Milk Lowers Test

Nutrition
21

I would have access to the article through my university but:

[Epub ahead of print] This is an Accepted Article that has been peer-reviewed and approved for publication in the Pediatrics International, but has yet to undergo copy-editing and proof correction.

i.e. it’s not printed yet.

But this research isn’t even breaking news:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN2-456JR50-2N&_user=10&_coverDate=10%2F31%2F2001&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9d808f64bd014d7b0cc5dfab3c73c173

I don’t know if you can access that but here’s the abstract:
Abstract

The role of environmental compounds with estrogenic activity in the development of male reproductive disorders has been a source of great concern. Among the routes of human exposure to estrogens, we are particularly concerned about cows’ milk, which contains considerable amounts of estrogens. The major sources of animal-derived estrogens in the human diet are milk and dairy products, which account for 60â??70% of the estrogens consumed. Humans consume milk obtained from heifers in the latter half of pregnancy, when the estrogen levels in cows are markedly elevated. The milk that we now consume may be quite unlike that consumed 100 years ago. Modern genetically-improved dairy cows, such as the Holstein, are usually fed a combination of grass and concentrates (grain/protein mixes and various by-products), allowing them to lactate during the latter half of pregnancy, even at 220 days of gestation. We hypothesize that milk is responsible, at least in part, for some male reproductive disorders.

And
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN2-4B3NM7X-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b8abd35dea160fc6c446cfff5a35042b

Abstract

Studies to elucidate the cause of prostate cancer have met with little success to date. Epidemiological studies suggested that milk consumption is probably as one of the risk factors for prostate cancer. The studies thus focused on the fat and calcium in milk, but reached no definitive conclusion. According to the measurements of estrogen levels in milk by different studies, it was suggested that estrogen in milk was a possible risk to cause prostate cancer. One reason supporting this hypothesis is that Western diet (characterized by milk/dairy products and meat) causes a trend of increasing levels of estrogens, and Western males show a higher incidence rate of prostate cancer than Asia males. Estrogen levels in prostate fluid are also correlated very well with the prostate cancer. During several decades, estrogens, together with testosterone, was commonly used to induce the rodent model of prostate cancer. Our hypothesis also was supported by the presence of estrogen receptors in the prostate gland and the genotoxic role of estrogens on the prostate gland, as possible mechanisms. Therefore, if modern milk consumption does expose consumers to high levels of estrogen and plays an adverse role in prostate cancer, action should be taken to produce the noncontaminant milk.

22

[quote]Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
JB does not eat meat anymore?![/quote]

He did a short trial run as one, but is back to consuming AFAIK.

I did see him suggesting another protein product now instead of MD, this was just in one newsletter though

23

My motto is: A gallon a day keeps the skinny kids away.

I guess I better stop drinking it though, I haven’t developed any muscles at all.

24

I haven’t drank milk in a long time. Anyone have any opinions about cheese and such? Having trouble getting the lady to understand that deal with milk, especially with the kids. I never give it to them.

25

I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

26

I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

27

I often agree with “not sweating the small stuff”, ESPECIALLY if the BIG STUFF like eating enough damn protein and calories to grow isn’t in line.

Americans need to drink more WATER, not milk. Get the calcium from vegetables, the vitamin D from the sun, and the protein and calories from meat, preferably grass fed meat.

28

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen. [/quote]

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

29

[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.[/quote]

Well said.

30

[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.[/quote]

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.

31

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.
[/quote]

I concur. Milk > soda / pasteurized juice. Fast-food burger > pizza. Not the best choices overall but better than certain alternatives.

Personally I’ve resigned from all liquids in the last month except water and the occasional beer for social fun. It’s cheaper. It helps me get within my 1-2 gallons of water per day goal. I avoid all the excess crap from other processed liquids, and I don’t consume unnecessary sugars. A cup of iced coffee (black) in the morning and protein shakes throughout the day satisfy my needs for liquid variety.

On a side note, I accidentally forgot a chocolate protein shake in the freezer last night (after the water was too warm initially) and when I remembered to take it out the shake had turned into a delicious ice ‘milk’. Muy bueno!

32

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.
[/quote]

Well, in the realm of bodybuilding, I don’t think we would be drinking milk on its own. It would definitely be with something else most likely, but definitely not fat I’d hope. As long as the milk goes along with only protein and the milk is skim, then it’s BETTER, but definitely not the BEST. Soy has a lot of benefits, but it also has estrogenic effects, so screw that. haha We are T-Men and T-Vixens, after all! We have to hold ourselves to higher standards than the rest of the pitiful population that almost always settles for crap food, then occasionally some food that’s, again, BETTER for you, but definitely not the BEST. :slight_smile:

And as for the choice between a burger or a few slices of pizza, I might actually go with the pizza because what if it’s chicken pizza? It’s gonna have a lot less fat than the burger and just as much protein especially when you add in the cheese so it’s more like a protein/carb meal instead of a protein/fat/carb meal which doesn’t sit too well with me. Both choices would usually contain breads made with white flour anyway although pizza also has a crap-ton of sauce. And this is why we avoid these situations in the first place and carry portable alternatives. I often find myself carrying a casein/whey protein shake with just dry powder at the bottom along with some flax seeds, olive oil and coconut oil just chilling at the bottom as well and mix it with water wherever I am whether it be a party or whatever.

33

[quote]kylec72 wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.

I concur. Milk > soda / pasteurized juice. Fast-food burger > pizza. Not the best choices overall but better than certain alternatives.

Personally I’ve resigned from all liquids in the last month except water and the occasional beer for social fun. It’s cheaper. It helps me get within my 1-2 gallons of water per day goal. I avoid all the excess crap from other processed liquids, and I don’t consume unnecessary sugars. A cup of iced coffee (black) in the morning and protein shakes throughout the day satisfy my needs for liquid variety.

On a side note, I accidentally forgot a chocolate protein shake in the freezer last night (after the water was too warm initially) and when I remembered to take it out the shake had turned into a delicious ice ‘milk’. Muy bueno![/quote]

Are you serious? The protein wasn’t rancid? My the empty protein shake container that I take to my workouts starts to smell bad and rancid after a few hours. Maybe the freezing saved it?

34

[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
kylec72 wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.

I concur. Milk > soda / pasteurized juice. Fast-food burger > pizza. Not the best choices overall but better than certain alternatives.

Personally I’ve resigned from all liquids in the last month except water and the occasional beer for social fun. It’s cheaper. It helps me get within my 1-2 gallons of water per day goal. I avoid all the excess crap from other processed liquids, and I don’t consume unnecessary sugars. A cup of iced coffee (black) in the morning and protein shakes throughout the day satisfy my needs for liquid variety.

On a side note, I accidentally forgot a chocolate protein shake in the freezer last night (after the water was too warm initially) and when I remembered to take it out the shake had turned into a delicious ice ‘milk’. Muy bueno!

Are you serious? The protein wasn’t rancid? My the empty protein shake container that I take to my workouts starts to smell bad and rancid after a few hours. Maybe the freezing saved it?[/quote]

Why would protein go rancid in the refrigerator? Especially after only one night.

35

[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.

Well, in the realm of bodybuilding, I don’t think we would be drinking milk on its own. It would definitely be with something else most likely, but definitely not fat I’d hope. As long as the milk goes along with only protein and the milk is skim, then it’s BETTER, but definitely not the BEST. Soy has a lot of benefits, but it also has estrogenic effects, so screw that. haha We are T-Men and T-Vixens, after all! We have to hold ourselves to higher standards than the rest of the pitiful population that almost always settles for crap food, then occasionally some food that’s, again, BETTER for you, but definitely not the BEST. :slight_smile:

And as for the choice between a burger or a few slices of pizza, I might actually go with the pizza because what if it’s chicken pizza? It’s gonna have a lot less fat than the burger and just as much protein especially when you add in the cheese so it’s more like a protein/carb meal instead of a protein/fat/carb meal which doesn’t sit too well with me. Both choices would usually contain breads made with white flour anyway although pizza also has a crap-ton of sauce. And this is why we avoid these situations in the first place and carry portable alternatives. I often find myself carrying a casein/whey protein shake with just dry powder at the bottom along with some flax seeds, olive oil and coconut oil just chilling at the bottom as well and mix it with water wherever I am whether it be a party or whatever.[/quote]

Soy has not been proven to have estrogenic effects. Processed soy isn’t the best stuff to eat but that’s different that eating soy beans or drinking organic soy milk.

And even Berardi doesn’t support the whole ‘no fat with carbs’ thing anymore.

edit
I confused the names

36

[quote]elano wrote:
Milk is the perfect food for growing mammals, and you sir are a growing mammal.

Squats and milk.[/quote]

lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy. All you guys advocating GOMAD makes me wonder do you really know the effects of what you’re putting into your body or are you just doing this because it “works”.

BONEZ…It has been proven that soy milk increases estrogen levels.

37

[quote]angus_beef wrote:
elano wrote:
Milk is the perfect food for growing mammals, and you sir are a growing mammal.

Squats and milk.

lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy. All you guys advocating GOMAD makes me wonder do you really know the effects of what you’re putting into your body or are you just doing this because it “works”.

BONEZ…It has been proven that soy milk increases estrogen levels.[/quote]

Can you show me where? I’d like to see.

I distinctly remember seeing studies done showing that isn’t the case.

I don’t eat the stuff but some people enjoy it and it’s a good source of protein IMO.

EDIT I see you said soy milk. Are you talking about soy milk only?

38

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.

Well, in the realm of bodybuilding, I don’t think we would be drinking milk on its own. It would definitely be with something else most likely, but definitely not fat I’d hope. As long as the milk goes along with only protein and the milk is skim, then it’s BETTER, but definitely not the BEST. Soy has a lot of benefits, but it also has estrogenic effects, so screw that. haha We are T-Men and T-Vixens, after all! We have to hold ourselves to higher standards than the rest of the pitiful population that almost always settles for crap food, then occasionally some food that’s, again, BETTER for you, but definitely not the BEST. :slight_smile:

And as for the choice between a burger or a few slices of pizza, I might actually go with the pizza because what if it’s chicken pizza? It’s gonna have a lot less fat than the burger and just as much protein especially when you add in the cheese so it’s more like a protein/carb meal instead of a protein/fat/carb meal which doesn’t sit too well with me. Both choices would usually contain breads made with white flour anyway although pizza also has a crap-ton of sauce. And this is why we avoid these situations in the first place and carry portable alternatives. I often find myself carrying a casein/whey protein shake with just dry powder at the bottom along with some flax seeds, olive oil and coconut oil just chilling at the bottom as well and mix it with water wherever I am whether it be a party or whatever.

Soy has not been proven to have estrogenic effects. Processed soy isn’t the best stuff to eat but that’s different that eating soy beans or drinking organic soy milk.

And even Poliquin doesn’t support the whole ‘no fat with carbs’ thing anymore.
[/quote]

Why doesn’t Charles support the separation of carbs and fats anymore? Just out of ignorance, I thought I’d ask. And as for the studies questioning, I have researched. I’ve found studies that support both sides of the soy case. I just decided to stay away from soy.

39

[quote]angus_beef wrote:

lol… I think if we mammals were meant to drink milk throughout our lives, evolution would allow woman to produce milk beyond pregnancy.[/quote]

That’s exactly what has been done.

40

[quote]guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
guitarlifter wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
I think some people make too big of a deal about things like this. This is America. Not everyone can live near a farm. Drinking milk that comes from a supermarket is not the worst thing to do. There are so many worse things people consume than processed milk.

Enviornmental hormones are everywhere. You aren’t going to die from drinking out of a plastic cup or from eating McDonalds a few times a year.

My point is that Americans, as a population, need to drink more milk and less juice and soda (and beer hahahah jk ← blasphemy). More people are getting messed up from diabetes and hear disease from being overweight than people getting messed up from enviornmental sources of estrogen.

Actually, milk spikes your insulin pretty high just like any other crap food out there which can lead to type 2 diabetes and being overweight. I don’t just try to eat the foods that are better for you than the crap foods. I personally think that milk is one of those foods that do have a lot of positives, but also a lot of negatives. I try to eat the best foods that have the most benefits and no known negatives when consumed in reasonable quantities.

Fair enough. Of course eating more of the best foods is more favorable than just eating more of the ‘better’ foods. I didn’t mean to imply that I think people should replace all of their soda and juice intake completely with milk. But if you give me a choice between milk or soda I know what I am choosing. The difference between milk and other insulin spiking crap foods is the protein content. If someone is overweight to begin with an insulin spike is a bad thing, agreed. But still the insulin spike from milk will deliver protein to where it’s needed. Soda and juice will just store excess carbs. This is also why I’ll always take a fast food burger over a few slices of pizza if those are the only choices.

Well, in the realm of bodybuilding, I don’t think we would be drinking milk on its own. It would definitely be with something else most likely, but definitely not fat I’d hope. As long as the milk goes along with only protein and the milk is skim, then it’s BETTER, but definitely not the BEST. Soy has a lot of benefits, but it also has estrogenic effects, so screw that. haha We are T-Men and T-Vixens, after all! We have to hold ourselves to higher standards than the rest of the pitiful population that almost always settles for crap food, then occasionally some food that’s, again, BETTER for you, but definitely not the BEST. :slight_smile:

And as for the choice between a burger or a few slices of pizza, I might actually go with the pizza because what if it’s chicken pizza? It’s gonna have a lot less fat than the burger and just as much protein especially when you add in the cheese so it’s more like a protein/carb meal instead of a protein/fat/carb meal which doesn’t sit too well with me. Both choices would usually contain breads made with white flour anyway although pizza also has a crap-ton of sauce. And this is why we avoid these situations in the first place and carry portable alternatives. I often find myself carrying a casein/whey protein shake with just dry powder at the bottom along with some flax seeds, olive oil and coconut oil just chilling at the bottom as well and mix it with water wherever I am whether it be a party or whatever.

Soy has not been proven to have estrogenic effects. Processed soy isn’t the best stuff to eat but that’s different that eating soy beans or drinking organic soy milk.

And even Poliquin doesn’t support the whole ‘no fat with carbs’ thing anymore.

Why doesn’t Charles support the separation of carbs and fats anymore? Just out of ignorance, I thought I’d ask. And as for the studies questioning, I have researched. I’ve found studies that support both sides of the soy case. I just decided to stay away from soy.[/quote]

I don’t remember the specifics. Maybe someone here does.