back harder, while the supinated grip tends to work the lower lats a bit more. Experiment with both variations and see which one works best for you, or even use both grips in an alternating fashion.

I have found that the supinated grip works best when using an E-Z curl bar to take the strain off the wrists. Use plenty of chalk and or resin on your hands to ensure a firm grip. If you happen to train at a commercial gym that does not allow chalk (somebody should really invent flesh colored chalk) then purchase some resin bags and place them in a large colored sandwich zip-lock bag. You can dip your hands into the bag and get plenty of resin and there will be no waste at all.

Take a good solid stance, with the feet about shoulder width. Lean forward and bend the knees just slightly so that you nearly settle your abdomen onto your thighs with the hips being the center of gravity. If you have ever played football and had to get into the classic 3-point stance, as similar position will suffice for the barbell row-ie, you want to get into a stance where you can generate the most power.

The angle of your upper body can be anywhere from parallel to about 45 degrees though I believe that you should try and get as close to parallel as you can. People with a longer torso tend to do a bit better with a higher angle than an individual with a shorter torso. Make sure the back is flat and stable keeping a slight arch in the lumbar region before the weight is pulled off the floor. There are numerous opinions on the exact part of the torso that you try to pull the bar into. This will vary from individual, but somewhere in the upper abdominal region, just below the sternum is a good reference point. If you are using a supinated grip, you might get want to pull just a bit lower into the abdominal region.

Because you are pulling a barbell from a position in which you are bent at the hips, considerable stress is placed on the lower back muscles. You should not attempt to add momentum to the lift by yanking or jerking upward with the lower back muscles and extending the body. Lack of proper form means the targeted area does not receive maximum stimulation and can often lead to lower back injury. Heaving and cheating the weight up is very easy to do as the movement is not very natural to start with and the position makes it difficult to use a mirror to monitor and correct your form.

There are a couple of things that you can do to eliminate the heaving aspect of the row. First of all, many books and magazines advise that when the bar is lowered to get as much as stretch as possible-it sounds like good advice, but what happens is that once your arms are straightened, in an attempt to get even more of a stretch, you relax and begin dropping the upper body downwards which causes rounding of the back. This places the body into a weakened condition, so that when you attempt to pull the next repetition, you are forced into performing a body swing in order to compensate for the inadequate position.

Just lower the body to arms length and pull it back up. Another way to teach yourself to do the movement correctly is to have a training partner place their hands on your upper back along each side of the spine. Have them hold their hands steady and you will be able to gauge whether you are keeping your back stable or not.

I will throw another little tip in here that Marty Gallagher taught me, use straps, but DO NOT wrap your thumbs around the bar—the contraction in the back is incredible and it takes the arms/biceps out of the movement as much as possible. I do 1-2 sets without straps, and then 1-2 with the straps

Keith W.

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[quote]bulletproof_ wrote:
The reason nobody does them is because they suck complete ass. Even Charles Poliquin recommends not doing them.
[/quote]

In Poliquin Principles, Bent-Over Barbell Rows were one of the back exercises that Poliquin specifically recommended (along with a very wide variety of chins). When and where did he recommend against barbell rowing?

[quote]bulletproof_ wrote:
The reason nobody does them is because they suck complete ass.[/quote]
Man, I think a statement like this should get you voted off T-Man island.

Barbell rows, for some, can post a risk to the low back. I think that’s what scares a lot of people away. If you’re prone to lower bck problems, or have pre-existing back injuries, then of course, avoid the exercise. But if you’re an otherwise healthy guy, there’s zero reason to avoid rowing.

Right now, I’m focusing on bent 1-arm rows without a bench (2-point stance-ish). But in my next cycle, I’ll probably bring back a pendlay row/standing shoulder press superset that I figured out a few months ago. Seemed to work the upper back from delt to delt and everything in between.

Speaking of Pendlay rows…I think there was a thread around here a while ago. But does anyone use them much? A buddy of mine talked me into trying it, and I think I’ve decided that I like it. Basically a strict row, taking the bar to full extension (reaching the floor), with minimal upper body swing.

Some people prefer doing heavy cable rows instead because they find they can hit their back harder.

When you do heavy bent over rows you lose some of your focus and energy just trying to maintain the position that you’re in. On the other hand you use more muscles performing this exercise, they just arent all in you’re back.

I like the exercise, but it’s hell on my back. This does not let me load the bar the way it needs to be, so I prefer one arm rows to it, but I do them once in a while.

[quote]toddjacobs13 wrote:
bulletproof_ wrote:
The reason nobody does them is because they suck complete ass. Even Charles Poliquin recommends not doing them.

In Poliquin Principles, Bent-Over Barbell Rows were one of the back exercises that Poliquin specifically recommended (along with a very wide variety of chins). When and where did he recommend against barbell rowing?[/quote]

I believe the reason he doesn’t recommend them often is because of the poor form he sees most people use with them.

I love the BB rows, though I have been at a sticking point for some time. Just can’t seem to get past 195.

[quote]Keith Wassung wrote:
“too neurologicaly demanding”?

I have heard it all now.

I will throw another little tip in here that Marty Gallagher taught me, use straps, but DO NOT wrap your thumbs around the bar—the contraction in the back is incredible and it takes the arms/biceps out of the movement as much as possible.

Keith W.[/quote]

Hehe yea I’m not sure about the neurologically demanding part… but as for the not wrapping your thumbs part, I actually picked up on that a while ago and it’s a good tip for those who haven’t tried it. Although I couldn’t really pinpoint why it makes it a bit easier, it definitely does. I don’t use my thumbs a lot when I deadlift as well. They don’t seem to affect my ability to grip the bar at all.

[quote]God of Thunder wrote:
How far do you lean over?[/quote]

I would say no more than parallel with the floor, especially when I up the weight. When it gets hard I can’t lean over that far and just go for maybe a 60degree angle instead of 45. However I will start at a 45 angle and then as I pull the weight off the ground, move my torso angle up a bit to help me out- although I try to minimize that because then you’re starting to deadlift the weight instead of row it…

I’ve never tried a superset of incline DB with DB rows… sounds like a killer though… yesterday I tried the power snatch/OH squat combo for the first time, hehe, had to stop after I worked up to 135 lbs for a few short sets due to fear that I might make my spinal column collapse.