[quote]Der Candy wrote:
I don’t understand it when people say they train fullbody because of time constraints. Personally, when I used to train fullbody (especially programs like bill starr’s 5x5) they would last longer than my bodypart split workouts do now. I would think that training your entire body in one workout would take significantly longer than training just 1-2 bodyparts a session (and not with crazy volume either).[/quote]
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
I don’t understand it when people say they train fullbody because of time constraints. Personally, when I used to train fullbody (especially programs like bill starr’s 5x5) they would last longer than my bodypart split workouts do now.
I would think that training your entire body in one workout would take significantly longer than training just 1-2 bodyparts a session (and not with crazy volume either).
WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?![/quote]
huh?
im saying what you just said disproves that whole rationality of not having enough time.
like dude it takes 30-60 mins to do a session depending on what lifts they are.
i dont know anybody in the world who doesnt have 45 minutes to spare, even the president has free time
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
im saying what you just said disproves that whole rationality of not having enough time.
like dude it takes 30-60 mins to do a session depending on what lifts they are.
i dont know anybody in the world who doesnt have 45 minutes to spare, even the president has free time[/quote]
this is where lifting at home makes sense. while the sessions themselves are not that long, the difference between 2-3 trips to the gym and 5 can be significant. if you lift at home, it’s easier.
i mention 2 days per week because something like the program provided in Ken Leistnar’s “Sensible Training” article can be done twice per week. it’s a solid full body approach.
for the record, i’m training 5 days per week. but, if you can only do 2-3 60-90 minute sessions per week, it seems that hitting everything (or as much as possible) during those trips is the best use of time.
An A/B “full body” approach could be:
Squat
Bench
Row
accessory or isolation work for arms, traps, calves.
Dead
Military Press
Pull-ups
accessory or isolation work for arms, traps, calves.
3-4 sessions every 8 days, mixing up rep ranges if you want. i don’t see why someone (other than an advanced trainee) wouldn’t get bigger on that. if someone wanted to do a 3 way day split they could do that too, but I don’t think it’s inherently better if the weekly volume works out the same.
[quote]trextacy wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
im saying what you just said disproves that whole rationality of not having enough time.
like dude it takes 30-60 mins to do a session depending on what lifts they are.
i dont know anybody in the world who doesnt have 45 minutes to spare, even the president has free time
this is where lifting at home makes sense. while the sessions themselves are not that long, the difference between 2-3 trips to the gym and 5 can be significant. if you lift at home, it’s easier.
i mention 2 days per week because something like the program provided in Ken Leistnar’s “Sensible Training” article can be done twice per week. it’s a solid full body approach.
for the record, i’m training 5 days per week. but, if you can only do 2-3 60-90 minute sessions per week, it seems that hitting everything (or as much as possible) during those trips is the best use of time.
An A/B “full body” approach could be:
Squat
Bench
Row
accessory or isolation work for arms, traps, calves.
Dead
Military Press
Pull-ups
accessory or isolation work for arms, traps, calves.
3-4 sessions every 8 days, mixing up rep ranges if you want. i don’t see why someone (other than an advanced trainee) wouldn’t get bigger on that. if someone wanted to do a 3 way day split they could do that too, but I don’t think it’s inherently better if the weekly volume works out the same.[/quote]
ya for a lot of people they just don’t want to make the trip back and forth 5 days a week from the gym for a split routine. a lot of people train after work during rush hour so a back and forth trip could be even longer then your gym time. also consider gas prices and what not. that could be 2 hours of travel that could have been spent doing extra work in the gym if they only go 3 days and do a full body workout everyday. there’s a lot of factors to consider as to what is actually time saving. not just how long it takes to finish a workout. again just a thought.
Justify it all you want. If you’re happy with 2-3 days a week working out I’m not faulting you. Most of us here, want to get bigger than that limiting time factor would allow. So while I appreciate CW’s free programs he puts on here, they’re not really pertinent to a BB forum.
Maybe a general wellness and above average strength forum needs to be created.
I don’t think anyone is justifying anything. Some people believe that full body or upper/lower splits based on greater frequency is superior than a “typical bodybuilding split” (a 4 or 5 way split).
These things worked before CW, but unfortunately his name has become synonymous with “full body” or “TBT” approaches. That’s great for CW, for marketing purposes, but the reality is that the program I laid out above is a great approach for bodybuilding purposes. Hell, even the much vaunted Doggcrapp is a 2-way split where the whole body is hit twice every 8 days…the idea being that it’s better to stimulate a bodyparty twice per week than the “typical” BB split where it’s hit once every 6-7 days.
lifting at home sucks ESPECIALLY for bodybuilding
mainly because extremely limited equipment unless youre a millionaire
im sorry but you can not get a full BBing workout with all the trimmings from a power rack and some dumbells, i dont care how many bands you have.
PLUS whos gonna be there to see you crush weights? i like when people see me lifting more than them and i devestate their self-esteem or when they stop doing whatever exercise they were doing when i come next to them.
[quote]Free2Be wrote:
There was a time in my life when I did not got to bed until at least 9pm and usually 11pm because I worked full time and went to school. I would then wake up at 3:30am to go to the gym. Do you know many people that are so committed to anything to that extent? To me, if you slept it is an excuse. I also had 3 kids at the time…still do.
I was once married to a Marine. The former wife didn’t complete a task, and she said, “I didn’t have time.” To her SSgt, to which he replied, “Did you sleep last night?” She didn’t get it, I did. I was not a Marine, but I found out that my life has more closely aligned to Marine Corps values than most Marines lives do. I was one of those pussy assed Airmen btw. 
[/quote]
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.
[quote]trextacy wrote:
Some people believe that full body or upper/lower splits based on greater frequency is superior than a “typical bodybuilding split” (a 4 or 5 way split).
[/quote]
Superior for what goals though? For size? For strength? Because if it’s either then there are better options available for each. I realize that not everyone wants to be BBer size. I realize not everyone wants to be the strongest man alive. That’s fine. If the TBT workouts give you the means to your goal then nobody is faulting that. The problem therein lies when followers of said TBT program (and CW himself) proclaim that they know more than the guys that HAVE been lifting strictly for size or strength and succeeding.
Would you listen to a guy on how to bench heavy if he couldn’t put up 135?
To be clear, I’m not saying a 5 day split is the alpha/omega of building size. I like an antagonistic split myself, and I’m still seeing good gains from it. I have even gone with a 3 day pseudo tbt split when I’ve wanted something different. It’s when that claim is made that TBT IS the be all end all, that causes the ire.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.[/quote]
We’d be a much different and IMO better society as men if we didn’t namby pamby shit up, and stayed strong in regards to being macho. Why you are decrying this attitude on a site called testosterone nation seems a bit foreign to me.
I also don’t see how he said he was self destructive, merely committed to his goals. Not a lot of people are in this day and age. People are quick to blame something for their abject failure instead of owning up to it.
“Oh I’m a hardgainer”
“Oh it’s because I have shitty genetics”
“I just can’t make the time”
“I can’t not eat healthy because of XXX”
etc
etc
etc…
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.[/quote]
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
[/quote]
I agree. It’s far, far better to be a lazy bastard and coast through life instead of clinging to such antiquated notions as “working for a living” and actually taking pride in your way of life. Woe betide those who take pride in their work. I saw a farmer ploughing a field once -the guy genuinely seemed to be enjoying it!!. Imagine that!! Although already weak with laughter, I mustered the energy to tell the farmer that he was a workhorse and that he’d inevitably die as a result of his daily labor. My advice was naturally delivered with the pompous and condescending manner of someone that doesn’t know what the fuck they are talking about. Meanwhile, his horse stood nearby, quietly chewing hay and enjoying the irony of the situation.
The farmer stopped, listened to my words of wisdom, laid his tools at his feet, and silently walked away. Yes, his departure could have been prompted by the fatigue brought on by his workload. Although I’d like to think that he was dazzled by my superior command of logic and my extensive vocabulary.
The last I heard was that he sold up his property and belongings, signed on for welfare, and became a couch-dwelling slob who never stepped out of doors again for fear of working his body “into the ground”. The rest of his life was one rich in squalor, cockroaches, and take out. The next time he left his apartment was on a stretcher carried by twelve people; oh, what a sight to behold - he was like a king of old: the transformation was beautiful. It was like a caterpillar changing into a butterfly. He died in serenity surrounded by 300 of his friends (all coincidentally called ‘pound’) and a liberal helping of his own faeces (I mean, why bother getting up!)…
Ah well -at least he earned it. I always feel a swell of satisfaction when I think of that little anecdote. Imagine what would have happened if I hadn’t happened by that day: I shudder to think what would have become of the farmer if he’d continued down his path of self-destruction…
[quote]
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.[/quote]
And for every “older military guy” that has to have their ass wiped by someone else, there are plenty of army vets that could kick the collective asses of men twenty, thirty, forty years their junior, in spite of leading “self-destructive lives”…
[quote]
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.[/quote]
Really?
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/100_Year_Old_Hardass_Man_Fights_Off_Gang_of_Teenage_Muggers_Using_Kung_Fu
The moral of the story is this: don’t fuck with people older and wiser than you.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
lifting at home sucks ESPECIALLY for bodybuilding
mainly because extremely limited equipment unless youre a millionaire
im sorry but you can not get a full BBing workout with all the trimmings from a power rack and some dumbells, i dont care how many bands you have.
PLUS whos gonna be there to see you crush weights? i like when people see me lifting more than them and i devestate their self-esteem or when they stop doing whatever exercise they were doing when i come next to them.[/quote]
I agree you won’t have as many option lifting at home but a little creativity can go a long way. For advanced lifters, a gym is certainly more practical.
However, I think if you need to have people see you crushing weights, it’s more like you have a self esteem problem, not the other way around, lol.
[quote]Aggro wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.
We’d be a much different and IMO better society as men if we didn’t namby pamby shit up, and stayed strong in regards to being macho. Why you are decrying this attitude on a site called testosterone nation seems a bit foreign to me.
[/quote]
We have that society already. Bodybuilding is anti-thetical to the “macho mentality” because “real men” are supposed to drink, smoke, not care about their diet or appearance. Weight lifting was considered effeminate by the general public up until about the 1980’s, and bodybuilding was thought of as a gay hobby. It still is to many people who don’t go to the gym.
You don’t see how working full-time and lifting weights on 4 hours of sleep is self destructive behavior?
Masculinity changes with the times and this site preaches its own ideal, a version which would have been very foreign to most males circa 1950. You want to lift weights to grow your muscles? You nancy boy. Real men do jumping jacks and run laps. Masculinity is in your attitude and your height, not your muscles. If you’re <6 feet tall, you’re not a real man and won’t ever be. That’s the 1920-1960’s standard of physical fitness.
Thousands of young men engage in self-destructive rituals which they learn from older men. Nearly every male vice is blatantly self-destructive, while female vices tend to have positive effects for the perpetrator, albeit at the cost of others.
The message is that “upright” men have a duty to give up their health for the sake of protecting “the weak”, which obviously means women and children. Males are worthless and generally expendable, while females are precious and valuable commodities.
This is a slave morality. F.W. Nietzsche would not approve.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Aggro wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
We have that society already. Bodybuilding is anti-thetical to the “macho mentality” because “real men” are supposed to drink, smoke, not care about their diet or appearance. Weight lifting was considered effeminate by the general public up until about the 1980’s, and bodybuilding was thought of as a gay hobby. It still is to many people who don’t go to the gym.
You don’t see how working full-time and lifting weights on 4 hours of sleep is self destructive behavior?
Masculinity changes with the times and this site preaches its own ideal, a version which would have been very foreign to most males circa 1950. You want to lift weights to grow your muscles? You nancy boy. Real men do jumping jacks and run laps. Masculinity is in your attitude and your height, not your muscles. If you’re <6 feet tall, you’re not a real man and won’t ever be. That’s the 1920-1960’s standard of physical fitness.
Thousands of young men engage in self-destructive rituals which they learn from older men. Nearly every male vice is blatantly self-destructive, while female vices tend to have positive effects for the perpetrator, albeit at the cost of others.
The message is that “upright” men have a duty to give up their health for the sake of protecting “the weak”, which obviously means women and children. Males are worthless and generally expendable, while females are precious and valuable commodities.
This is a slave morality. F.W. Nietzsche would not approve.[/quote]
So during that brief amount of time you would think it better to not train? I disagree. I believe training is one way to release all the stress and trauma from all the other activities of the day. So…one aspect of my life was messed up ie sleep so I should not train? I slept rather long and hard during the weekends.
I’d rather live hard and die young with a great quality of life while I’m alive. Besides 4 hours of sleep is not horrible, most military men I know smoke like a smoke stack, drink like fish and do many other self destructive things.
I have read a few of your posts and even when you are wrong you won’t admit it so this is likely my last post to you.
[quote]roybot wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
I agree. It’s far, far better to be a lazy bastard and coast through life instead of clinging to such antiquated notions as “working for a living” and actually taking pride in your way of life. Woe betide those who take pride in their work. I saw a farmer ploughing a field once -the guy genuinely seemed to be enjoying it!!. Imagine that!! Although already weak with laughter, I mustered the energy to tell the farmer that he was a workhorse and that he’d inevitably die as a result of his daily labor. My advice was naturally delivered with the pompous and condescending manner of someone that doesn’t know what the fuck they are talking about. Meanwhile, his horse stood nearby, quietly chewing hay and enjoying the irony of the situation.
The farmer stopped, listened to my words of wisdom, laid his tools at his feet, and silently walked away. Yes, his departure could have been prompted by the fatigue brought on by his workload. Although I’d like to think that he was dazzled by my superior command of logic and my extensive vocabulary.
The last I heard was that he sold up his property and belongings, signed on for welfare, and became a couch-dwelling slob who never stepped out of doors again for fear of working his body “into the ground”. The rest of his life was one rich in squalor, cockroaches, and take out. The next time he left his apartment was on a stretcher carried by twelve people; oh, what a sight to behold - he was like a king of old: the transformation was beautiful. It was like a caterpillar changing into a butterfly. He died in serenity surrounded by 300 of his friends (all coincidentally called ‘pound’) and a liberal helping of his own faeces (I mean, why bother getting up!)…
Ah well -at least he earned it. I always feel a swell of satisfaction when I think of that little anecdote. Imagine what would have happened if I hadn’t happened by that day: I shudder to think what would have become of the farmer if he’d continued down his path of self-destruction…
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
And for every “older military guy” that has to have their ass wiped by someone else, there are plenty of army vets that could kick the collective asses of men twenty, thirty, forty years their junior, in spite of leading “self-destructive lives”…
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.
Really?
http://digg.com/odd_stuff/100_Year_Old_Hardass_Man_Fights_Off_Gang_of_Teenage_Muggers_Using_Kung_Fu
The moral of the story is this: don’t fuck with people older and wiser than you.
[/quote]
Great fucking post!
[quote]Aggro wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.
We’d be a much different and IMO better society as men if we didn’t namby pamby shit up, and stayed strong in regards to being macho. Why you are decrying this attitude on a site called testosterone nation seems a bit foreign to me.
I also don’t see how he said he was self destructive, merely committed to his goals. Not a lot of people are in this day and age. People are quick to blame something for their abject failure instead of owning up to it.
“Oh I’m a hardgainer”
“Oh it’s because I have shitty genetics”
“I just can’t make the time”
“I can’t not eat healthy because of XXX”
etc
etc
etc…[/quote]
Agreed.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.[/quote]
Yeah, because your machine-only workouts and soft-princess behavior will keep you beautiful forever and ever, until a dark, and handsome prince comes to take you away to la-la land and live happily ever after…
fag
A true man goes after his dreams, no matter how many walls are in front of him, protects his own and leaves a legacy… I would MUCH rather end my days wearing diapers but looking back and realizing that I did things MY WAY, I achieved as much as I could and what I didn’t achieve, I still pursued it full force, with honor and maintained truthfulness to my beliefs. If you’re only in this world to admire yourself in the mirror, you’re a fucking waste of human space. Have you seen the name of this website? What the fuck are you doing here??
[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.
Yeah, because your machine-only workouts and soft-princess behavior will keep you beautiful forever and ever, until a dark, and handsome prince comes to take you away to la-la land and live happily ever after…
fag
A true man goes after his dreams, no matter how many walls are in front of him, protects his own and leaves a legacy… I would MUCH rather end my days wearing diapers but looking back and realizing that I did things MY WAY, I achieved as much as I could and what I didn’t achieve, I still pursued it full force, with honor and maintained truthfulness to my beliefs. If you’re only in this world to admire yourself in the mirror, you’re a fucking waste of human space. Have you seen the name of this website? What the fuck are you doing here??
[/quote]
It’s the prophecy man, you can’t stop it. Don’t you hear it? the hard work will catch up and we’ll be fucked up.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.
The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.
Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.[/quote]
Umm… who gives a shit? Life is too short to be a skinny weakling. Why weigh 200lb, when you can be 250lb?