Opinions of Chad Waterbury Programs?

Training Bodybuilding
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[quote]Aggro wrote:
Justify it all you want. If you’re happy with 2-3 days a week working out I’m not faulting you. Most of us here, want to get bigger than that limiting time factor would allow. So while I appreciate CW’s free programs he puts on here, they’re not really pertinent to a BB forum.

Maybe a general wellness and above average strength forum needs to be created.[/quote]

So if somebody has put on over 60 lbs. while keeping bodyfat pretty low and STILL improving, wouldn’t that be considered somewhat “bodybuilding” as well? although “bodybuilding” as a sport is not the primary goal, don’t you think it would count as well? Wouldn’t count for results rather than for methods? Maybe THIS forum should be renamed “Strictly Hypertrophy” or “Established Dogma”.

Just some food for thought… Believe it or not, there are some dudes out there that have set high goals and higher standards while following different methods that are going way beyond “general wellness and above average strength”.

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Like I said I’m not saying any split is the be all end all. Isn’t the term bodybuilding somewhat misleading anyway? Like some people would argue that PX isn’t a BBer and that merely because someone “competes” is? Which is seemingly bullshit anyway.

And these guys you’re referring to, are they utilizing a CW program primarily? Are they decrying any other program BUT a CW one? Do they say things like “I could be bigger but I simply don’t have the time due to job/wife/kids/social life/etc”?

My goal isn’t the only one to have, just like I think your goal isn’t. The thing is though when you’re looking at goals that are similar, wouldn’t you primarily try to do what got other people there? Utilizing their experience for your benefit?

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[quote]Free2Be wrote:
So during that brief amount of time you would think it better to not train? I disagree. I believe training is one way to release all the stress and trauma from all the other activities of the day. So…one aspect of my life was messed up ie sleep so I should not train? I slept rather long and hard during the weekends.

I’d rather live hard and die young with a great quality of life while I’m alive. Besides 4 hours of sleep is not horrible, most military men I know smoke like a smoke stack, drink like fish and do many other self destructive things.[/quote]

I would get my life in order rather than engaging in self destructive behavior. People don’t end up in situations like yours by accident, but through making bad decisions - also a consequence of false bravado.

Training may feel like a release to you but what you are really doing is getting high by breaking your own body down. You’re basically a junky, there’s no difference. Your drugs are adrenaline and cortisol, which are disease causing hormones.

Yeah, if you die young you get to beat the system and avoid having to spend the latter half of your life paying back the piper. But what if you don’t die? Will you have the guts to take your own life when you are bedridden?

[quote]Free2Be wrote:
I have read a few of your posts and even when you are wrong you won’t admit it so this is likely my last post to you.[/quote]

Heh, I love this line. Before you start ignoring me, please tell me two things: A) When was I wrong? and B) Can you name one other veteran poster on this site who “admits to being wrong” on a regular or even semi-regular basis. Come to think of it, can you tell me when was the last time you admit to being wrong?

I’ll wait.

[quote]
I agree. It’s far, far better to be a lazy bastard and coast through life instead of clinging to such antiquated notions as “working for a living” and actually taking pride in your way of life. Woe betide those who take pride in their work. I saw a farmer ploughing a field once -the guy genuinely seemed to be enjoying it!!. Imagine that!! Although already weak with laughter, I mustered the energy to tell the farmer that he was a workhorse and that he’d inevitably die as a result of his daily labor. My advice was naturally delivered with the pompous and condescending manner of someone that doesn’t know what the fuck they are talking about. Meanwhile, his horse stood nearby, quietly chewing hay and enjoying the irony of the situation.

The farmer stopped, listened to my words of wisdom, laid his tools at his feet, and silently walked away. Yes, his departure could have been prompted by the fatigue brought on by his workload. Although I’d like to think that he was dazzled by my superior command of logic and my extensive vocabulary.

The last I heard was that he sold up his property and belongings, signed on for welfare, and became a couch-dwelling slob who never stepped out of doors again for fear of working his body “into the ground”. The rest of his life was one rich in squalor, cockroaches, and take out. The next time he left his apartment was on a stretcher carried by twelve people; oh, what a sight to behold - he was like a king of old: the transformation was beautiful. It was like a caterpillar changing into a butterfly. He died in serenity surrounded by 300 of his friends (all coincidentally called ‘pound’) and a liberal helping of his own faeces (I mean, why bother getting up!)…

Ah well -at least he earned it. I always feel a swell of satisfaction when I think of that little anecdote. Imagine what would have happened if I hadn’t happened by that day: I shudder to think what would have become of the farmer if he’d continued down his path of self-destruction…[/quote]

I don’t know what the hell happened to this post. It does not show up on the thread except as a quote inside someone else’s post. In any case, I never said there was anything wrong in taking pride in one’s work. I said there was something wrong in enslaving yourself to someone else and ruining your health in the process. If you consider your health and your body to be expendable, then I can only consider you to be an idiot who deserves everything that’s coming to him. If, on the other hand, you are a true individual who seeks to improve himself - intellectually and physically, as well as through your labor - then I salute you.

[quote]
And for every “older military guy” that has to have their ass wiped by someone else, there are plenty of army vets that could kick the collective asses of men twenty, thirty, forty years their junior, in spite of leading “self-destructive lives”…[/quote]

Not really. The army builds discipline, that’s about it. You don’t need discipline to win a fight. Inner city kids have no discipline but they would have no problem taking on a military guy because they’re very aggressive. Think Mike Tyson. Think someone like that would give two shits about fighting some worn out marine? I doubt it. It’s not as if the military teaches people how to be great individual fighters. The biggest thing the military does is take juvenile delinquents and turn them into uptight pricks who look down on “civilians” for the rest of their lives.

Oh, how cute. Pat yourself on the back for that one.

All sentimentality and machismo aside, seniors can’t fight off roving gangs of teenagers, 999 times out of 1000. If you want to place bets on it, I’d be more than happy to do so…

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[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
Yeah, because your machine-only workouts and soft-princess behavior will keep you beautiful forever and ever, until a dark, and handsome prince comes to take you away to la-la land and live happily ever after…

fag

A true man goes after his dreams, no matter how many walls are in front of him, protects his own and leaves a legacy… I would MUCH rather end my days wearing diapers but looking back and realizing that I did things MY WAY, I achieved as much as I could and what I didn’t achieve, I still pursued it full force, with honor and maintained truthfulness to my beliefs. If you’re only in this world to admire yourself in the mirror, you’re a fucking waste of human space. Have you seen the name of this website? What the fuck are you doing here??[/quote]

Wait, so the 16 year old “thugs” who smoke blunts, drink beer and stay out until 3 AM are “real men pursuing their dreams”?

You are an idiot, you missed the point of my post completely.
I was trying to illustrate the fact that males have a tendency to needlessly engage in self-destructive behavior. NEEDLESSLY, I said. Not, “in pursuit of their dreams”. Get it?

And you won’t be remembering your own name, much less what you did over 30 years ago, when you get old, because you’ll have Alzheimer’s. All the stiff old bastards get that disease. It’s easy to see why. When you make a conscious decision to shut off your higher thinking processes, those will be the first things your body lets go of in the event of an illness.

Achieving your dreams will reap you nothing if you have to turn yourself into a fucking cripple in order to get there, will it? The point of life is to live. You can’t live properly if you don’t have your health. And contrary to popular mythology, there’s nothing noble or honorable in destroying it.

Many Americans are fond of quoting Eastern philosophy - you know, all that karate/kung-foo shit - but let me tell you, Easterners would think you’re a bunch of fucking imbeciles for destroying yourselves in the ways that have become habitual to Westerners.

In the East, everything is about attaining balance. If you devote a certain amount of time to breaking yourself down, you must devote an equal amount to building yourself back up. This is what any real Zen Master would tell you.

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Umm… who gives a shit? Life is too short to be a skinny weakling. Why weigh 200lb, when you can be 250lb?[/quote]

What made you infer that I have something against 250 lb. muscular bodybuilders? That’s a pretty big leap to make given that I was talking about smokers and alcoholics in my last post. Bodybuilders are healthier as a group than the normal population.

[quote]Aggro wrote:
Like I said I’m not saying any split is the be all end all. Isn’t the term bodybuilding somewhat misleading anyway? Like some people would argue that PX isn’t a BBer and that merely because someone “competes” is? Which is seemingly bullshit anyway.[/quote]

Keep it simple, the way I do with my clients. I only recognize two groups of trainees:

  1. Bodybuilders. This is any one who trains primarily for aesthetic goals.

  2. Athletes. Anyone who trains primarily for performance related goals (including strength).

No need to overcomplicate things.

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I’m sure eastern bodybuilders would disagree.

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
lifting at home sucks ESPECIALLY for bodybuilding

mainly because extremely limited equipment unless youre a millionaire

im sorry but you can not get a full BBing workout with all the trimmings from a power rack and some dumbells, i dont care how many bands you have.

PLUS whos gonna be there to see you crush weights? i like when people see me lifting more than them and i devestate their self-esteem or when they stop doing whatever exercise they were doing when i come next to them.

I agree you won’t have as many option lifting at home but a little creativity can go a long way. For advanced lifters, a gym is certainly more practical.

However, I think if you need to have people see you crushing weights, it’s more like you have a self esteem problem, not the other way around, lol.[/quote]

call it whatever you want, i just enjoy the feeling of being stronger than a lot of people in my gym even though theres still a lot of people there stronger than me. its a nice sense of accomplishment though. some people wanna run really fast, some people wanna cure cancer, some people wanna be actors and i just wanna lift weights.

327

[quote]Aggro wrote:
Like I said I’m not saying any split is the be all end all. Isn’t the term bodybuilding somewhat misleading anyway? Like some people would argue that PX isn’t a BBer and that merely because someone “competes” is? Which is seemingly bullshit anyway.[/quote]

Yeap, that’s my point exactly.

I agree, but it goes the same way when thinking that the only way to get bigger and build muscle is to split into individual bodyparts. Which one is more optimal? IT all depends on the goals and what you’re after,

HOWEVER, I truly believe that fat/skinny de-conditioned dudes have NO business having an “arms” day or a “shoulder” day, they will get far better results building a big strong base working their entire body and taking advantage of the increased metabolic rate and work capacity that this method offers.

On the same token, an advanced trainer would definitely see benefits simply because his body would have to adapt to that new stimulus. The perfect example of that is HIT, which in my opinion is the biggest gimmick in bodybuilding, but it worked for that same reason.

I’m personally quite intrigued by DC training and I know at some point I will dive deep into it, but at this point, my training is working just fine and fits my goals and all the other things around them.

I personally have seen GREAT results by following a lot CW programs, but I will definitely say that if you’re a follower of BB as a sport and you’re strictly after aesthetics, by all means go for it, all I’m saying is that there are also other ways to build muscle.

But yeah, unfortunately, a lot of people that train with some form of TBT seem to justify their results (or lack thereof) with “I’m a busy guy” or “I don’t want to get too big” excuses.

Absolutely, but the sources for that knowledge come from different places and once again, it depends on what you’re after, but getting bigger and stronger really correlates more with the stimulus you force into your body rather than how you organize your workouts.

Listen, when I started seeing great results with my training, sometimes I would see other guys at the gym and thought they were a bunch of wimps because they weren’t grinding out olympic lifts and doing compound lifts almost exclusively, but now I realize that some of those same dudes had pretty big physiques and if that’s what they’re after exclusively, how in the hell can I dictate what’s the best way for them to train? The same goes the other way around…

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[quote]Der Candy wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:

Yes, there is a certain perspective which holds that it is proper and respectable for men to run their bodies into the ground in pursuit of work. Males are work horses and they are expendable. I don’t subscribe to that mythology.

The months or years you spent pursuing health-destroying activities will catch up to you. Whatever efficiency you gained during that time will be lost when you are stricken with chronic illnesses and forced to rely on others to care for you in your old age. Do you know any older military guys with very poor health who need their wives to act as their babysitters? Bet you do.

Keep up that macho, self-destructive attitude and you’ll end up wearing diapers in some nursing home with a woman watching over you as if you were a toddler. That’s what happens to all those hard-ass military guys.

Umm… who gives a shit? Life is too short to be a skinny weakling. Why weigh 200lb, when you can be 250lb?[/quote]

i am not sure how your reply fits in with what Nominal prospect said but…unless your an athlete or compete in a physical sport or perhaps have a physically demanding career all that extra muscle or strength is almost irrelevant in real life. yes i am arguing for the other side of the spectrum and its one i am not even on. i mean 99% of the world just doesn’t give a shit about being huge or strong. they figure who gives a fuck i will hardly ever get a chance to apply this outside of the gym. and its true i have rarely if ever had to apply an amount of strength that an average male could not out side of the gym.

also being about 20-30 heavier then the average male hasn’t benefited me either in anyway other way then making me feel good about me. and like i said a ton of people already feel good about how they look and just don’t care about being huge or strong as long as they are relatively healthy and can live a full comfortable life. to them your strength and muscles is a luxury they can live without and it just isn’t something worth the effort they would have to put in to get that way.

i mean would you look at any man who’s driving a regular car and not a jaguar as lazy because he doesn’t really want to work for the jaguar because he feels its a luxury that he doesn’t need and doesn’t wanna put the effort into acquiring it.

most people just don’t feel the end result of being 250 lbs justified the means of getting there. and this doesn’t mean they don’t respect people like us either. big muscles and being strong are just luxuries to most of us who lift just like the difference between a big flat screen TV and a normal TV. so other then the reasons i touched on above i say to you…why not?

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Huh? Who the hell is talking about 16 year old “thugs”? You were referring to military people and their “macho” behaviors, how is that NEEDLESSLY you dumbass?

If you are too worried about what you’re going to look like or remember 30,40 or 50 years from now, you’ll never live to the full extend, there’s a big difference between living a healthy life and being overly cautious of everything you do. Those thing you quote as eastern philosophy are actually universal values that obviously you don’t understand.
In any case, you are the last person in this planet I’d discuss philosophy and life, I also know that is going to be pointless for me to try to make a point across to you, so I won’t waste anymore of my time.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
m1sf1t wrote:
Yeah, because your machine-only workouts and soft-princess behavior will keep you beautiful forever and ever, until a dark, and handsome prince comes to take you away to la-la land and live happily ever after…

fag

A true man goes after his dreams, no matter how many walls are in front of him, protects his own and leaves a legacy… I would MUCH rather end my days wearing diapers but looking back and realizing that I did things MY WAY, I achieved as much as I could and what I didn’t achieve, I still pursued it full force, with honor and maintained truthfulness to my beliefs.

If you’re only in this world to admire yourself in the mirror, you’re a fucking waste of human space. Have you seen the name of this website? What the fuck are you doing here??

Wait, so the 16 year old “thugs” who smoke blunts, drink beer and stay out until 3 AM are “real men pursuing their dreams”?

You are an idiot, you missed the point of my post completely.

I was trying to illustrate the fact that males have a tendency to needlessly engage in self-destructive behavior. NEEDLESSLY, I said. Not, “in pursuit of their dreams”. Get it?

And you won’t be remembering your own name, much less what you did over 30 years ago, when you get old, because you’ll have Alzheimer’s. All the stiff old bastards get that disease.

It’s easy to see why. When you make a conscious decision to shut off your higher thinking processes, those will be the first things your body lets go of in the event of an illness.

Achieving your dreams will reap you nothing if you have to turn yourself into a fucking cripple in order to get there, will it? The point of life is to live. You can’t live properly if you don’t have your health. And contrary to popular mythology, there’s nothing noble or honorable in destroying it.

Many Americans are fond of quoting Eastern philosophy - you know, all that karate/kung-foo shit - but let me tell you, Easterners would think you’re a bunch of fucking imbeciles for destroying yourselves in the ways that have become habitual to Westerners.

In the East, everything is about attaining balance. If you devote a certain amount of time to breaking yourself down, you must devote an equal amount to building yourself back up. This is what any real Zen Master would tell you.

[/quote]

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[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
Huh? Who the hell is talking about 16 year old “thugs”? You were referring to military people and their “macho” behaviors, how is that NEEDLESSLY you dumbass?

If you are too worried about what you’re going to look like or remember 30,40 or 50 years from now, you’ll never live to the full extend, there’s a big difference between living a healthy life and being overly cautious of everything you do. Those thing you quote as eastern philosophy are actually universal values that obviously you don’t understand.
In any case, you are the last person in this planet I’d discuss philosophy and life, I also know that is going to be pointless for me to try to make a point across to you, so I won’t waste anymore of my time.[/quote]

I believe in taking risks and fighting for one’s goals. I just don’t believe in self-sacrifice. I’m an egoist, after all.

Let’s wait a few decades and see which one of us turns out to have had a better life. You can join the military, I’ll become an entrepreneur and form my own business. Someday, I’ll own the plot of land which you call home.

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[quote]Clifford wrote:
i mean would you look at any man who’s driving a regular car and not a jaguar as lazy because he doesn’t really want to work for the jaguar because he feels its a luxury that he doesn’t need and doesn’t wanna put the effort into acquiring it.[/quote]

Good analogy. Although I, personally, would love to look like Dennis Wolf and would gladly put in the effort it takes to get there, I can’t fault someone else for not sharing that goal. For they may be equally passionate about something that I don’t care for.

Just so long as they are passionate, however. I have no time for weak willed individuals, and there is plenty of fault to be found in mediocrity.

Successful people know how to trust themselves and along with trusting one’s self comes taking care of one’s self. Most people (men, especially) are practically hellbent on destroying themselves. It’s almost comical to watch.

Humans are so pathetic because they create their own problems and then pretend there’s nothing that can be done about them.

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Don’t get sucked down the NP vortex.

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Humans really are pathetic LOL

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[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Clifford wrote:
i mean would you look at any man who’s driving a regular car and not a jaguar as lazy because he doesn’t really want to work for the jaguar because he feels its a luxury that he doesn’t need and doesn’t wanna put the effort into acquiring it.

Good analogy. Although I, personally, would love to look like Dennis Wolf and would gladly put in the effort it takes to get there, I can’t fault someone else for not sharing that goal. For they may be equally passionate about something that I don’t care for.

Just so long as they are passionate, however. I have no time for weak willed individuals, and there is plenty of fault to be found in mediocrity.

Successful people know how to trust themselves and along with trusting one’s self comes taking care of one’s self. Most people (men, especially) are practically hellbent on destroying themselves. It’s almost comical to watch.

Humans are so pathetic because they create their own problems and then pretend there’s nothing that can be done about them.[/quote]

ill agree with you 100% on not finding fault in someone because they don’t give a shit about your passion. lets face it you probably don’t give a shit about theirs either.

as for fault in mediocrity…well mediocrity is essential i mean if everyone were extraordinary at something then there wouldn’t be any extraordinary people. lets face it most of us passionate or otherwise about something will probably never achieve extraordinary results.

i mean just cause one person plays golf every day and trains their ass off doesn’t mean they will ever be good enough to play in the PGA tour. in fact they likely wont ever be good enough to be considered extraordinary, but that doesn’t stop them from trying.

while you may never resemble Dennis Wolf who’s to say you live a life of mediocrity. they don’t know how hard you worked to get where you are. i mean some people will say “well Clifford you know if you work hard enough and do your best anything is possible”. i don’t believe we were all made equal. some people are just gonna be better then you (not at everything).

you are gonna do your best and you still wont achieve greatness. that’s life and it sucks like that but its true. and that isn’t to say they worked harder then you did either.

a great example would be back when you were in school there was always this one kid who would ace every test and he would hardly ever crack open a book to study, then you would have the normal kid who would cram for hours every day and still get a lower mark. i know you all had that kid in your class at least i did. and honestly all i am trying to say is you cant really judge these people as being weak willed individuals.

hell some people will never even care about standing out in anything as long as they are happy. and is the pursuit of happiness not everyone’s ultimate goal in life, for some that could come from what you may view as mediocrity. and who could ever truly be happy without passion. those that truly have no passion are often those who commit suicide.

in the end its very difficult for anyone to really sneer at mediocrity for you yourself may be mediocre in the eyes of another beholder.

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[quote]Aggro wrote:
Don’t get sucked down the NP vortex.

[/quote]

He is a complete douche bag and contradicts him self with every new post.

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[quote]Free2Be wrote:
Aggro wrote:
Don’t get sucked down the NP vortex.

He is a complete douche bag and contradicts him self with every new post.[/quote]

is this warning directed at me?

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When I posted my comment it came up right after M1sf1t’s post. I should of quoted it instead I guess.

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[quote]Aggro wrote:
Don’t get sucked down the NP vortex.

[/quote]

Has anyone noticed that the troll OP stopped posting a while back? I’m starting to think he’s actually NP’s boyfriend and he just stirred shit up to set the stage for his delusional bullshit.

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[quote]m1sf1t wrote:
Aggro wrote:
Don’t get sucked down the NP vortex.

Has anyone noticed that the troll OP stopped posting a while back? I’m starting to think he’s actually NP’s boyfriend and he just stirred shit up to set the stage for his delusional bullshit.

[/quote]

Or how this thread has NOTHING to do with opinions on Waterbury’s programs anymore?

I can’t believe you guys just keep egging on the troll.

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[quote]Free2Be wrote:
He is a complete douche bag and contradicts him self with every new post.[/quote]

I asked you two simple questions and you couldn’t answer either of them. Lots of vitriol, not much to back it up.

[quote]SSC wrote:
Or how this thread has NOTHING to do with opinions on Waterbury’s programs anymore?

I can’t believe you guys just keep egging on the troll.[/quote]

Who is a troll and what is so terrible about a conversation evolving away from the topic that started it? Maybe you are a troll? Troll? Everyone on this forum seems obsessed with the word.