Opinions of Chad Waterbury Programs?

[quote]mr popular wrote:
That isn’t the point.

The point is, IF the guy is going to tell people how to look good, and how to succeed as a bodybuilder, he shouldn’t have glaringly obvious flaws in his physique.

No one has a problem with the performance/athletic aspect of his training philosophies. If some 6’3 guy had a goal of squatting 500lbs, nobody would question why he’s taking advice from Waterbury, because in that area he has merit.

The problem is that he is taking radical liberty in telling people how to shape their physique, and putting down so many others that do have merit in that arena.[/quote]
Bingo.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
JonBlood wrote:
I’m still looking for an isolation routine! Advice, anyone?

D1 Chest/Back/Lats

-Lever Pec Fly (underhand)
http://www.ukfitnesssupplies.co.uk/prodimg/LIFE-FSFLY_1_large.jpg
-Seated Row
-Cybex Lat Pulldown
http://www.flexfit24.com/Images/Cybex%20Lat%20Pulldown%204516.jpg

D2 Legs

-Lying Leg Press Sled
http://www.usedgymequipment.com/cybex/classic/legpressa.jpg
-Weighted Back Extension
http://cz.commercial.lifefitness.com/resources/category/1/2/0/9/images/thumb.HAMMERSTRENGTH-BackExtend1.jpg
-Leg Extension
-Leg Curl

D3 Arms

-Triceps Pressdown on Seated Dip Machine
http://www.usedgymequipment.com/lifefitness/pro/lfseatdiptripush.jpg

-Hammer Strg Arm Curl

D4 Delts & Traps

-Prone Incline Rear Delt Rows & Flyes
-Incline Front Delt Raises on Bench
-Machine Lateral Raises

  • 1 Arm Cable Shrugs

There you go. That’s my routine and it works phenomenally.

You do have to have access to the specific machines I linked in order to obtain the best results. I can vouch for the effectiveness of the routine but only if you use comparable equipment (“you are only as good as your equipment”).

If you want to make it a 3 day split, combine arms and shoulders into one day. If you want more lower body frequency, split up the leg day into Quad/Hamstring dominant and combine each of them with an upper body day.[/quote]

This looks… reasonable. I don’t get what is so bad about this. At all. Although I would probably do a smith bench or hammer bench press on chest day too, and machine hacks or smith squats instead of the leg press.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
That isn’t the point.

The point is, IF the guy is going to tell people how to look good, and how to succeed as a bodybuilder, he shouldn’t have glaringly obvious flaws in his physique.

No one has a problem with the performance/athletic aspect of his training philosophies. If some 6’3 guy had a goal of squatting 500lbs, nobody would question why he’s taking advice from Waterbury, because in that area he has merit.

The problem is that he is taking radical liberty in telling people how to shape their physique, and putting down so many others that do have merit in that arena.[/quote]

I actually agree with this, guess i worded my last post up there poorly.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
FattyFat wrote:

…-structuring your training around clusters (as opposed to a traditional rep’n set scheme) orientated by avoiding concentric muscle failure and rep speed decrease
-a high training frequency
-a low volume per session
-an exercise selection dictated by compound movements
-and frequent training load increases…

I’ve done this for years via TBT and upper/lower splits.

I eat a lot.

I have gained mass. Significant amounts.

[/quote]

BIIINGO!!!

When is this bullshit debate is going to end? I understand that some people here have some beef against some of the authors, and well, it is what it is, but we’ve got to get over this “my split is better than yours” drama!

I’m convinced that muscle growth is as “simple” as a combination of effort, intensity, CONSISTENCY, sound nutrition and rest. Now, what approach is more optimal, it depends on the goals and the time available to pursue those goals.

It’s silly for people to argue that traditional bodybuilding methods don’t work, I see dudes getting big all the time, but it’s just as silly and narrow minded not to accept that you can build muscle by utilizing TBT methods. If people haven’t figured it out by now, it’s more of a question of volume vs. frequency and once again, it comes down to what’s the most optimal approach for each individual goal.

In my case, I have found great success with a combination of TBT and Upper/Lower splits, but my goals are not only hypertrophy, but strength and power as well, so my training fits those goals, I also don’t have five days since I have a wife that is very active as well, a small son and I also play football recreationally.

Now based on the results that I’ve seen in myself should I say that training bodybuilding style sucks? No, I can’t if it’s fitting the goals of other people, who the hell am i to say otherwise?

If I had a couple more days to train, I would personally do more “strongman” trainning and who the hell would be able to say I wouldn’t build muscle that way granted I give my body enough fuel and recovery?? We can’t put ourselves inside the same box!

Overall, my respect goes for the people that is actually busting their asses at the gym and in the kitchen REGARDLESS of what kind of training philosophy they follow, and that’s how I’ve earned the respect of some big dudes as well. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of dudes in this website that talk big game based on what they see on professional bodybuilders as opposed as what kind of results they have achieved for themselves and trash anything else that they don’t understand and that have never tried.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
JonBlood wrote:
I’m still looking for an isolation routine! Advice, anyone?

D1 Chest/Back/Lats

-Lever Pec Fly (underhand)
http://www.ukfitnesssupplies.co.uk/prodimg/LIFE-FSFLY_1_large.jpg
-Seated Row
-Cybex Lat Pulldown
http://www.flexfit24.com/Images/Cybex%20Lat%20Pulldown%204516.jpg

D2 Legs

-Lying Leg Press Sled
http://www.usedgymequipment.com/cybex/classic/legpressa.jpg
-Weighted Back Extension
http://cz.commercial.lifefitness.com/resources/category/1/2/0/9/images/thumb.HAMMERSTRENGTH-BackExtend1.jpg
-Leg Extension
-Leg Curl

D3 Arms

-Triceps Pressdown on Seated Dip Machine
http://www.usedgymequipment.com/lifefitness/pro/lfseatdiptripush.jpg

-Hammer Strg Arm Curl

D4 Delts & Traps

-Prone Incline Rear Delt Rows & Flyes
-Incline Front Delt Raises on Bench
-Machine Lateral Raises

  • 1 Arm Cable Shrugs

There you go. That’s my routine and it works phenomenally.

You do have to have access to the specific machines I linked in order to obtain the best results. I can vouch for the effectiveness of the routine but only if you use comparable equipment (“you are only as good as your equipment”).

If you want to make it a 3 day split, combine arms and shoulders into one day. If you want more lower body frequency, split up the leg day into Quad/Hamstring dominant and combine each of them with an upper body day.[/quote]

Only three workouts total for chest and back? How many sets of each movement do you do?

[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
pushharder wrote:
FattyFat wrote:

…-structuring your training around clusters (as opposed to a traditional rep’n set scheme) orientated by avoiding concentric muscle failure and rep speed decrease
-a high training frequency
-a low volume per session
-an exercise selection dictated by compound movements
-and frequent training load increases…

I’ve done this for years via TBT and upper/lower splits.

I eat a lot.

I have gained mass. Significant amounts.

BIIINGO!!!

When is this bullshit debate is going to end? I understand that some people here have some beef against some of the authors, and well, it is what it is, but we’ve got to get over this “my split is better than yours” drama!

I’m convinced that muscle growth is as “simple” as a combination of effort, intensity, CONSISTENCY, sound nutrition and rest. Now, what approach is more optimal, it depends on the goals and the time available to pursue those goals.

It’s silly for people to argue that traditional bodybuilding methods don’t work, I see dudes getting big all the time, but it’s just as silly and narrow minded not to accept that you can build muscle by utilizing TBT methods.

If people haven’t figured it out by now, it’s more of a question of volume vs. frequency and once again, it comes down to what’s the most optimal approach for each individual goal.

In my case, I have found great success with a combination of TBT and Upper/Lower splits, but my goals are not only hypertrophy, but strength and power as well, so my training fits those goals, I also don’t have five days since I have a wife that is very active as well, a small son and I also play football recreationally.

Now based on the results that I’ve seen in myself should I say that training bodybuilding style sucks? No, I can’t if it’s fitting the goals of other people, who the hell am i to say otherwise? If I had a couple more days to train, I would personally do more “strongman” trainning and who the hell would be able to say I wouldn’t build muscle that way granted I give my body enough fuel and recovery?? We can’t put ourselves inside the same box!

Overall, my respect goes for the people that is actually busting their asses at the gym and in the kitchen REGARDLESS of what kind of training philosophy they follow, and that’s how I’ve earned the respect of some big dudes as well.

Unfortunately, there’s a lot of dudes in this website that talk big game based on what they see on professional bodybuilders as opposed as what kind of results they have achieved for themselves and trash anything else that they don’t understand and that have never tried.

[/quote]

You know, why don’t we all just join forces to convince the op to stop listening to Nominal Prospect?

If we don’t fight as one, then his logical arguments will destroy us in isolation. Or something like that.

(no offense NP, T-Nation would be terribly boring without your efforts)

This thread was started three days ago in hopes that I would have a new program to jump into tomorrow. Time is running out!
Does anyone have any suggestions on the HSS-100 program besides Goodfellow’s very helpful advice of, “Youre a dick”?

Nominal Prospect no good? He is so convincing…He must have been the captain of the debate team in school.

[quote]JonBlood wrote:
This thread was started three days ago in hopes that I would have a new program to jump into tomorrow. Time is running out!
Does anyone have any suggestions on the HSS-100 program besides Goodfellow’s very helpful advice of, “Youre a dick”?

Nominal Prospect no good? He is so convincing…He must have been the captain of the debate team in school.[/quote]

Since Aragorn suggested HSS-100, maybe a polite PM could coax him into giving you some more advice?
If not, try sending pictures of cute looking naked girls along with your pm, that should do the trick.

Seriously though, you need to get the basics of programming and diet down… Search function → “professor x: a request” and read through that thread for info on standard BB training.

Or try ironaddicts.com or whatever.

Edit: I just wanted to make sure you’re getting this: No matter what routine you do, you gotta get significantly stronger on key movements for every major muscle-group.
In order to be able to do that, you will have to eat a lot, and get in adequate amounts of protein.

Now go eat a steak and then read through that thread.

Ah the beauty of Ironaddicts.com, where you have to have proof of success before being able to give advice.

[quote]Dedicatedone wrote:
Ah the beauty of Ironaddicts.com, where you have to have proof of success before being able to give advice.[/quote]

Indeed… IA.com and intensemuscle are nice in that way…

I guess we can’t do that here, that’d not be “open to everything” enough?
Gotta provide a place for guys like NP and certain authors to post their great (training)philosophies, after all.

#edited

I actually come here for entertainment and go to IA.com more for training, there is just so much misinformation all over the web that it’s annoying having to filter it out.

Okay. So, I referred to Professor X: A request thread and I put together this program for myself. What do you guys think?
Monday
Chest/abs

Flat BB Bench 4x8
Incline BB Bench 4x8
Cable Fly?s 4x8
Shit-load of pushups
Ab-wheel
15 mins incline walking

Tuesday
Back
Weighted Pull-ups 4x8
Cable rows 4x8
Lat Pull-downs 4x8
Straight arm pushdowns 3x15
15 mins incline walking

Wednesday
Legs/abs
Front squat 4x8
Romanian Deadlift 4x8
Lunges 4x8
Calf raises 4x8
Leg lifts 3x15
15 mins incline walking

Thursday
Shoulders
BB standing shoulder press 4x8
Cable upright rows 4x8
Lateral raises 4x8
Rear delt row machine 4x8
15 mins incline walking

Friday
Arms/abs
Weighted dips 4x8
Standing barbell curls 4x8
Close-grip bench 4x8
Preacher curls 4x8
Tricep pushdown 3x15
HS Curl machine 3x15
Ab-wheel
15 mins incline walking

[quote]Clown Face wrote:
Big Macs x 4 (my record)

Pancakes with loads of syrup and lemon juice mmmmmmmm

Cans of Tuna with Mayo (full fat)

Protein SHakes

chicken…with Bumboo sauce on it…extra crispy sking

PIZZA!!!

Ice cream

Oatmeal

STEAK! with BBQ sauce

Ah man…i’m getting hungry

BTW…don’t go by bodyfat…its differes so much in different people…just go by look.[/quote]

youre an idiot.

Listen Jon. Keep eating clean, bump up your cals.

and your program looks pretty solid to me.

but what do i know im only 6’5 and 220 lbs of muscle. but my post count is low so therefore i dont know shit.

Yeah you’re right…only 40 posts? Who is this guy anyway?! I’m only kidding, thank you for the input

[quote]JonBlood wrote:
Okay. So, I referred to Professor X: A request thread and I put together this program for myself. What do you guys think?
Monday
Chest/abs

Flat BB Bench 4x8
Incline BB Bench 4x8
Cable Fly?s 4x8
Shit-load of pushups
Ab-wheel
15 mins incline walking

Tuesday
Back
Weighted Pull-ups 4x8
Cable rows 4x8
Lat Pull-downs 4x8
Straight arm pushdowns 3x15
15 mins incline walking

Wednesday
Legs/abs
Front squat 4x8
Romanian Deadlift 4x8
Lunges 4x8
Calf raises 4x8
Leg lifts 3x15
15 mins incline walking

Thursday
Shoulders
BB standing shoulder press 4x8
Cable upright rows 4x8
Lateral raises 4x8
Rear delt row machine 4x8
15 mins incline walking

Friday
Arms/abs
Weighted dips 4x8
Standing barbell curls 4x8
Close-grip bench 4x8
Preacher curls 4x8
Tricep pushdown 3x15
HS Curl machine 3x15
Ab-wheel
15 mins incline walking

[/quote]

Did you get the “ramping” part as well? I hope so :slight_smile:

Go ask pX in that thread, he’s the expert on his own training after all… I won’t comment any further now that you have some points of reference.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

Did you get the “ramping” part as well? I hope so :slight_smile:

Go ask pX in that thread, he’s the expert on his own training after all… I won’t comment any further now that you have some points of reference.

[/quote]

Sorry, what are you referring to when you say “ramping”?

[quote]hardcoreraymond wrote:

but what do i know im only 6’5 and 220 lbs of muscle. but my post count is low so therefore i dont know shit.
[/quote]

You are 6’5". 220lbs at that height isn’t that big. That would be relative to someone at 6 feet weighing about 180-185lbs.

How many sets/reps would be best for my goal of hypertrophy or is it something that I would have to discover on my own through trial and error? In the workout I posted about I did 4x8 in just about everything except for a few