Overtraining For Muay Thai?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

I am worried i am over training, i havn’t been getting great sleeps at night and when i get to Muey Thia class i am pretty tired. I was wondering if there is anything i could do to stop the over training, by nutrition, or workout placement.

My workout plan is 10:00 weight training, lifting, working two muscles every day… school … 5:30 Muey Thia, hitting pads for 1 hour, sparing for 1 hour… 7:00 ab workout, skipping, bag hitting… Sleep at 10:00… wake up at 8:00 for the next day. Then friday, saturday and sunday i take the day off.

2

What does your nutrition look like?

3

Ok, several questions that might help people give better advice. I know we have several experienced fighters and at least a couple experienced thai boxers here.

1.) What is your age?

2.) What is your training age? If possible how long have you a.)trained Muay Thai b.)lifted c.)followed your current regimen?

3.) What background, if any, do you have with athletics?

4.) How much do you weigh and are you gaining/losing? Has your weight changed recently?

5.) Sento asked it already, but nutrition/supps; What do you take?

6.) Any other relevant info, medical conditions, injuries, stress levels, etc.?

Regards,

Robert A

4

why are you splitting into to muscle groups every day for weight lifting. i cant comment on to much without seeing your split but off the bat il give some suggestions how to make this schedule more manageable

get off the body part split and switch to a maximal strength development program. your getting all the conditioning your going to need for fighting from fighting all damn day so get stronger in the weight room, if you want to get bigger than eat more and sleep more.

cut the ab workouts daily, again i cant really comment on because i dont know your schedule but if your doing one good hard ab workout per lifting day (ab rollouts, one armed farmers walks) you know intense heavy shit if you can do 100 of them stop doing them.

space out your program your making one marathon day thats killing you and taking 3 days a week off. so take that first day you described then use it for the pads and sparring. then over those next three days doyour bagwork and foot work drills including skipping (additional abs if you feel it necessary but with ll that punching and kicking they should be shot anyway) to work on what you learned that week and get it ingrained in memory, if you want a daya week off maybe make it sunday or friday depending how beat up you are after training either way you can still shadowbox on this day, Week free to include shadowboxing on anyday for that matter. i know it cause me to have epiphanies several times which dramatically changed my striking game

5

my age is 16

i have been training weights for about a year, i have been training muey thai for almost two years

i played hockey all my life

i way 155 pounds and i haven’t lost any weight except for fight weight cuts.

for nutrition i eat a egg and a piece of toast for breakfast or a bowl of vector serial, after weight training at 11:00 i drink a protein shake, at lunch i eat a 12 inch sandwich, before Muey Thai i eat a vega bar, after Muey Thai i eat meat, vegetables and a salad. After weight training i take glutamine and after Muey Thai i take glutamine.

6

[quote]jacksmithbrew wrote:
my age is 16

i have been training weights for about a year, i have been training muey thai for almost two years

i played hockey all my life

i way 155 pounds and i haven’t lost any weight except for fight weight cuts.

for nutrition i eat a egg and a piece of toast for breakfast or a bowl of vector serial, after weight training at 11:00 i drink a protein shake, at lunch i eat a 12 inch sandwich, before Muey Thai i eat a vega bar, after Muey Thai i eat meat, vegetables and a salad. After weight training i take glutamine and after Muey Thai i take glutamine.[/quote]

your gonna need to eat alot more, and alot more protein. one egg and a piece of toast isnt gonna cut it as a breakfast with weight training or combat sports let alone once you combine them.

at your age as well i dont really think its responsible of a coach to endorse cutting for fights

your young, you need to eat more, sleep more , not cut weight. from the looks of what you eat theres no way your not running a massive caloric deficit every day probably even before hitting the gym or the weights.

how tall are you

7

Stop weightlifting.

8

when i say weightlifting, i weight train all my muscle groups with a reasonable weight, im not going in the gym and killing myself everyday off huge weights.

i am 6 foot 2

9

If you plan to compete in Muay Thai, stop weightlifting.

That schedule is far too much for you.

Stop weightlifting.

10

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:

[quote]jacksmithbrew wrote:
my age is 16

i have been training weights for about a year, i have been training muey thai for almost two years

i played hockey all my life

i way 155 pounds and i haven’t lost any weight except for fight weight cuts.

for nutrition i eat a egg and a piece of toast for breakfast or a bowl of vector serial, after weight training at 11:00 i drink a protein shake, at lunch i eat a 12 inch sandwich, before Muey Thai i eat a vega bar, after Muey Thai i eat meat, vegetables and a salad. After weight training i take glutamine and after Muey Thai i take glutamine.[/quote]

your gonna need to eat alot more, and alot more protein. one egg and a piece of toast isnt gonna cut it as a breakfast with weight training or combat sports let alone once you combine them.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly, unless maybe you’re eating a brontosaurus egg for breakfast.

Your nutrition seems dismally insufficient for the amount of energy you’re likely expending, especially if you’re actually trying to get better at your skill and stronger in the weight room (which IMO, other than trying to put on weight, is the only reason you should be lifting weights in the first place).

And the fact that you said “I eat meat” for dinner, which pretty much means you have no idea how much you are eating, or the number of calories you’re consuming throughout your day means you need to put a little more time into your dietary habits, aka, time to get serious with the diet if you want to be serious with the performance.

Sounds to me like that’s the root of your problems right there.

11

irish i fully respect your knowledge and opinion but i must disagree

i dont think enough focus is being put on strength and power development in the early stages of the fight game

i really like this article by Chad Waterbury to help with my point of view

dave tate has also said that maximal strength training can help you with every aspect of fitness except maybe flexibility.

we have all surely felt at some time or another how large of a factor strength can be in a fight. im not saying ever prioritize it or let it hurt any aspects of combat training. but you can work it into your program intelligently to gain an edge. all things being equal (speed skill etc) the stronger fighter will win.

i know its not the most important part , i just cant understand for the life of me why people write off strength training entirely. i remember once you yourself posted a guide to street combat that endorsed as the two primary things to ready ones self for an altercation, boxing and weight lifting.

furthermore muscle on the frame can also serve as armor against some of those blows. and at 6’2" 155 (although the height post did come after your last post so i have a different perspective) i think he could stand to add a little meat on his bones and build a little power

12

thanks for the feedback

13

[quote]jacksmithbrew wrote:
when i say weightlifting, i weight train all my muscle groups with a reasonable weight, im not going in the gym and killing myself everyday off huge weights.

i am 6 foot 2[/quote]

The question is, why?

There is no way that you can bodybuild and train Muay Thai seriously at the same time (unless maybe you were an absolute freak of nature, in which case you probably wouldn’t have made this thread). Both of those endeavors require large amounts of calories and energy to participate in, and really don’t compliment each other very well.

If you are going to strength train, which I honestly think is a good idea for fighters to do, then you’ve got to strip things down to the bare minimum with your routine.

Your goal should be to build maximal strength (since practicing your sport should give you all of the conditioning you need) in the weight room, meaning low reps and fairly low sets/volume. You also should probably not be in the weight room more than 2-3 times a week (I’d start with 2 and see how you handle it, then move up to 3 if you feel you’ve got extra energy).

Stick to basic strength exercises (squats, bench, overhead press, chins/pull-ups, deadlift and maybe rows) as well. You need to conserve energy for your skill training, so stick with the most bang for your buck exercises. If after a couple months you feel like you can handle more, then maybe throw in some stuff for your arms, calves, grip, and neck.

14

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
irish i fully respect your knowledge and opinion but i must disagree

i dont think enough focus is being put on strength and power development in the early stages of the fight game

i really like this article by Chad Waterbury to help with my point of view

dave tate has also said that maximal strength training can help you with every aspect of fitness except maybe flexibility.

we have all surely felt at some time or another how large of a factor strength can be in a fight. im not saying ever prioritize it or let it hurt any aspects of combat training. but you can work it into your program intelligently to gain an edge. all things being equal (speed skill etc) the stronger fighter will win.

i know its not the most important part , i just cant understand for the life of me why people write off strength training entirely. i remember once you yourself posted a guide to street combat that endorsed as the two primary things to ready ones self for an altercation, boxing and weight lifting.

furthermore muscle on the frame can also serve as armor against some of those blows. and at 6’2" 155 (although the height post did come after your last post so i have a different perspective) i think he could stand to add a little meat on his bones and build a little power [/quote]

Bullshit. In MMA I can understand it because being physically stronger is a great asset in grappling.

When you’re in a striking art though, it’s totally, completely, and utterly useless.

And all respect to Dave Tate and Chad Waterbury, they’ve never seen the inside of a ring, so frankly I don’t give a shit what they say.

The early stages of a fighter’s career should be spent on nothing but technique, technique, technique.

There’s a lot I could go into about this, but I really don’t want to hijack this dude’s thread.

15

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
irish i fully respect your knowledge and opinion but i must disagree

i dont think enough focus is being put on strength and power development in the early stages of the fight game

i really like this article by Chad Waterbury to help with my point of view

dave tate has also said that maximal strength training can help you with every aspect of fitness except maybe flexibility.

we have all surely felt at some time or another how large of a factor strength can be in a fight. im not saying ever prioritize it or let it hurt any aspects of combat training. but you can work it into your program intelligently to gain an edge. all things being equal (speed skill etc) the stronger fighter will win.

i know its not the most important part , i just cant understand for the life of me why people write off strength training entirely. i remember once you yourself posted a guide to street combat that endorsed as the two primary things to ready ones self for an altercation, boxing and weight lifting.

furthermore muscle on the frame can also serve as armor against some of those blows. and at 6’2" 155 (although the height post did come after your last post so i have a different perspective) i think he could stand to add a little meat on his bones and build a little power [/quote]

Bullshit. In MMA I can understand it because being physically stronger is a great asset in grappling.

When you’re in a striking art though, it’s totally, completely, and utterly useless.

And all respect to Dave Tate and Chad Waterbury, they’ve never seen the inside of a ring, so frankly I don’t give a shit what they say.

The early stages of a fighter’s career should be spent on nothing but technique, technique, technique.

There’s a lot I could go into about this, but I really don’t want to hijack this dude’s thread.[/quote]

fair enough i would like to discuss the matter further and here your entire point of view at a more appropriate point in time. i still must respectfully disagree but you are older and have more experience

16

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
irish i fully respect your knowledge and opinion but i must disagree

i dont think enough focus is being put on strength and power development in the early stages of the fight game

i really like this article by Chad Waterbury to help with my point of view

dave tate has also said that maximal strength training can help you with every aspect of fitness except maybe flexibility.

we have all surely felt at some time or another how large of a factor strength can be in a fight. im not saying ever prioritize it or let it hurt any aspects of combat training. but you can work it into your program intelligently to gain an edge. all things being equal (speed skill etc) the stronger fighter will win.

i know its not the most important part , i just cant understand for the life of me why people write off strength training entirely. i remember once you yourself posted a guide to street combat that endorsed as the two primary things to ready ones self for an altercation, boxing and weight lifting.

furthermore muscle on the frame can also serve as armor against some of those blows. and at 6’2" 155 (although the height post did come after your last post so i have a different perspective) i think he could stand to add a little meat on his bones and build a little power [/quote]

Bullshit. In MMA I can understand it because being physically stronger is a great asset in grappling.

When you’re in a striking art though, it’s totally, completely, and utterly useless.

And all respect to Dave Tate and Chad Waterbury, they’ve never seen the inside of a ring, so frankly I don’t give a shit what they say.

The early stages of a fighter’s career should be spent on nothing but technique, technique, technique.

There’s a lot I could go into about this, but I really don’t want to hijack this dude’s thread.[/quote]

fair enough i would like to discuss the matter further and here your entire point of view at a more appropriate point in time. i still must respectfully disagree but you are older and have more experience [/quote]

Start another thread and put your points up on it. I’m more than willing to talk about it.

Civilly, even.

17

you are 16 the last thing you need right now is weight cutting to get in a weight class, get big, more technical and stronger you have time to grow and do both

Over-training is pretty much a myth unless you are an olympic athlete

You don’t want to end like Corey Hill weighing 155lbs at 6’2

18

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
irish i fully respect your knowledge and opinion but i must disagree

i dont think enough focus is being put on strength and power development in the early stages of the fight game

i really like this article by Chad Waterbury to help with my point of view

dave tate has also said that maximal strength training can help you with every aspect of fitness except maybe flexibility.

we have all surely felt at some time or another how large of a factor strength can be in a fight. im not saying ever prioritize it or let it hurt any aspects of combat training. but you can work it into your program intelligently to gain an edge. all things being equal (speed skill etc) the stronger fighter will win.

i know its not the most important part , i just cant understand for the life of me why people write off strength training entirely. i remember once you yourself posted a guide to street combat that endorsed as the two primary things to ready ones self for an altercation, boxing and weight lifting.

furthermore muscle on the frame can also serve as armor against some of those blows. and at 6’2" 155 (although the height post did come after your last post so i have a different perspective) i think he could stand to add a little meat on his bones and build a little power [/quote]

Here is the other thing, strength is many times a determining factor of things like speed, coordination, balance, endurance, and even flexibility.

Let’s say that I handed you a pen and asked you to write the alphabet with it, most likely you would be able to right? Writing is a very coordination dependent/fine motor skill activity. Now let’s say that I handed you an object that was the exact same dimensions as a pen, but weighed 100 lbs and asked you to write the alphabet with that; your penmanship/performance/coordination would likely be drastically reduced with this new heavier pen.

Did I somehow go into your nervous system and erase all of the practice/coordination that you had obtained? No. The difference was that one writing implement was very far from your strength potential and therefore you were able to very easily manipulate it while the other was much closer to your strength potential and you were therefore less able to manipulate it.

The same thing goes for speed. What can you throw further/faster, a baseball, or a baseball filled with osmium (the densest of all metals, about 3x heavier than steel) or lead (since that’s easier to imagine)? The regular baseball right? Why? Because again, it’s further from our strength potential.

Much the same is true for endurance, balance, and flexibility/mobility.

19

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
irish i fully respect your knowledge and opinion but i must disagree

i dont think enough focus is being put on strength and power development in the early stages of the fight game

i really like this article by Chad Waterbury to help with my point of view

dave tate has also said that maximal strength training can help you with every aspect of fitness except maybe flexibility.

we have all surely felt at some time or another how large of a factor strength can be in a fight. im not saying ever prioritize it or let it hurt any aspects of combat training. but you can work it into your program intelligently to gain an edge. all things being equal (speed skill etc) the stronger fighter will win.

i know its not the most important part , i just cant understand for the life of me why people write off strength training entirely. i remember once you yourself posted a guide to street combat that endorsed as the two primary things to ready ones self for an altercation, boxing and weight lifting.

furthermore muscle on the frame can also serve as armor against some of those blows. and at 6’2" 155 (although the height post did come after your last post so i have a different perspective) i think he could stand to add a little meat on his bones and build a little power [/quote]

Bullshit. In MMA I can understand it because being physically stronger is a great asset in grappling.

When you’re in a striking art though, it’s totally, completely, and utterly useless.

And all respect to Dave Tate and Chad Waterbury, they’ve never seen the inside of a ring, so frankly I don’t give a shit what they say.

The early stages of a fighter’s career should be spent on nothing but technique, technique, technique.

There’s a lot I could go into about this, but I really don’t want to hijack this dude’s thread.[/quote]

What about a striking art that allows clinching though (like Muay Thai)? In boxing sure, every time you get close/tangled up with your opponent and in a position where strength would be an advantage the ref breaks you up. But in Thai boxing (especially under rule sets that allow liberal use of clinching or even throws like San Shou) where you are allowed to clinch, strength can be a great asset.

20

You’re going to have to explain that some more Sento. I am not seeing the correlation, other than the fact that added weight does indeed make things harder to do.

Which would be fine if his MT gloves weighed 55 lbs…but they don’t, so who cares?