[quote]eremesu wrote:
i havent been keeping up with this thread, this one cunt that claims to be a doctor, is that an MD or a psychologist or what? i know this one guy that got a phd in psychology from a christian “college” and calls himself doctor. i just want to say that psychology isnt a science, it is another religion.
ps: what is the life expectancy for guys that suck dick once a while?[/quote]
cunt? wtf is your problem?
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
The entire implication that homosexual behavior is something that can be cured and should be cured is ridiculous and pretty out-dated at best.
[/quote]
I don’t know about “cured” so much as “prevented” in those `50% cases where sexual abuse was a causative factor. I tend to agree with the comments that homosexual orientation is a fair coping action for some really bad things. In such situation, the homosexual orientation is the “cure.”
I am a reconstructive surgeon that deals almost exclusively with the female reproductive system. Doesn’t come up much. 
I will say the studies on life-shortening effects of male-male sex tried to correct for those persons who engaged in “safe” sex and the life-shortening effects were still there.
– Mrs. Jewbacca
my problem is i dont read because i masturbate too much. wtf is your problem?
But if this is the case, what is your solution for preventing sexual abuse?
[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
As a doctor, however, I do like to know the cause of non-normative behavior. It was posited that this behavior. I noted that is possible. I also noted that many studies show it to be “nurture” based, in particular as a result of sexual abuse as a child.
[/quote]
being transsexual?[/quote]
Yes, transsexuals are traditionally grouped as a sub-type of homosexuals.
– Mrs. Jewbacca
[quote]debraD wrote:
But if this is the case, what is your solution for preventing sexual abuse?[/quote]
I really don’t know. “I’m a surgeon, not a pychiatrist, Debra.” (in my best Dr. Bones voice)
– Mrs. J
[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’m looking at one extremely radical, nearly irreversible option for treatment. With very little allowed by modern “progressive” society in the way of alternatives.
Or am I wrong to be skeptical or to wonder if perhaps something else isn’t actually going on here?
EDIT: by “allowed” I mean “allowed to be discussed”[/quote]
I guess I am being a bit overzealous, but the alternative to adapting the body to the brain (in VERY simplistic terms) is adapting the brain to the body which is a metric dickload riskier and harder (pun intended)[/quote]
Thats basically my take on it, to look in the mirror and to just know that what you see it just wrong, that cannot be good.
[quote]debraD wrote:
no kidding!
You don’t have to spend long in the Internet looking at what people are into to see that it is pretty unlikely we are hard wired to want to fuck a shoe, but clearly we are hard wired to want to fuck something :P[/quote]
Pretty much. I’d probably venture to say that I can attribute my vanilla heterosexuality to my upbringing even more than my genetics.
One of the most illustrative examples of environment as a major catalyst of sexual taste is the whole “Your Brain on Porn” movement. For those who aren’t aware of what this is, it is a response to the marked increase in ED seen in the (mostly) young{er) adult population who grew up in the age of Internet pornography.
This is seen to result from the relentlessly cyclical nature of the stimulation/desensitization process. Essentially, new types of porn create a dopamine surge which “rewards” the novelty of the new stimulus, while over time this surge diminishes to prompt the individual to seek out new, more “taboo” forms to recreate that high. In time, this cycle has been seen to result in an inability of the individual to achieve an erection during normal sexual interactions. The “cure” is considered to be complete abstinence from porn and masturbation to allow the brain to desensitize itself to the point where it can appreciate normal stimuli.
One unusual note to be considered here is the frequent element of homoeroticism reported by afflicted individuals (trap/tranny fetishism is more common than one would think). Bizarrely, people who have identified themselves as heterosexual their entire lives get to the point where chicks with dicks do it for them. Sans dick, nada.
Taking it up a notch: there are people out there who achieve sexual gratification from… popping balloons, trees (dendrophilia) or even being incorporated into furniture (a type of bondage known as forniphilia). I even saw a show once where people liked being in inflated latex suits (or something).
Shit, I didn’t even think too much of redheads until I dated an awesome one. Now, the hair color totally does it for me.
While I doubt many people actually discount the malleability of our brains to environmental stimuli across the board, it is interesting how awkwardly tense the discussion gets once sexual proclivity meets cerebral plasticity.
The uneasiness probably has something to do with the underlying notion that accepting this idea makes sexuality a “choice” and that the environment functioning as a causative factor suggests that the environment can also function as a reparative solution (pray the gay away or whatever). Personally, I think there is something to that idea, though the major issue with that is the constant battle one must endure with one of the strongest human instincts there is, which incidentally is strengthened by years and years of neurological solidification as “normal”.
Nature/nurture aside, it must be horrifyingly depressing to genuinely feel like you are living in a stranger’s body 24/7.
While heading straight for the scalpel is probably… inadvisable… I’m totally for someone doing whatever they feel they need to do to make that situation right.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
As a doctor, however, I do like to know the cause of non-normative behavior. It was posited that this behavior. I noted that is possible. I also noted that many studies show it to be “nurture” based, in particular as a result of sexual abuse as a child.
[/quote]
being transsexual?[/quote]
Yes, transsexuals are traditionally grouped as a sub-type of homosexuals.
– Mrs. Jewbacca[/quote]
I’m going to have to go ahead and say that those claims are false. It is a different condition all together and there is no data to back those claims up. There are very few (if any) that indicate it is a “nuture” induced state.
[quote]eremesu wrote:
i havent been keeping up with this thread, this one cunt that claims to be a doctor, is that an MD or a psychologist or what? i know this one guy that got a phd in psychology from a christian “college” and calls himself doctor. i just want to say that psychology isnt a science, it is another religion.
ps: what is the life expectancy for guys that suck dick once a while?[/quote]
How about you show some respect?
Do you have Tourette’s, or just an abnormally low IQ?
[quote]debraD wrote:
Im not convinced that one can be born in the wrong gender
[/quote]
I wouldn’t say yes for sure, but I would consider it (or aspects of it) a very real possibility. We like to think of sex as being a very clear cut thing, but the reality is that even small hormonal mis-timings, if they occur at the appropriate time in development, can have strong impacts on sexually dimorphic organs, which rely on the presence of the right hormones at the right times in order to properly differentiate. This can result in a different phenotypic sex or somewhere in between.
The brain is the largest sexually dimorphic organ in the body, so it’s probably not outside the realm of reason to entertain the possibility that hormonal issues may have some effect on the brain’s development. Whether that could and does result in gender identity disorder, though, I couldn’t tell you.
I think we should be more parsimonious in our approach to treatment, however. Unless we can conclusively link the condition to a direct physiological cause and show that gender reassignment surgery has superior outcomes to safer, less invasive potential forms of treatment (such as CBT), I wouldn’t consider this to be a preferred treatment. But, if that’s what you want, well hey, it’s your body, do what makes you happy. It’s not like we need more people breeding anyway lol.
[quote]anonym wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
no kidding!
You don’t have to spend long in the Internet looking at what people are into to see that it is pretty unlikely we are hard wired to want to fuck a shoe, but clearly we are hard wired to want to fuck something :P[/quote]
Pretty much. I’d probably venture to say that I can attribute my vanilla heterosexuality to my upbringing even more than my genetics.
One of the most illustrative examples of environment as a major catalyst of sexual taste is the whole “Your Brain on Porn” movement. For those who aren’t aware of what this is, it is a response to the marked increase in ED seen in the (mostly) young{er) adult population who grew up in the age of Internet pornography.
This is seen to result from the relentlessly cyclical nature of the stimulation/desensitization process. Essentially, new types of porn create a dopamine surge which “rewards” the novelty of the new stimulus, while over time this surge diminishes to prompt the individual to seek out new, more “taboo” forms to recreate that high. In time, this cycle has been seen to result in an inability of the individual to achieve an erection during normal sexual interactions. The “cure” is considered to be complete abstinence from porn and masturbation to allow the brain to desensitize itself to the point where it can appreciate normal stimuli.
One unusual note to be considered here is the frequent element of homoeroticism reported by afflicted individuals (trap/tranny fetishism is more common than one would think). Bizarrely, people who have identified themselves as heterosexual their entire lives get to the point where chicks with dicks do it for them. Sans dick, nada.
Taking it up a notch: there are people out there who achieve sexual gratification from… popping balloons, trees (dendrophilia) or even being incorporated into furniture (a type of bondage known as forniphilia). I even saw a show once where people liked being in inflated latex suits (or something).
Shit, I didn’t even think too much of redheads until I dated an awesome one. Now, the hair color totally does it for me.
While I doubt many people actually discount the malleability of our brains to environmental stimuli across the board, it is interesting how awkwardly tense the discussion gets once sexual proclivity meets cerebral plasticity.
The uneasiness probably has something to do with the underlying notion that accepting this idea makes sexuality a “choice” and that the environment functioning as a causative factor suggests that the environment can also function as a reparative solution (pray the gay away or whatever). Personally, I think there is something to that idea, though the major issue with that is the constant battle one must endure with one of the strongest human instincts there is, which incidentally is strengthened by years and years of neurological solidification as “normal”.[/quote]
I have only just scratched the surface of this, and most of my experience with it involves addiction, but the “major issue” you discuss, which has always been the major stumbling block of programs like AA and both the religious and secular conversion therapy programs, is actually an issue only to the approach, and not the patient. Example, at the blackest depths of my alcoholism, when I felt nothing but hatred for alcohol and for myself for my apparent inability to stop consuming it, I never went to a single AA meeting. NOT because I was avoiding a potential avenue to recovery, but because I was convinced that there HAD to be a better method than buying into and reinforcing the idea that you had an incurable disease; that you could never become “normal” like most of the rest of society.** The idea that I would be enslaved until the day I died by that monster inside of me telling me to drink, the utter helplessness of it all. That I would have to depend upon a meeting and not myself for strength.
Well, you know the story by now. And it was the same one for my 13 year, one pack+ a day addiction to cigarettes, and for my multi-year, daily habit of smoking (and more importantly, helplessly craving) marijuana. In all three cases, the actual CURE was instantaneous or damn near instantaneous (pot and cigarette cravings eliminated in an instant, drinking, overnight). The method for each of these was a little different, and the one for alcohol quite different and more complex than the other two, but the point I want to really press here is that I could never quit so long as I was focused on the monumental impossibility of changing a part of me over which I had no control.
In your excellent post above, Anonym, you suggest a possible link between addictive behavior and sexual behavior, namely and primarily dopamine. I enthusiastically agree. Of course I know it is a lot more complex than this. The method I used to cure myself of alcoholism employed exercise, supplementation, medication and hypnotism. Oh, and I never made the conscious decision that this would be my last drink, cigarette or joint. Ever.
So, I’ll sit here and beat the drum for what I have been this entire thread: I think we should stop allowing ourselves to believe that we’ve got all this human sexuality business figured out. To venture into the territory of pure speculation for a second, I’d bet all I have that a hundred years from now our clinical approach to treating sexual dysfunction will look as primitive as cupping and bloodletting do to us now. And I do NOT think the innovations will be driven by technology, but rather, a better understanding as to how all this stuff works. But THAT will take the willingness to remove the political blinkers and open up more doors to research into these problems than the single one we now herd everyone through that involves lopping off your body parts and life-long hormone therapy.
** I know there are many thousands of people whose lives were saved by AA. I have nothing negative to say about that program or the many wonderful people who work so hard to help people with addictions. Again, I just don’t like ideas getting bottlenecked as if something has already reached the pinnacle of its development and efficacy. I doubt anything man-made ever has or ever will.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
Im not convinced that one can be born in the wrong gender
[/quote]
I wouldn’t say yes for sure, but I would consider it (or aspects of it) a very real possibility. We like to think of sex as being a very clear cut thing, but the reality is that even small hormonal mis-timings, if they occur at the appropriate time in development, can have strong impacts on sexually dimorphic organs, which rely on the presence of the right hormones at the right times in order to properly differentiate. This can result in a different phenotypic sex or somewhere in between.
The brain is the largest sexually dimorphic organ in the body, so it’s probably not outside the realm of reason to entertain the possibility that hormonal issues may have some effect on the brain’s development. Whether that could and does result in gender identity disorder, though, I couldn’t tell you.
I think we should be more parsimonious in our approach to treatment, however. Unless we can conclusively link the condition to a direct physiological cause and show that gender reassignment surgery has superior outcomes to safer, less invasive potential forms of treatment (such as CBT), I wouldn’t consider this to be a preferred treatment. But, if that’s what you want, well hey, it’s your body, do what makes you happy. It’s not like we need more people breeding anyway lol.[/quote]
Good post.
Looks like a transgender to me, who briefly coped with her condition by trying to “fake it 'till she made it” through indulging in masculine pursuits. Seems she finally accepted her condition one day and went for the transition.
Reminds me of a co-worker who was beyond in-your-face “masculine” when I met him, going overboard with any stereotypical masculine behaviour (pointing out and cat-calling attractive women to an excessive degree, dropping misogynist words way too often to be funny anymore, exaggerated stories of his great weekend exploits with women) very obviously trying to prove to everyone in sight just how “masculine” he was. Yeah, six months later he came out as gay.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Well, you know the story by now. And it was the same one for my 13 year, one pack+ a day addiction to cigarettes, and for my multi-year, daily habit of smoking (and more importantly, helplessly craving) marijuana. In all three cases, the actual CURE was instantaneous or damn near instantaneous (pot and cigarette cravings eliminated in an instant, drinking, overnight). The method for each of these was a little different, and the one for alcohol quite different and more complex than the other two, but the point I want to really press here is that I could never quit so long as I was focused on the monumental impossibility of changing a part of me over which I had no control.
[/quote]
Sorry to derail, but I must say that’s quite impressive. I’ve only maintained a smoking habit for 4-5 years or so, getting up to about 15/day, but the cravings still get to me if I’m stressed and I still like to have a few cigs every week. Cravings for smokes are as bad as cocaine lol. How did you manage to stop the cravings?
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Well, you know the story by now. And it was the same one for my 13 year, one pack+ a day addiction to cigarettes, and for my multi-year, daily habit of smoking (and more importantly, helplessly craving) marijuana. In all three cases, the actual CURE was instantaneous or damn near instantaneous (pot and cigarette cravings eliminated in an instant, drinking, overnight). The method for each of these was a little different, and the one for alcohol quite different and more complex than the other two, but the point I want to really press here is that I could never quit so long as I was focused on the monumental impossibility of changing a part of me over which I had no control.
[/quote]
Sorry to derail, but I must say that’s quite impressive. I’ve only maintained a smoking habit for 4-5 years or so, getting up to about 15/day, but the cravings still get to me if I’m stressed and I still like to have a few cigs every week. Cravings for smokes are as bad as cocaine lol. How did you manage to stop the cravings?[/quote]
Cigarettes were impossible for me to quit voluntarily. Then, one day, I was running, pushing myself harder than usual, and all of a sudden I had to stop because I knew I was about to have a heart attack. I was just standing there, hands on my knees, drenched in sweat with my heart pounding out of my chest, waiting for it to come. And then it didn’t. I knew that there was no way I could continue smoking and continue exercising, so one would have to go. The next morning I woke up and just didn’t want them anymore. I flushed my remaining half-pack down the toilet and never looked back. No cravings. No irritation. No fat. In fact, I went from living for cigarettes to absolutely despising them, particularly the smell of smoke.
Now, for you, you don’t have to take such drastic near-death measures. I have your answer. Read this book:
Don’t worry if you aren’t “ready” to quit. The book actually encourages you to smoke as much as you want while reading it!
You can thank me later. This is a little taste of what I am talking about when I talk about radical psychological transformation. I read it after I had already quit, but I understood how the book worked perfectly and it is an absolutely fascinating read for a former smoker.
You have my respect for quitting Cortes! The worst thing I ever had to quit was Coca Cola, I drank 2 litres a day until 2007, haven’t touched it since.
[quote]Waittz wrote:
Serious question, I wonder how many dudes have slept with or at the least hooked up with a transgender or someone who was post op as like a random drunk hookup and still to this day have no idea it was a man.[/quote]
Always seek the silver lining… there is no hazard of children. All cats look gray in the dark.