Opinions of Chad Waterbury Programs?

Training Bodybuilding
281

[quote]maglite wrote:

i hear ya guys. Guess it doesn’t make much sense to you guys and thats cool. It doesn’t make sense for me professionally to weigh 220+ pounds. I have no problem wanting to keep single digit bodyfat and be around 200 pounds, but that’s just me. I will admit, i do get a kick out of you guys rippin me up!!

[/quote]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being 200 and single-digit b.f., especially if those are your goals. It’s just that you’ve been trying to “prove your case” in a weird way, almost like making excuses for not being bigger or justify the way that you train.

282

[quote]Free2Be wrote:
It all depends on your goals for sure, but not really too good for bodybuilding. Like getting very big.[/quote]

You do realize that what helps pro bodybuilders get “very big” will be just as effective at helping normal people get “big” and small people get to “normal”, right?

Or do you buy into this mainstream crap spouted by personal trainers who try to convince average people that they should train completely differently from bodybuilders - who are the foremost experts on body recomp - simply because they don’t want to get that big and ripped?

Let me put it this way: If a certain technique helps Ronnie Coleman gain size, it will also help a 150 lb. kid gain size.

And if another technique doesn’t work for Ronnie, the kid is better off not doing it, either.

Your training doesn’t change whether you are trying to gain 5 lbs. of muscle or 50. Chad Waterbury said that first, not me. Somewhat ironical, given the programs he recommends for hypertrophy.

If olympic style lifting wouldn’t be the best way for an IFFB Pro to train, then by extension, it also wouldn’t be the best way for an average guy to train if his primary goal was muscle mass.

Amazing how few people understand this.

[quote]Itchy wrote:
SSC wrote:

And can some please define what exactly functional means? Pretty please???

It means you have small arms.
Probably a big mouth, too.[/quote]

Haha. Good definition.

283

[quote]Itchy wrote:
Free2Be wrote:
The people in this world plain piss me off X, but this board in particular, they show a total disdain for belief in what can be accomplished.

Most of these people spend at least an hour in front of the television and most much more than that, to “unwind.” I unwind in the gym and I fall to sleep listening to a meditation cd.

Granted I’ve been over seas for 3+ years where life is easy but when I was home with kids and a wife I still spent quality time with them and in the gym. Did I make sacrifices? Hell yeah. I’d have people tell me all the time that they didn’t have time to go to the gym, but then hear them talking about all kinds of tv shows. Hell I didn’t even buy cable and still don’t. Fucking crazy, lazy, wimpy bastards.

Like I said before, people thought I was huge at 250, always asked if I juiced as if 250 was unattainable. What a freaking joke. I’ll be at 250 and well beyond now that I’m healthy and I am going to go through the same bullshit, but who cares what underachievers think. Let them live miserable non-existent lives. Let them be sheep and cowardly human beings.

People care about different things. Being 250 might be important to you–others might think it’s a silly goal, but you’ve obviously made it a priority.

I don’t like people downplaying my progress and making excuses for themselves anymore than you do, but not everyone who isn’t making bodybuilding their top priority in life is lazy and cowardly, nor do they all lead “non-existant lives.”[/quote]

You are putting words in my mouth. I don’t think people who don’t want to be 250lbs are any of those things. I’m talking about people who say things like, “I could be as big as you, but I don’t have time.”

I’m also talking about people who say, “You must spend hours everyday in the gym or do steroids.” Or “I should/need to lose weight but I don’t have the time.”

And everyone have a friend that was or is my size or a little bit bigger that could so such and such…

284

[quote]Itchy wrote:
I think full-body might be the way to go for an abject beginner who is very weak to begin with. They will gain strength rapidly from session to session without accumulating a lot of fatigue.

I also think they might be useful for those with very demanding schedules who have very little time to train but want to maintain their strength and conditioning levels.

I do not think they are ideal for someone whose number one goal is gaining as much muscle as possible. As for CW’s programs in particular–any program that neglects arm training completely is hard to take seriously.[/quote]

I agree with you fully, see it is a communication thing. You are reading something different than I think I’m writing.

285

[quote]conorh wrote:
Free2Be wrote:
The people in this world plain piss me off X, but this board in particular, they show a total disdain for belief in what can be accomplished.

Most of these people spend at least an hour in front of the television and most much more than that, to “unwind.”

I unwind in the gym and I fall to sleep listening to a meditation cd. Granted I’ve been over seas for 3+ years where life is easy but when I was home with kids and a wife I still spent quality time with them and in the gym. Did I make sacrifices?

Hell yeah. I’d have people tell me all the time that they didn’t have time to go to the gym, but then hear them talking about all kinds of tv shows. Hell I didn’t even buy cable and still don’t. Fucking crazy, lazy, wimpy bastards.

Like I said before, people thought I was huge at 250, always asked if I juiced as if 250 was unattainable. What a freaking joke. I’ll be at 250 and well beyond now that I’m healthy and I am going to go through the same bullshit, but who cares what underachievers think.

Let them live miserable non-existent lives. Let them be sheep and cowardly human beings.

People are fucking pathetic. Like some I know who think it’s ridiculous that we’ll spend 2-3 hours sometimes in the gym, especially when getting ready for a meet. Well, how many movies do they rent per week? How long do they spend in bars drinking beer every weekend?

How much TV do they watch? Why is it okay to spend that time doing something that you like but provides you absolutely no benefit but when we do it to get strong it’s ridiculous?

People have no clue what non-pathetic results they could achieve. I’ve told guys in the gym to their faces that their lifts are terrible and what they should shoot for and been told to fuck off? Why? I’m bad because I told them they’re capable of more than their doing? If I were full of sunshine and bunny tails it would be okay, I guess.

Everyone wants their hands held and accolades they don’t deserve. Only a few people can actually get shit done and those are the ones I want to train, train with and emulate.

/rant
[/quote]

Great post! That same attitude is what I bring to my home, to my work place, to whatever I do basically.

To the guy who thinks pushups and pullups are good for beginners or beginners can’t always do them…that just speaks of the disgusting nature of society as a whole. Fat, lazy and pathetic. Those things used to be what boys had contests for with each other.

They used to be daily gym activities. At anytime in my life if I could not do a pullup I would have felt like a piece of shit. I used to look at the boys who could not do them in grade school like they were alien.

Those boys were always fat, lazy, usually got bad grades too. I never ever let a girl beat me and always wanted to be the best. If I got beat I worked my ass off until I didn’t get beat.

As to not being able to do a single legged dl or a Bulgarian split squat, I could do those easily. When I learned about them and decided I wanted to do them it took me three sessions to master them.

I guess for a very large percentage of the population TBT is good for becoming more athletic and fit, but it is not for getting huge. Being that this forum is about bodybuilding, I’d say getting huge is a priority or should be. What forum does a thread about TBT belong in? I don’t know.

Chad does say he is writing for bodybuilders a lot, talks about getting huge a lot, but he must be talking about “huge” for the general population. Kind of strange if you ask me.

286

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

You do realize that what helps pro bodybuilders get “very big” will be just as effective at helping normal people get “big” and small people get to “normal”, right?

Or do you buy into this mainstream crap spouted by personal trainers who try to convince average people that they should train completely differently from bodybuilders - who are the foremost experts on body recomp - simply because they don’t want to get that big and ripped?

Let me put it this way: If a certain technique helps Ronnie Coleman gain size, it will also help a 150 lb. kid gain size.

And if another technique doesn’t work for Ronnie, the kid is better off not doing it, either.

Your training doesn’t change whether you are trying to gain 5 lbs. of muscle or 50. Chad Waterbury said that first, not me. Somewhat ironical, given the programs he recommends for hypertrophy.

If olympic style lifting wouldn’t be the best way for an IFFB Pro to train, then by extension, it also wouldn’t be the best way for an average guy to train if his primary goal was muscle mass.

Amazing how few people understand this.[/quote]

Full body routines that concentrate the major lifts (think starting strength) tend to do quit well with beginners, but it probably wouldn’t work so well for pros wouldn it?

Also if you consider what steroids can do even for just recovery, not to mention everything else they do, wouldn’t it make sense that most pro’s (assuming they use steroids) can, with them, train in ways that wouldn’t work for beginners?

287

[quote]Free2Be wrote:
Itchy wrote:
I think full-body might be the way to go for an abject beginner who is very weak to begin with. They will gain strength rapidly from session to session without accumulating a lot of fatigue.

I also think they might be useful for those with very demanding schedules who have very little time to train but want to maintain their strength and conditioning levels.

I do not think they are ideal for someone whose number one goal is gaining as much muscle as possible. As for CW’s programs in particular–any program that neglects arm training completely is hard to take seriously.

I agree with you fully, see it is a communication thing. You are reading something different than I think I’m writing.[/quote]

Oh yeah, dude–I absolutely agree the TBT topic. We’re totally on the same page there. But from your post earlier, it seemed like you were kind of putting down people who didn’t deserve it.

Whiny, weak willed, excuse-making pussies aside, there are lots of people who say “I don’t have time to train” or “It’s not the right time” or “I have x going on now and I still have to figure out Y before blah blah blah” and these people are NOT making excuses. They aren’t whiny or weak willed. They simply value other things more than bodybuilding–which is fine.

Alot of people who are successful with bodybuilding like to openly bash those who aren’t, and it’s bullshit.

All that said, I wasn’t trying to call you out personally Free2be.
I think we are on the same page.

288

[quote]Free2Be wrote:

I guess for a very large percentage of the population TBT is good for becoming more athletic and fit, but it is not for getting huge. Being that this forum is about bodybuilding, I’d say getting huge is a priority or should be. What forum does a thread about TBT belong in? I don’t know.

Chad does say he is writing for bodybuilders a lot, talks about getting huge a lot, but he must be talking about “huge” for the general population. Kind of strange if you ask me. [/quote]

This is what I was thinking when I said TBT might be good for the beginner who has almost no strength to speak of and very little awareness of their muscles. It’s very easy to add 5-10 lbs. a week to your bench press if you are starting from 110 lbs.

On the other side of that coin, though, are the people who–though they have never really lifted weights–still posess decent strength as a result of simply being active, playing sports, performing physical work in everyday life. For these people, I think split training will yeild the best results.

289

[quote]Itchy wrote:
Free2Be wrote:
Itchy wrote:
I think full-body might be the way to go for an abject beginner who is very weak to begin with. They will gain strength rapidly from session to session without accumulating a lot of fatigue.

I also think they might be useful for those with very demanding schedules who have very little time to train but want to maintain their strength and conditioning levels.

I do not think they are ideal for someone whose number one goal is gaining as much muscle as possible. As for CW’s programs in particular–any program that neglects arm training completely is hard to take seriously.

I agree with you fully, see it is a communication thing. You are reading something different than I think I’m writing.

Oh yeah, dude–I absolutely agree the TBT topic. We’re totally on the same page there. But from your post earlier, it seemed like you were kind of putting down people who didn’t deserve it.

Whiny, weak willed, excuse-making pussies aside, there are lots of people who say “I don’t have time to train” or “It’s not the right time” or “I have x going on now and I still have to figure out Y before blah blah blah” and these people are NOT making excuses. They aren’t whiny or weak willed. They simply value other things more than bodybuilding–which is fine.

Alot of people who are successful with bodybuilding like to openly bash those who aren’t, and it’s bullshit.

All that said, I wasn’t trying to call you out personally Free2be.
I think we are on the same page.
[/quote]

There was a time in my life when I did not got to bed until at least 9pm and usually 11pm because I worked full time and went to school. I would then wake up at 3:30am to go to the gym. Do you know many people that are so committed to anything to that extent? To me, if you slept it is an excuse. I also had 3 kids at the time…still do.

I was once married to a Marine. The former wife didn’t complete a task, and she said, “I didn’t have time.” To her SSgt, to which he replied, “Did you sleep last night?” She didn’t get it, I did. I was not a Marine, but I found out that my life has more closely aligned to Marine Corps values than most Marines lives do. I was one of those pussy assed Airmen btw. :slight_smile:

290

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Free2Be wrote:
It all depends on your goals for sure, but not really too good for bodybuilding. Like getting very big.

You do realize that what helps pro bodybuilders get “very big” will be just as effective at helping normal people get “big” and small people get to “normal”, right?

Or do you buy into this mainstream crap spouted by personal trainers who try to convince average people that they should train completely differently from bodybuilders - who are the foremost experts on body recomp - simply because they don’t want to get that big and ripped?

Let me put it this way: If a certain technique helps Ronnie Coleman gain size, it will also help a 150 lb. kid gain size.

And if another technique doesn’t work for Ronnie, the kid is better off not doing it, either.

Your training doesn’t change whether you are trying to gain 5 lbs. of muscle or 50. Chad Waterbury said that first, not me. Somewhat ironical, given the programs he recommends for hypertrophy.

If olympic style lifting wouldn’t be the best way for an IFFB Pro to train, then by extension, it also wouldn’t be the best way for an average guy to train if his primary goal was muscle mass.

Amazing how few people understand this.

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I am saying that TBT won’t make the general population very big.

291

[quote]Itchy wrote:

Whiny, weak willed, excuse-making pussies aside, there are lots of people who say “I don’t have time to train” or “It’s not the right time” or “I have x going on now and I still have to figure out Y before blah blah blah” and these people are NOT making excuses. They aren’t whiny or weak willed. They simply value other things more than bodybuilding–which is fine.

[/quote]

Gee, they are whiny and weak willed if they have a goal of making progress but avoid prioritizing it. The only way they aren’t is if they don’t have a goal of making progress…which would beg the question of why the fuck they are in the gym or on this web site.

Your post here isn’t even making sense. Do you think the rest of us ONLY have bodybuilding as a goal in life? Did you write this thinking everyone else dropped out of high school and now only lives for the next workout?

292

Reinventing yourself for acceptance by the vocal majority, kamerad?

293

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Itchy wrote:

Whiny, weak willed, excuse-making pussies aside, there are lots of people who say “I don’t have time to train” or “It’s not the right time” or “I have x going on now and I still have to figure out Y before blah blah blah” and these people are NOT making excuses. They aren’t whiny or weak willed. They simply value other things more than bodybuilding–which is fine.

Gee, they are whiny and weak willed if they have a goal of making progress but avoid prioritizing it. The only way they aren’t is if they don’t have a goal of making progress…which would beg the question of why the fuck they are in the gym or on this web site.

Your post here isn’t even making sense. Do you think the rest of us ONLY have bodybuilding as a goal in life? Did you write this thinking everyone else dropped out of high school and now only lives for the next workout?[/quote]

No shit they are whiny and weak willed IF they have a goal of making progress but don’t prioritize it. Isn’t that kind of a given? These are the annoying-ass people who come on here asking a bunch of dumbass questions about what supplements they can take or what new workout they should try because they have been stuck at 165 for 3 months.

Bash these fuckwads all ya want. All I was saying is that not everyone who doesn’t train to be as huge as possible is a whiny pussy, as many on this site suggest. Some people actually have different priorities. Is that so hard to understand?

And no, I don’t think the rest of YOU only have bodybuilding as a goal, or that you’re success isn’t the result of work and sacrifice. I’m not one of your skinny-fat fanboys mucking up the bodybuilding forum with the same dumbass questions over and over and then ignoring the answers, dude. Chill.

294

[quote]Itchy wrote:
No shit they are whiny and weak willed IF they have a goal of making progress but don’t prioritize it. Isn’t that kind of a given? These are the annoying-ass people who come on here asking a bunch of dumbass questions about what supplements they can take or what new workout they should try because they have been stuck at 165 for 3 months.

Bash these fuckwads all ya want. All I was saying is that not everyone who doesn’t train to be as huge as possible is a whiny pussy, as many on this site suggest. Some people actually have different priorities. Is that so hard to understand?[/quote]

That usually makes them the average weekend warrior, who as we can see in this thread, holds ideas in their head that their “real world” is why they can’t gain more muscle or denote any more time to it. No one is saying all people should have the same goals. However, it is like some of you conveniently skip right over the insults (as passive aggressive as they may be) coming from those who declare that big muscles make you “UN-functional”.

I don’t care about the goals of the two guys in THIS thread who did just that. But if they come here making statements like that, it does become a question of whether they are just taking up space while making it seem like their action is noble because of their “realness”.

I don’t need or want “fanboys”. I do wonder why some of you act like anyone who agrees with me is sucking me off behind the computer screen.

I understand your point completely. Do you finally understand mine?

295

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Itchy wrote:
No shit they are whiny and weak willed IF they have a goal of making progress but don’t prioritize it. Isn’t that kind of a given? These are the annoying-ass people who come on here asking a bunch of dumbass questions about what supplements they can take or what new workout they should try because they have been stuck at 165 for 3 months.

Bash these fuckwads all ya want. All I was saying is that not everyone who doesn’t train to be as huge as possible is a whiny pussy, as many on this site suggest. Some people actually have different priorities. Is that so hard to understand?

That usually makes them the average weekend warrior, who as we can see in this thread, holds ideas in their head that their “real world” is why they can’t gain more muscle or denote any more time to it. No one is saying all people should have the same goals. However, it is like some of you conveniently skip right over the insults (as passive aggressive as they may be) coming from those who declare that big muscles make you “UN-functional”.

I don’t care about the goals of the two guys in THIS thread who did just that. But if they come here making statements like that, it does become a question of whether they are just taking up space while making it seem like their action is noble because of their “realness”.

And no, I don’t think the rest of YOU only have bodybuilding as a goal, or that you’re success isn’t the result of work and sacrifice. I’m not one of your skinny-fat fanboys mucking up the bodybuilding forum with the same dumbass questions over and over and then ignoring the answers, dude. Chill.

I don’t need or want “fanboys”. I do wonder why some of you act like anyone who agrees with me is sucking me off behind the computer screen.

I understand your point completely. Do you finally understand mine?

[/quote]

I gotcha, buddy. LOL @ “sucking me off behind the computer screen”. When I said your fanboys, I meant I’m not one CW’s fanboys. I said “your fanboys” because I see you using the phrase alot to describe these people who swear by these programs yet have no results to show.

Anyway, I agree with with almost everything I see you write regarding training. My point, like you said, is that not everyone has the same goals and there’s no reason to put people down because their goals aren’t yours (in response specifically to Free2be’s post).

I also get tired of people who act like I must not have a full time job or responsibilities or any sort of life just because I have a decent physique.

296

I don’t understand it when people say they train fullbody because of time constraints. Personally, when I used to train fullbody (especially programs like bill starr’s 5x5) they would last longer than my bodypart split workouts do now. I would think that training your entire body in one workout would take significantly longer than training just 1-2 bodyparts a session (and not with crazy volume either).

297

[quote]Der Candy wrote:
I don’t understand it when people say they train fullbody because of time constraints. Personally, when I used to train fullbody (especially programs like bill starr’s 5x5) they would last longer than my bodypart split workouts do now. I would think that training your entire body in one workout would take significantly longer than training just 1-2 bodyparts a session (and not with crazy volume either).[/quote]

i think they are referring to the frequency they go to the gym. total body workouts are indeed longer then a split but you only need to go 3 times a week. while most split routines have you going to the gym 4-6 times a week. just a thought.

298

Itchy

You’re a good dude.

299

[quote]Free2Be wrote:
Itchy

You’re a good dude.[/quote]

That’s what I hear. I keep trying to convince people otherwise, but they just won’e have it.

300

[quote]Clifford wrote:
Der Candy wrote:
I don’t understand it when people say they train fullbody because of time constraints. Personally, when I used to train fullbody (especially programs like bill starr’s 5x5) they would last longer than my bodypart split workouts do now. I would think that training your entire body in one workout would take significantly longer than training just 1-2 bodyparts a session (and not with crazy volume either).

i think they are referring to the frequency they go to the gym. total body workouts are indeed longer then a split but you only need to go 3 times a week. while most split routines have you going to the gym 4-6 times a week. just a thought.[/quote]

Yes.

Personally, I’d rather be lifting more frequently, for less time each session, while only having to focus on killing the bloody shit out of a small part of my body and then getting the fuck out of there.