Opinions of Chad Waterbury Programs?

Training Bodybuilding
141

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Clifford wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Clifford wrote:
a PX vs Waterbury debate article about split training vs total body training for hypertrophy would no doubt be one of the most controversial “in your face” articles ever. and probably get more discussion then any article i have ever read.

heres the article…

PX: eat food, use a split, stop being a pussy, if you get too fat add cardio or drop some cals

CW: lots of scientific words, studies, Biotest plug, hopscotch with a weighted vest

so your saying you wouldn’t read the article? i find that a little hard to believe. i guarantee neither of them will convince the other their wrong but people would read it just to watch them bash each other.i get the hunch from reading some of their past posts this wouldn’t be your friendly neighborhood debate. humans love drama and that’s why i think it would be a fun article to read. do you disagree?

LOL. The last time we had a “debate” or argument (about 3 years ago), CW had the entire thread deleted and removed. I seriously doubt, given that response, that he wants to go down that route again.[/quote]

That’s why I can’t find it…

142

[quote]FutureGL wrote:

That’s why I can’t find it…
[/quote]

All you’ll find now are the threads that led to it. They even had most of my responses erased from the article discussion thread that led to that “debate” (That Critic article he put out once). If you go back to read that discussion now, it looks like I never wrote anything contradicting what he wrote. All you’ll see are the praise posts.

143

OP, lets look at one thing: Every single person that has got a decent amount of muscle size.

Now lets look at another thing: How do they train?.

[u]SPLIT ROUTINES.[/u]

Here is three program’s you could follow:

3-day split (chest/biceps - legs/shoulders - back/triceps)

4-day split (chest/tri’s - back/bi’s - legs - shoulders)

5-day split (legs - chest - back - shoulders - arms)

Chest exercises:
flat bench variations (barbell, dumbbells)
incline bench variations (barbell, dumbbells)
Dips or decline bench variations or machine pressing.
Fly variations (pec deck, dumbbell flyes, cable crossover)

Back exercises:
Pull up/chin up variations
Lat pulldown variations
Barbell, dumbbell or T-bar rows.
Seated cable rows.

Leg exercises:
Squat variations (barbell, front squat, hack squat)
Deadlift variations (romanian, regular, sumo)
Leg press
Leg curls
Leg extensions

Shoulder exercises:
Military pressing
Seated pressing (barbell or dumbbells)
lateral raises (cables, dumbbells or machine)
rear delts (machines, bent over raises, bent over cable raises)
Traps (shrugs, shrugs, shrugs)

Arm exercises:
Barbell curls
close grip bench pressing
preacher bench (all variations)
tricep pushdowns

Sets/Reps? Pyramid up in weight to a top 1 or 2 sets. You can use up to 3 sets for lighter exercises (lateral raises etc.)

Example of what you could do for most exercises:
12-15 reps (easy)
10-12 reps (moderate)
8-10 reps (difficult)
6-8 reps (hard)
6-8 reps (harder)
4-6 reps (Fuck!)

On back/leg exercises it would be a good idea to stick to the higher rep ranges of the above. EXCEPT for deadlifts.

144

Has anyone tried HSS-100?

145

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
OP, lets look at one thing: Every single person that has got a decent amount of muscle size.

Now lets look at another thing: How do they train?.

[u]SPLIT ROUTINES.[/u]

Here is three program’s you could follow:

3-day split (chest/biceps - legs/shoulders - back/triceps)

4-day split (chest/tri’s - back/bi’s - legs - shoulders)

5-day split (legs - chest - back - shoulders - arms)

Chest exercises:
flat bench variations (barbell, dumbbells)
incline bench variations (barbell, dumbbells)
Dips or decline bench variations or machine pressing.
Fly variations (pec deck, dumbbell flyes, cable crossover)

Back exercises:
Pull up/chin up variations
Lat pulldown variations
Barbell, dumbbell or T-bar rows.
Seated cable rows.

Leg exercises:
Squat variations (barbell, front squat, hack squat)
Deadlift variations (romanian, regular, sumo)
Leg press
Leg curls
Leg extensions

Shoulder exercises:
Military pressing
Seated pressing (barbell or dumbbells)
lateral raises (cables, dumbbells or machine)
rear delts (machines, bent over raises, bent over cable raises)
Traps (shrugs, shrugs, shrugs)

Arm exercises:
Barbell curls
close grip bench pressing
preacher bench (all variations)
tricep pushdowns

Sets/Reps? Pyramid up in weight to a top 1 or 2 sets. You can use up to 3 sets for lighter exercises (lateral raises etc.)

Example of what you could do for most exercises:
12-15 reps (easy)
10-12 reps (moderate)
8-10 reps (difficult)
6-8 reps (hard)
6-8 reps (harder)
4-6 reps (Fuck!)

On back/leg exercises it would be a good idea to stick to the higher rep ranges of the above. EXCEPT for deadlifts.
[/quote]

Is there a benefit of doing a 3 day split versus a 4 or 5 day split besides the fact that I would have more energy to train the second half of my workout?

146

Actually no, in my opinion a 3-day split has no real benefits over a 4 or 5 day split, it’s just a personal preference thing.

Not unless you have a job/sport so stressful and demanding of your time that you can only be in the gym 3 days a week.

147

[quote]JonBlood wrote:
Im not that much of a newbie I’ve been training for over three years and Ive tried a number of different programs. I do have a muscular physique but I’m trying to get to the next level.[/quote]

You are a newbie. Three years is nothing. Sorry to break it down for you like that. You might only claim three years of lifting experience if in those three years you have been successfully using a very well planned training program… or something like that.

X number of years going to the gym =/= X number of training experience.

148

[quote]elnyka wrote:
JonBlood wrote:
Im not that much of a newbie I’ve been training for over three years and Ive tried a number of different programs. I do have a muscular physique but I’m trying to get to the next level.

You are a newbie. Three years is nothing. Sorry to break it down for you like that. You might only claim three years of lifting experience if in those three years you have been successfully using a very well planned training program… or something like that.

X number of years going to the gym =/= X number of training experience.[/quote]

There are people on this forum claiming 12 years of lifting experience but they still have 15" arms and can’t figure out how to gain weight.

I personally call someone like that a failure…but I guess “newbie” works also.

149

[quote]mr popular wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
You know, I’d sure like to see a pic of Waterbury’s physique. All the pictures I know of are pretty unrevealing.

heres an article with quite a few pics of Chad, and here is a pic from his website.

BEHOLD! THE MAN WITH NO DELTOIDS!

Ironically, it looks like Chad Waterbury needs some lateral raises in his life.

I can’t imagine what other lagging bodyparts he might have following his own training philosophy.[/quote]

CW is a tall and fairly powerful, athletic looking individual. I posted this before but it didn’t show up for some reason. I would not criticize the man’s physique, only his training methodology.

If he had been born with a worse physique he might actually have been compelled to seek out an effective hypertrophy routine. Not the way it turned out, though.

150

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
OP, lets look at one thing: Every single person that has got a decent amount of muscle size.

Now lets look at another thing: How do they train?.

[u]SPLIT ROUTINES.[/u]

Here is three program’s you could follow:

3-day split (chest/biceps - legs/shoulders - back/triceps)

4-day split (chest/tri’s - back/bi’s - legs - shoulders)

5-day split (legs - chest - back - shoulders - arms)

[/quote]

I don’t know about you, but I found that working a muscle group (primarily) once per week didn’t do all that much for me. Does anyone on this site hit each body part twice per week, lifting six days a week, essentially doing the three day split on Sun,Mon,Tues, taking Wed off, then doing it again on Thu,Fri,Sat? I work out pretty hard but didn’t get great results doing each BP just once per week.

151

This is an HSS-100 Program I changed up a bit and am going to start on Monday. The example that I saw had only Rear Delt flys on the shoulder day and that’s it for shoulders. Do you think that my Chest/shoulder day is too much?

Monday - Quads
A Front Squats 5 x 4-6
B1 Leg Press 1 x 6-8
B2 DB Lunges 1 x 6-8
C Single Leg Squat 4 x 6-8
D Leg Extensions 1 x 100

Tuesday Back / Traps
A Bent over Barbell Row 5 x 4-6
B1 Pull Overs 3 x 8-10
B2 Pull-up 3 x 8-10
C Seated Cable Rowing 3 x 8-10
D Straight arm pulldown 1 x 100

A Power Shrugs 3 x 8-12

Wednesday - Off

Thursday - Hams / Calves
A Romanian Deadlift 4 x 6-8
B1 Lying Leg Curl 3 x 8-10
B2 Stiff Leg Deadlift 3 x 8-10
C Pull-Through 3 x 8-10
D Seated Leg Curls 1 x 100

A Seated Calve Raise 3 x 8-12

Friday Chest / Shoulders
A Flat Barbell Press 4 x 6-8
B1 Standing Cable Bench 3 x 8-10
B2 Pec Deck 3 x 8-10
C Close-to-Wide Dumbbell Press 3 x 8-10
D Cable Cross over 1 x 100

A Standing DB Shoulder Press
B1 Lateral raise 4 x 6-8
B2 Front Raise 4 x 6-8
C Face Pulls 3 x 8-10
D. Cable Military Press 1 x 100

Saturday - Off

Sunday Triceps / Biceps )
A Close Grip Bench Press 3 x 8-10
B1 Overhead Extension (cable/DB) 4 x 6-8
B2 Dips 4 x 6-8
C Decline Dumbbell Triceps Extension 3 x 8-10
D Cable Pulldowns 1 x 100

A Standing Barbell Curl 3 x 8-10
B1 Preacher Curls 3 x 8-10
B2 Elbows-Out, Close-Grip Barbell Curl 3 x 8-10
C Drag Curls 3 x 8-10
D Cable Curls 1 x 100

152

[quote]JonBlood wrote:
This is an HSS-100 Program I changed up a bit and am going to start on Monday. The example that I saw had only Rear Delt flys on the shoulder day and that’s it for shoulders. Do you think that my Chest/shoulder day is too much?

Monday - Quads
A Front Squats 5 x 4-6
B1 Leg Press 1 x 6-8
B2 DB Lunges 1 x 6-8
C Single Leg Squat 4 x 6-8
D Leg Extensions 1 x 100

Tuesday Back / Traps
A Bent over Barbell Row 5 x 4-6
B1 Pull Overs 3 x 8-10
B2 Pull-up 3 x 8-10
C Seated Cable Rowing 3 x 8-10
D Straight arm pulldown 1 x 100

A Power Shrugs 3 x 8-12

Wednesday - Off

Thursday - Hams / Calves
A Romanian Deadlift 4 x 6-8
B1 Lying Leg Curl 3 x 8-10
B2 Stiff Leg Deadlift 3 x 8-10
C Pull-Through 3 x 8-10
D Seated Leg Curls 1 x 100

A Seated Calve Raise 3 x 8-12

Friday Chest / Shoulders
A Flat Barbell Press 4 x 6-8
B1 Standing Cable Bench 3 x 8-10
B2 Pec Deck 3 x 8-10
C Close-to-Wide Dumbbell Press 3 x 8-10
D Cable Cross over 1 x 100

A Standing DB Shoulder Press
B1 Lateral raise 4 x 6-8
B2 Front Raise 4 x 6-8
C Face Pulls 3 x 8-10
D. Cable Military Press 1 x 100

Saturday - Off

Sunday Triceps / Biceps )
A Close Grip Bench Press 3 x 8-10
B1 Overhead Extension (cable/DB) 4 x 6-8
B2 Dips 4 x 6-8
C Decline Dumbbell Triceps Extension 3 x 8-10
D Cable Pulldowns 1 x 100

A Standing Barbell Curl 3 x 8-10
B1 Preacher Curls 3 x 8-10
B2 Elbows-Out, Close-Grip Barbell Curl 3 x 8-10
C Drag Curls 3 x 8-10
D Cable Curls 1 x 100 [/quote]

You’re a dick.

153

[quote]JonesTurkeyNeck wrote:
I don’t know about you, but I found that working a muscle group (primarily) once per week didn’t do all that much for me.

Does anyone on this site hit each body part twice per week, lifting six days a week, essentially doing the three day split on Sun,Mon,Tues, taking Wed off, then doing it again on Thu,Fri,Sat? I work out pretty hard but didn’t get great results doing each BP just once per week.
[/quote]

You’re right, there’s no harm in working a BP 2x/wk. Ideally, you’d train a muscle again as soon as it recovered and you no longer felt sore from the last session.

You gain absolutely nothing by waiting around and not training when your muscles aren’t sore. This is so simple that I can’t believe people don’t understand it.

If you really want to gain size, you should even train right through soreness. 3x/wk, 4x/wk, why not? You know those frat boys and bar hoppers who are in the gym nearly every day but do nothing besides curls and bench press?

Well, guess which parts of their body are the most developed? That’s right, pecs and arms. In other words, they are getting precisely the results they want from their workouts, yet fat guys on strength forums give them shit for only training “mirror muscles”.

Not only are these guys meeting their training goals, but they are going out and actually getting laid because what do you know, girls like pecs and arms. How many people on the street or in a bar care about your new squat PR?

Maybe Mike the Bear does over in the corner. You can tell him all about it and then he will take you home and sodomize you at no charge.

154

[quote]JonBlood wrote:
I’m still looking for an isolation routine! Advice, anyone?[/quote]

D1 Chest/Back/Lats

-Lever Pec Fly (underhand)
http://www.ukfitnesssupplies.co.uk/prodimg/LIFE-FSFLY_1_large.jpg
-Seated Row
-Cybex Lat Pulldown
http://www.flexfit24.com/Images/Cybex%20Lat%20Pulldown%204516.jpg

D2 Legs

-Lying Leg Press Sled
http://www.usedgymequipment.com/cybex/classic/legpressa.jpg
-Weighted Back Extension
http://cz.commercial.lifefitness.com/resources/category/1/2/0/9/images/thumb.HAMMERSTRENGTH-BackExtend1.jpg
-Leg Extension
-Leg Curl

D3 Arms

-Triceps Pressdown on Seated Dip Machine
http://www.usedgymequipment.com/lifefitness/pro/lfseatdiptripush.jpg

-Hammer Strg Arm Curl

D4 Delts & Traps

-Prone Incline Rear Delt Rows & Flyes
-Incline Front Delt Raises on Bench
-Machine Lateral Raises

  • 1 Arm Cable Shrugs

There you go. That’s my routine and it works phenomenally.

You do have to have access to the specific machines I linked in order to obtain the best results. I can vouch for the effectiveness of the routine but only if you use comparable equipment (“you are only as good as your equipment”).

If you want to make it a 3 day split, combine arms and shoulders into one day. If you want more lower body frequency, split up the leg day into Quad/Hamstring dominant and combine each of them with an upper body day.

155

Wasn’t Thibs belief that you shouldnt do two full HSS-100 sessions for 2 bodyparts on the same day?

156

10 exercises on arm day and on chest+delt day?

Seriously?

157

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
10 exercises on arm day and on chest+delt day?

Seriously?
[/quote]

Thats what im referring to, im almost positive that Thibs suggested more abbreviated versions when you were doing two bodyparts on the same day.

something more like

Heavy Bicep
Heavy Triceps
special - biceps
special triceps
100 rep set - biceps
100 rep set - biceps

or

Heavy bicep
Heavy triceps
superset bicep
superset triceps
100 rep set - biceps
100 rep set - triceps

158

Yes he did state not to do hss for two body parts except for bis and tris. How would I incorporate shoulders into this?

159

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
mr popular wrote:
WS4JB wrote:
BrownTrout wrote:
You know, I’d sure like to see a pic of Waterbury’s physique. All the pictures I know of are pretty unrevealing.

heres an article with quite a few pics of Chad, and here is a pic from his website.

BEHOLD! THE MAN WITH NO DELTOIDS!

Ironically, it looks like Chad Waterbury needs some lateral raises in his life.

I can’t imagine what other lagging bodyparts he might have following his own training philosophy.

CW is a tall and fairly powerful, athletic looking individual. I posted this before but it didn’t show up for some reason. I would not criticize the man’s physique, only his training methodology.

If he had been born with a worse physique he have actually been compelled to seek out an effective hypertrophy routine. Just not the case, though.[/quote]

I have to agree with ya that, you can argue that you dont agree with his work, but it annoys me slightly when people call him small, the guy was close to 280 pounds at one point at 6"3 but then decided to cut down for his own reasons, most likely he just wanted to see if he could get up there, and then realized he really didnt have a reason to keep that weight.

Also, the dude squatted 500 lbs, something none too easy for a 6"3 guy.

Respect.

160

That isn’t the point.

The point is, IF the guy is going to tell people how to look good, and how to succeed as a bodybuilder, he shouldn’t have glaringly obvious flaws in his physique.

No one has a problem with the performance/athletic aspect of his training philosophies. If some 6’3 guy had a goal of squatting 500lbs, nobody would question why he’s taking advice from Waterbury, because in that area he has merit.

The problem is that he is taking radical liberty in telling people how to shape their physique, and putting down so many others that do have merit in that arena.