[quote]leaftye wrote:
angus_beef wrote:
lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy.
That’s exactly what has been done.[/quote]
Evolution allows a woman to lactate for as long as there is a demand for the milk, I know women who have breast fed for up to four years.
As for milk, when I need it I just go out and squeeze it out of one of my goats, much better than cow’s milk.
[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.
Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.
My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.
Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.
Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.
Well, in the realm of bodybuilding, I don’t think we would be drinking milk on its own. It would definitely be with something else most likely, but definitely not fat I’d hope. As long as the milk goes along with only protein and the milk is skim, then it’s BETTER, but definitely not the BEST. Soy has a lot of benefits, but it also has estrogenic effects, so screw that. haha We are T-Men and T-Vixens, after all! We have to hold ourselves to higher standards than the rest of the pitiful population that almost always settles for crap food, then occasionally some food that’s, again, BETTER for you, but definitely not the BEST. 
And as for the choice between a burger or a few slices of pizza, I might actually go with the pizza because what if it’s chicken pizza? It’s gonna have a lot less fat than the burger and just as much protein especially when you add in the cheese so it’s more like a protein/carb meal instead of a protein/fat/carb meal which doesn’t sit too well with me. Both choices would usually contain breads made with white flour anyway although pizza also has a crap-ton of sauce. And this is why we avoid these situations in the first place and carry portable alternatives. I often find myself carrying a casein/whey protein shake with just dry powder at the bottom along with some flax seeds, olive oil and coconut oil just chilling at the bottom as well and mix it with water wherever I am whether it be a party or whatever.
Soy has not been proven to have estrogenic effects. Processed soy isn’t the best stuff to eat but that’s different that eating soy beans or drinking organic soy milk.
And even Poliquin doesn’t support the whole ‘no fat with carbs’ thing anymore.
Why doesn’t Charles support the separation of carbs and fats anymore? Just out of ignorance, I thought I’d ask. And as for the studies questioning, I have researched. I’ve found studies that support both sides of the soy case. I just decided to stay away from soy.[/quote]
Because it’s a crock of bullshit that makes no sense.
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.
[quote]Lurker27 wrote:
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.[/quote]
True, but when fat is floating around the blood stream in the presence of insulin, this will have a much higher chance of getting stored.
[quote]Nicky_Boy28 wrote:
Speaking of which…whats up with JB. We haven’t heard of him since Shugs wrote an article on hiim turning veggetarian. Actually a lot of my favorite writers haven’t shown up in a while. David Barr, John Berardi…fortunately Dr. Lowery’s back but then again he hasn’t published anything recently here.
I’d definately like to here Jonny Bowden’s take on all this. [/quote]
i was thinking of this the other day. i wanna read another Berardi article, hes one of the best
[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
Lurker27 wrote:
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.
True, but when fat is floating around the blood stream in the presence of insulin, this will have a much higher chance of getting stored.[/quote]
Look
If you eat like a bodybuilder or a powerlifter whatever (anyone looking to add muscle) you will have all three macronutrients in your blood stream at all times. People looking to gain mass are not on keto diets and shouldn’t be on low fat diets (for the sake of their T levels).
Digestion and absorbtion is much more complicated than just what you eat at during one meal.
The insulin spike from carbs is a valid point and it is not wise to have random insulin spikes throughout the day. The problem doesn’t arise from eating fat in the same meal as the carbs. “No fat + carbs” is too simplistic.
[quote]Lurker27 wrote:
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.[/quote]
Care to reference that?
All the research I’ve seen has shown that fat has very little, if any, effect on insulin.
Now, carb + protein is a different story.
Adding anything to your carbs (fat, protein, even fibre) will usually blunt the insulin spike if I remember anything about glycemic loads.
I used to love milk, and I still think it tastes good, but nothing beats a glass of ice cold water.
[quote]leaftye wrote:
angus_beef wrote:
lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy.
That’s exactly what has been done.[/quote]
Really ?.. I’m not just talking about a couple drops from their nipples…Am talking about quantities to what is similar during pregnancy.
BONEZ…yea i did specify soy milk. The article i read was addressing soy milk. I don’t know if this applies to all soy products but i doubt there would be a significant difference. I will try to find the article, but this was a while back.
Lurker, thanks for the comment.
I have read that soy lowers sperm counts, does that lower T-levels? Perhaps.
I do not drink milk. The way I look at it, milk provides a lot of protein. Which is great, if you eat the standard three meals a day. Although, if you’re taking in 1-1.25g per pound of bodyweight each day from whole foods and whey protein – Why even bother drinking milk?
The cons outweight the pros in my opinion. Just my two cents.
[quote]angus_beef wrote:
elano wrote:
Milk is the perfect food for growing mammals, and you sir are a growing mammal.
Squats and milk.
lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy. All you guys advocating GOMAD makes me wonder do you really know the effects of what you’re putting into your body or are you just doing this because it “works”.
BONEZ…It has been proven that soy milk increases estrogen levels.[/quote]
If we were supposed to eat meat… would it cook itself? No other species cooks its food, right?
Isn’t whey derived from milk? If the study were true, then the whey protein we are consuming decreases T ?
[quote]msd0060 wrote:
angus_beef wrote:
elano wrote:
Milk is the perfect food for growing mammals, and you sir are a growing mammal.
Squats and milk.
lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy. All you guys advocating GOMAD makes me wonder do you really know the effects of what you’re putting into your body or are you just doing this because it “works”.
BONEZ…It has been proven that soy milk increases estrogen levels.
If we were supposed to eat meat… would it cook itself? No other species cooks its food, right?[/quote]
lololol…WTF are you talking about?.. You could eat raw meet if that makes you feel better. Preparation and consumption are 2 different things. People like their steaks rare and i prefer mine medium plus…
elano said milk is the perfect food for growing animals so i simple stated if it was the perfect food why is it that women stop producing milk?.. If it was so great evolution would allow women to produce milk infinitely to provide a continuous supply of the perfect food.
It might be the perfect food for babies, but that;s only because antibodies and other good stuff is passed on from the mother to the baby. When we are old enough to eat nutritious food there is no need to drink milk.
I just don’t believe all the hype. I drink chocolate milk for the flavor, not the nutrition value.
[quote]angus_beef wrote:
msd0060 wrote:
angus_beef wrote:
elano wrote:
Milk is the perfect food for growing mammals, and you sir are a growing mammal.
Squats and milk.
lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy. All you guys advocating GOMAD makes me wonder do you really know the effects of what you’re putting into your body or are you just doing this because it “works”.
BONEZ…It has been proven that soy milk increases estrogen levels.
If we were supposed to eat meat… would it cook itself? No other species cooks its food, right?
lololol…WTF are you talking about?.. You could eat raw meet if that makes you feel better. Preparation and consumption are 2 different things. People like their steaks rare and i prefer mine medium plus…
elano said milk is the perfect food for growing animals so i simple stated if it was the perfect food why is it that women stop producing milk?.. If it was so great evolution would allow women to produce milk infinitely to provide a continuous supply of the perfect food.
It might be the perfect food for babies, but that;s only because antibodies and other good stuff is passed on from the mother to the baby. When we are old enough to eat nutritious food there is no need to drink milk.
I just don’t believe all the hype. I drink chocolate milk for the flavor, not the nutrition value.[/quote]
You sound dainty.
Are you big and strong or are you just another faceless poster that talks about stuff?
[quote]angus_beef wrote:
leaftye wrote:
angus_beef wrote:
lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy.
That’s exactly what has been done.
Really ?.. I’m not just talking about a couple drops from their nipples…Am talking about quantities to what is similar during pregnancy.
BONEZ…yea i did specify soy milk. The article i read was addressing soy milk. I don’t know if this applies to all soy products but i doubt there would be a significant difference. I will try to find the article, but this was a while back.[/quote]
Do you know what “pregnancy” means? Not calling you stupid. Maybe you live in some other country other than America where pregnancy means something different than it means here. The way you use that word makes utterly no sense in this country. If you were born and raised in America, then yeah, I guess I am calling you stupid, at least as to the definition of this word.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
Lurker27 wrote:
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.
True, but when fat is floating around the blood stream in the presence of insulin, this will have a much higher chance of getting stored.
Look
If you eat like a bodybuilder or a powerlifter whatever (anyone looking to add muscle) you will have all three macronutrients in your blood stream at all times. People looking to gain mass are not on keto diets and shouldn’t be on low fat diets (for the sake of their T levels).
Digestion and absorbtion is much more complicated than just what you eat at during one meal.
The insulin spike from carbs is a valid point and it is not wise to have random insulin spikes throughout the day. The problem doesn’t arise from eating fat in the same meal as the carbs. “No fat + carbs” is too simplistic. [/quote]
When did I ever talk about keto or low fat diets? We’re talking about “when” here, not “how much.”
Anyhow, studies have shown that meals containing both carbs and proteins are beneficial for promoting an anabolic environment. Fats also can be beneficial to proteins in that they can slow down their absorption rates, and thus can promote anabolism via a different mechanism. Now, when fats are present in the bloodstream during hyperinsulinemia, it will delay the clearing of glucose from the bloodstream which will then cause the body to produce more insulin for a longer period of time due to the inhibitory effects of the lipids which could, in long term effects of consuming such a diet where carbs+fats are mixed in large quantities consistenly, reduce insulin sensitivity because of the body exhibiting a more sustained level of higher insulin. Also, the body will actually make the body oxidize more lipids than glucose, and, thus, delay and decrease the amount of glucose used in muscle-glycogen storage.
If fat + carb meals produce effects where it messes with glycogen storage and short insulin spikes (of which I use carbs for both), then I would see it as beneficial to separate them from each other in order to reduce the amount of lipids in the blood while insulin is higher.
[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
Lurker27 wrote:
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.
True, but when fat is floating around the blood stream in the presence of insulin, this will have a much higher chance of getting stored.
Look
If you eat like a bodybuilder or a powerlifter whatever (anyone looking to add muscle) you will have all three macronutrients in your blood stream at all times. People looking to gain mass are not on keto diets and shouldn’t be on low fat diets (for the sake of their T levels).
Digestion and absorbtion is much more complicated than just what you eat at during one meal.
The insulin spike from carbs is a valid point and it is not wise to have random insulin spikes throughout the day. The problem doesn’t arise from eating fat in the same meal as the carbs. “No fat + carbs” is too simplistic.
When did I ever talk about keto or low fat diets? We’re talking about “when” here, not “how much.”
Anyhow, studies have shown that meals containing both carbs and proteins are beneficial for promoting an anabolic environment. Fats also can be beneficial to proteins in that they can slow down their absorption rates, and thus can promote anabolism via a different mechanism. Now, when fats are present in the bloodstream during hyperinsulinemia, it will delay the clearing of glucose from the bloodstream which will then cause the body to produce more insulin for a longer period of time due to the inhibitory effects of the lipids which could, in long term effects of consuming such a diet where carbs+fats are mixed in large quantities consistenly, reduce insulin sensitivity because of the body exhibiting a more sustained level of higher insulin. Also, the body will actually make the body oxidize more lipids than glucose, and, thus, delay and decrease the amount of glucose used in muscle-glycogen storage.
If fat + carb meals produce effects where it messes with glycogen storage and short insulin spikes (of which I use carbs for both), then I would see it as beneficial to separate them from each other in order to reduce the amount of lipids in the blood while insulin is higher.
[/quote]
I brought up keto and low fat diets as examples of the ONLY time when specific macros are found in low concentrations in the blood for extended lengths of time. If someone is eating a ‘normal’ diet whether it be 33/33/33 or 40/40/20 or something similar all three macros will be in the blood throughout the day regardless of how you choose to split up your meals. Eating fat only with protein wont reduce the amount of it in the blood. When you eventually eat those carbs some of the fat will still be there. This stuff is more complicated than you or I is giving credit for. Digestion and absorbtion takes a while and doesnt occur nice and smoothly. Its complicated but it is simple also enough in that I can 100% guarantee that if you ate 40-50% protein and the rest came from fat and carbs and you only the fat and carbs together you’d still lose weight if you were in a caloric defecit.
None of what I’ve written applies to peri workout nutrition.
And I don’t feel like talking about this anymore. So let me get back to my krispy kreme donuts and deep fried twinkies
edited
People need to stop fearing milk and looking for justifications of why they’re not growing.
“Oh, must’ve been the milk!” I drink in an excess of one gallon a day; yet I have no trouble gaining muscle.
tl;dr Milk is great, stop being pussies.
[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
Lurker27 wrote:
Carbs + Fat produces a greater insulin response than carbs alone…I assume that is why.
True, but when fat is floating around the blood stream in the presence of insulin, this will have a much higher chance of getting stored.
Look
If you eat like a bodybuilder or a powerlifter whatever (anyone looking to add muscle) you will have all three macronutrients in your blood stream at all times. People looking to gain mass are not on keto diets and shouldn’t be on low fat diets (for the sake of their T levels).
Digestion and absorbtion is much more complicated than just what you eat at during one meal.
The insulin spike from carbs is a valid point and it is not wise to have random insulin spikes throughout the day. The problem doesn’t arise from eating fat in the same meal as the carbs. “No fat + carbs” is too simplistic.
When did I ever talk about keto or low fat diets? We’re talking about “when” here, not “how much.”
Anyhow, studies have shown that meals containing both carbs and proteins are beneficial for promoting an anabolic environment. Fats also can be beneficial to proteins in that they can slow down their absorption rates, and thus can promote anabolism via a different mechanism. Now, when fats are present in the bloodstream during hyperinsulinemia, it will delay the clearing of glucose from the bloodstream which will then cause the body to produce more insulin for a longer period of time due to the inhibitory effects of the lipids which could, in long term effects of consuming such a diet where carbs+fats are mixed in large quantities consistenly, reduce insulin sensitivity because of the body exhibiting a more sustained level of higher insulin. Also, the body will actually make the body oxidize more lipids than glucose, and, thus, delay and decrease the amount of glucose used in muscle-glycogen storage.
If fat + carb meals produce effects where it messes with glycogen storage and short insulin spikes (of which I use carbs for both), then I would see it as beneficial to separate them from each other in order to reduce the amount of lipids in the blood while insulin is higher.
[/quote]
Basing your meal’s macronutrient ratio on insulin release is too simplistic and not really looking at the big picture. Even JB who was a proponent of P+C and P+F meals is starting to move away from the believe as well, or so I heard. Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with having a P+F and P+C meals but there’s nothing wrong with having mixed meals either.
I myself like P+F and P+C meal plans especially during dieting because by eliminating almost an entire macronutrient in a meal, I’ll automatically eat less calories, not because I’m trying to avoid eating fat while having an insulin surge.