Overtraining For Muay Thai?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
81

Mind-numbing? :s

My point is that I think people should take advice from people who have legitimate proven fighting accomplishments so they can be sure they know what they are talking about, that’s all. Before they take advice from people who simply make claims about having awesome power, it would make sense for them to take advice from people who they can see knocking legitimate fighters out, and the people who train those guys. Just my view, as I said everyone chooses who to listen to for themselves.

82

I also wouldn’t take advice from a fighter who claimed to throw around power-lifters in the clinch at 150pounds unless they were some kind of lumber-jack or professional strong-man. But that’s just me.

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[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I also wouldn’t take advice from a fighter who claimed to throw around power-lifters in the clinch at 150pounds unless they were some kind of lumber-jack or professional strong-man. But that’s just me.
[/quote]

Yea, well I would definitely take advice from a guy who’s been fighting in Thailand for at least as long as he’s been on this site, over some dude that comes on swearing he’s got a 400 lb. deadlift, a four minute mile, and mind-shattering power.

I do believe we are being trolled here.

84

I was really busy. Haven’t checked the site for a few days. And…

What

The

Fuck?

Couple things:

No one wrote being stronger isn’t a plus.

A bunch of people wrote statements to the effect that the work it takes to get stronger is often better put in elsewhere. Essentually, at some point the weight-room juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

Regards,

Robert A

85

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I also wouldn’t take advice from a fighter who claimed to throw around power-lifters in the clinch at 150pounds unless they were some kind of lumber-jack or professional strong-man. But that’s just me.
[/quote]

Then you have never had the awful experience of getting tooled on by a broken down old man who can just plain do the damn thing better than you. I envy you your confidence.

Because of that:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea, well I would definitely take advice from a guy who’s been fighting in Thailand for at least as long as he’s been on this site, over some dude that comes on swearing he’s got a 400 lb. deadlift, a four minute mile, and mind-shattering power.
[/quote]
I agree with this.

I am not sure. Could be a bit of a communication issue, though I admit Irish is usually the sharper and faster judge of these things.

Regards,

Robert A

86

My weight-training is near pathetic and you use that as an example that I must be lying about my accomplishments? The dead-lift is my absolute best lift due to a variety of factors like arm length and etc. a 400pound dead-lift isn’t that impressive and #3 I live on a sledge-hammer/maul and that helps with my deadlift. (grip strength). My squat/bench-press are fairly pathetic. I’ve almost been crushed under a 250pound bench-press so… no, I’m not lying about my lifts or abilities. The 4 minute mile is some-thing that took more hard-work than you could imagine, though.

anyway, I hesitate to post this because I realize how bad it is. This is me at the end of a heavy bag session a few months ago (before my heavy-bag got wrapped in duct tape) that lasted a little over an hour. Late at night right after 2hours on the sledge hammer. So I am exhausted beyond an ability to explain it in mere words. I know my form and technique have gone out the window, that I am losing a lot of kinetic energy by not maintaining the line of power, etc. never-the-less some of these would break bone or fracture ribs.(hah. esp a 150pound fighter. small fighters might be able to strike as hard as big ones, but they can’t soak it up the same.)

I’ll post a video of me working the heavy bag fresh, sometime:

(Oh, I was a little bit fat back then too) me at my absolute WORST. (I haven’t yet video-taped heavy-bag workouts until the end because I am more concerned with a good workout than proving to people i’m a powerful striker. but if it comes to someone calling me out, i’ll get one).

87

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
My weight-training is near pathetic and you use that as an example that I must be lying about my accomplishments? The dead-lift is my absolute best lift due to a variety of factors like arm length and etc. a 400pound dead-lift isn’t that impressive and #3 I live on a sledge-hammer/maul and that helps with my deadlift. (grip strength). My squat/bench-press are fairly pathetic. I’ve almost been crushed under a 250pound bench-press so… no, I’m not lying about my lifts or abilities. The 4 minute mile is some-thing that took more hard-work than you could imagine, though.

anyway, I hesitate to post this because I realize how bad it is. This is me at the end of a heavy bag session a few months ago (before my heavy-bag got wrapped in duct tape) that lasted a little over an hour. Late at night right after 2hours on the sledge hammer. So I am exhausted beyond an ability to explain it in mere words. I know my form and technique have gone out the window, that I am losing a lot of kinetic energy by not maintaining the line of power, etc. never-the-less some of these would break bone or fracture ribs.(hah. esp a 150pound fighter. small fighters might be able to strike as hard as big ones, but they can’t soak it up the same.)

I’ll post a video of me working the heavy bag fresh, sometime:

(Oh, I was a little bit fat back then too) me at my absolute WORST. (I haven’t yet video-taped heavy-bag workouts until the end because I am more concerned with a good workout than proving to people i’m a powerful striker. but if it comes to someone calling me out, i’ll get one).

[/quote]

Shit son. Get a boxing coach and learn the word “range.”

Also, lift that heavy bag up so you’re not punching the softest spot at the top, and then start raising your punches so you’re not punching dudes in the chest.

Your “body shots” would be ball shots on Gary Coleman.

Man…get a coach. Get a coach, get a coach, get a coach.

88

Man it was the middle of the night, an hour after I started the heavy-bag session, after working a sledge-hammer. I could barely lift my god-damn arms. I am well aware how sloppy it is. Theres no falling step, no line of power, I don’t get full extension, yeah it’s the worst form in the world. Which is what you see at the end of a heavy-bag session for almost anyone, let alone after that kind of workout on the sledge hammer. Save that kind of criticism for when I post a video of me boxing FRESH.

My only point posting this video was some of those would crack bones, esp of smaller humans. anyway. (I was also punching that low because the bag is the hardest there. like a rock)

but yeah, I mean, I won’t deny a coach would improve my fresh game. (this was also months ago.) I’ll post a fresh one some-time. (looking at the video that right hook is laughable though, aha)

89

If you ever want to fight, you need to get a coach. The only thing you’re doing right now is ingraining very bad habits in yourself that are going to be very hard to break.

On the plus side you look like you punch relatively straight and you try to turn your weight into your punches. But you’re making a shitload of beginner mistakes, not the least of which is not even attempting to keep your non-punching hand up, punching too low, leaning over too much, totally disregarding form, absolutely no movement, no head movement…

you know, you’re tired or whatever, I can dig it, but then don’t post that video, cause that’s all people have to look at, and from what I’m looking at you’re as green as the day is long.

Get a coach man.

90

I do not and I could use one but none the less that video is no representation of my skill. More a view that I can still probably crack bone like I claimed. (even when exhausted). I do have someone I train with that acts a surrogate coach to help me work mantis mitts, to bike while I attempt to keep up running, but not someone with a true knowledge of boxing. I need to learn that by watching fights, adjusting my technique. I’ve tried to stay true to a lot of the technique and style that Dempsey talks about in “Championship fighting” (again this video doesn’t much demonstrate that but I don’t prioritize video-taping my workouts either)

the question I replied to has vanished

though, by the way, thanks for advice about range and placement.

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[quote]IronClaws wrote:
I do not and I could use one but none the less that video is no representation of my skill. More a view that I can still probably crack bone like I claimed. (even when exhausted). I do have someone I train with that acts a surrogate coach to help me work mantis mitts, to bike while I attempt to keep up running, but not someone with a true knowledge of boxing. I need to learn that by watching fights, adjusting my technique. I’ve tried to stay true to a lot of the technique and style that Dempsey talks about in “Championship fighting” (again this video doesn’t much demonstrate that but I don’t prioritize video-taping my workouts either)

the question I replied to has vanished

though, by the way, thanks for advice about range and placement. [/quote]

You can’t learn it from books. You just can’t. Trust me, you can’t.

You are TIGHT AS FUCK when you’re hitting that bag, and you’re wasting so much energy that you’re not going to come close to understanding it until you get someone who actually SHOWS you what you’re doing wrong.

Do whatever you have to, but get your ass in a real boxing gym before you fuck yourself too much.

92

IronClaws,

I am going to work on the assumption you are posting in earnest, and not just to agitate.

I notice you are throwing around to technical language in some statements, while other terms in what appears to be a colloquial sense. It is making it a little hard to pin down EXACTLEY what it was you seem to be disagreeing with everyone about.

Do you mind summarizing?

Specific questions:

1.) When you use the term power are you describing hitting “hard”, hitting “effective”, the physics definition of “power”, or something else?

2.) When using the term strength training; are you referencing training with weights specifically or anything that builds some quality of strength? Part two of this is are we calling strength endurance strength work or conditioning work?

3.) Are you in disagreement with the idea that as a quality is improved through training that the rate of improvement drops off? Essentially the return on investment diminishes as the quality advances.

I am fine with either formal or informal terms, just kind of stick to one.

Regards,

Robert A

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on the bright side, your mile run is only 13 seconds off the world record, so maybe you should join the Canadian Olympic team and win a few medals as a runner?

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To fighting-Irish, a lot of your comments only apply if I am as clumsy fighting fresh as I am exhausted. When I watch professional boxers, even super skilled ones, they start throwing sloppy near the end of 12 rounds. Hell, some just look disgraceful. So, I hope you’ll give some honest feedback positive or negative when I do put up a video of me fighting fresh. (I wouldn’t be running 6 miles and sledge-hammering the day of a fight. Or doing high rep squats the day BEFORE.) So again, try and wait until I post some-thing fresh, maybe tomorrow before you judged too harshly there.

I’m sure that despite all the sad form and technique you would agree that if someone caught one of those faster jolts to the head, they’d be in trouble.

Robert A.

1#
When I am talking about power I am talking about the amount of concussive force you can generate with a movement. The amount of kinetic energy that one thing transfers into another. Like the ‘power’ I can generate with a sledge hammer swing is some combination of strength of the swing, weight of the object and speed that it’s traveling at. resulting in “power”

2#

By strength training I mean a wide variety of things but not necessarily traditional lifting. (though I don’t think it will always hurt) I do think squats have a good application to sports, mayabe even dead-lifts but I am particularly talking about training in a sports specific way:

Running with a weighted vest
shadow boxing with weight
working the heavy-bag with a weighted vest and gloves
explosive movements
sledge hammer/maul work
some kind posterior chain strength routine to help improve running speed/endurance.

Like for example in the video, I used a 12pound sledge hammer to pound away at hardwood for 2 hours(with a 20pound vest)then trained the heavy-bag for an hour, when I am swinging at the end of this video, yes it’s clumsy, yes it’s whatever. But I invite anyone on this website to have better form after a 2hour sledge hammer workout on top of a 1 hour heavy-bag session. Most of them wouldn’t lift their arms to do a heavy-bag session.

My point being that on days I don’t pre-exhaust myself on a sledge hammer I can punch for say, 12 rounds without my arms or shoulders getting tired. that’s valuable for a fighter.

edit
I actually do plan to hopefully one day compete in the olympics Zeno. I want some kind of gold medal in running or boxing. I have 7/7 days a week to train, why not?

95

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
To fighting-Irish, a lot of your comments only apply if I am as clumsy fighting fresh as I am exhausted. When I watch professional boxers, even super skilled ones, they start throwing sloppy near the end of 12 rounds. Hell, some just look disgraceful. So, I hope you’ll give some honest feedback positive or negative when I do put up a video of me fighting fresh. (I wouldn’t be running 6 miles and sledge-hammering the day of a fight. Or doing high rep squats the day BEFORE.) So again, try and wait until I post some-thing fresh, maybe tomorrow before you judged too harshly there.

I’m sure that despite all the sad form and technique you would agree that if someone caught one of those faster jolts to the head, they’d be in trouble.
[/quote]

From what I am looking at, I am not looking at a tired boxer. I am looking at a tired weightlifter throwing punches at a heavybag.

But hey, I’ll hold my tongue if you think you look better at a different time. Until then, though, what you posted is what I’m going off of.

96

lol, I spend all day doing boxing specific training and running, spend 3 hours a week lifting weights and that’s what I look like. Except I look nothing like anyone I know who lifts weights and a lot more like someone who runs and smashes stuff.

But sure, fine, you post a video of yourself working a heavy-bag, or anyone else. (I will post a fresh video some-time though) It’s easy to rip apart another’s technique without having to get laced with the punches yourself. but keep in mind I pointed out the flaws in my video before anyone else. Just wanted to display that I could probably crack bone with a punch. (and c’mon some of those would esp if you didn’t have a wall of muscle to protect).

your criticism is on the money, It was at the end of a HB session at the end of a long-day. any honest criticism is always welcome. I’ll try to keep it extra in mind need heavy-bag session. (even though I was exhausted at the time.)

97

[quote]IronClaws wrote:
lol, I spend all day doing boxing specific training and running, spend 3 hours a week lifting weights and that’s what I look like. Except I look nothing like anyone I know who lifts weights and a lot more like someone who runs and smashes stuff.[/quote]

Get a coach.

98

So you admit I have raw power? :slight_smile:

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[quote]IronClaws wrote:
lol, I spend all day doing boxing specific training and running, spend 3 hours a week lifting weights and that’s what I look like. Except I look nothing like anyone I know who lifts weights and a lot more like someone who runs and smashes stuff.

But sure, fine, you post a video of yourself working a heavy-bag, or anyone else. (I will post a fresh video some-time though) It’s easy to rip apart another’s technique without having to get laced with the punches yourself. but keep in mind I pointed out the flaws in my video before anyone else. Just wanted to display that I could probably crack bone with a punch. (and c’mon some of those would esp if you didn’t have a wall of muscle to protect).

your criticism is on the money, It was at the end of a HB session at the end of a long-day. any honest criticism is always welcome. I’ll try to keep it extra in mind need heavy-bag session. (even though I was exhausted at the time.) [/quote]

Probably every person on this board knows exactly what I’m about and what I’ve done. I have been laced with the punches myself plenty of times and I have a coach that tells me what my mistakes are - not people on the internet.

As I said, I highly advise you to do the same.

100

Thanks for the advice. Just keep in mind most people can’t use a sledge hammer for 2 hours with a 20pound vest (most boxers probably can’t) let alone work the heavy-bag for an hour after the fact. What you are criticizing are punches a lot harder than those you yourself could throw after being pre-exhausted on a sledge hammer for hours.

have you used a sledge hammer extensively with a weighted vest to call me wrong about that? Save your honest feed-back for a video where I can hold up my arms. I only put that video up because I was called a troll and I said before hand the conditions under which it was shot.

But still thanks for the advice. I just hope you will be honest when I put up a fresh video. (Or just honestly say you don’t believe me about the sledge hammer work or that it’s at the end of a heavy-bag session). Also, you will not become some big and clumsy monster, as it works the tendons and ligaments and only provides very lean and moderate hypertrophy.