Jeff Willet and Steroids

Training Bodybuilding
101

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.

Jeff Willet:

Height: 5’8

Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs
[/quote]

Looks like Christian Bale is ready for the next Batman flick.

He kinda reminds me of Bale.

Eitherway, hadn’t heard of him until I saw “I want to look like that guy”. Seems like a humble, generous and likable guy.[/quote]

Oh god not this shit again. Christian bale weighs like 160 lbs, thats a bunch of horseshit, comparing apples to oranges.

102

Myself, I was reminded a lot more of Chris Rock.

103

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.

Jeff Willet:

Height: 5’8

Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs
[/quote]

Looks like Christian Bale is ready for the next Batman flick.

He kinda reminds me of Bale.

Eitherway, hadn’t heard of him until I saw “I want to look like that guy”. Seems like a humble, generous and likable guy.[/quote]

Oh god not this shit again. Christian bale weighs like 160 lbs, thats a bunch of horseshit, comparing apples to oranges.
[/quote]

Oh come on, dude, get of your high horse and stop drinking your own piss.

Of course I wasn’t talking about his physique, I was talking about his face. Jeez…

104

So was I!

105

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
So was I![/quote]

Yeah well, then the resemblance doesn’t seem to be as obvious as I thought. So the joke should be on me. Nice one, though.

Please continue…

106

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]doubleh wrote:
I do not believe there is even any such thing as a genetic limit. Consider: if hypertrophy is an adaptive physiological response to lifting weights, why, at some arbitrary time and some arbitrary bodyweight, why would the body suddenly stop adapting to this stimulus? It won’t! There is no line in the sand where the body will stop growing [/quote]

So can you point out to me for example the 780 lb ripped bb’ers? Since for example 770 lb is not beyond any limit nor is itself a limit for anyone, as your theory denies, let alone everyone thus far born?[/quote]

LOL, come on Bill, you’re a smart guy, don’t be so simplistic. Look at this from purely a scientific standpoint, and not a realistic standpoint.

Scientific - 780 lb bodybuilders are probably theoretically possible, from purely a physiological point of view. See my statement above. If the body is stressed, it will adapt. Period. As time goes on, more and more stress will illicit less and less adaptation, but it will never just stop altogether.

Realistic - A 780 lb BB is realistically impossible because, well, for a lot of reasons, but I guess the more salient ones are: 1 - the amount of drugs alone required would likely be fatal. 2 - time. Due to the law of diminsishing returns, a BB would run out of time (read: get too old) before they could get to insane bodyweights.

Let’s not forget, 30-40 years ago Olympias were won at 230 lbs. If someone had said a guy named Ronnie Coleman would have stepped on stage at a cheeseburger or 2 shy of 300 lbs, they would have said impossible - yet it happened. Somehow, BBs found ways to get bigger and bigger, but that is almost beside the point, and that is: adaptive response doesn’t have a saturation point (excluding age-related hormonal shifts).

107

Food intake is going to make any of that stuff impossible anyway. Even at 780 lb your gut isn’t likely to be large enough for you to be able to consume a whale and a half per day. :wink:

Oh, and the skeleton… Your supraspinatus will have no space to grow past a certain point, and raising your arms to the sides even for a few degrees would cause it to rub against bone and eventually tear… For example. You’d need massive rotator cuff muscles just to hold your upper arm bones in their sockets during your 2500+ lb deadlifts…

Without completely redesigning the human skeleton alone, a 780 lb lean bodybuilder strikes me as extremely unlikely.

The guys weighing 230-240 years ago were simply not large enough to encounter such limitations (although supraspinatus injuries probably happened aplenty already)… And the skeletal/tendon adaption to heavier and heavier weights is ultimately limited… Even with certain chemicals and theoretically unlimited adaption, you only have so much space for certain muscles/tendons available.
Then there are your inner organs etc… Nope, not happening.

FWIW I don’t think there’s much of a point in coming up with theories about this stuff though.

a) It’s something we can’t really influence yet

and

b) It’s not like there’s all that much research going on in that direction (beyond the myostatin thing maybe)… Cancer research funding kind of takes precedence, odd as it seems :wink:
So we don’t even know all that much about limits/the adaption process beyond the basics, or do we?

108

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Man am I the only one that thinks that his head looks like its photo shopped on nearly every picture with his physique. This guy can legitimately be a secret “buff” nerd in a remake of Revenge of the Nerds.[/quote]

Natty guys tend to look like that, between the tanning process, and they usually have smaller necks. It seems to take much more isolated neck work to get it to match their bodies. Way more time then would be worth the reward on stage

109

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Man am I the only one that thinks that his head looks like its photo shopped on nearly every picture with his physique. This guy can legitimately be a secret “buff” nerd in a remake of Revenge of the Nerds.[/quote]

Natty guys tend to look like that, between the tanning process, and they usually have smaller necks. It seems to take much more isolated neck work to get it to match their bodies. Way more time then would be worth the reward on stage
[/quote]

I don’t agree with that at all. I think some of you are making the mistake of assuming that the guys in natty contests even have the best genetics.

My guess is, the guys who truly have strand out genetics for building muscle don’t give a shit about how natural they are because the money isn’t there.

I’ve had a bigger neck since I first got serious and learned what a “shrug” was.

110

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Food intake is going to make any of that stuff impossible anyway. Even at 780 lb your gut isn’t likely to be large enough for you to be able to consume a whale and a half per day. :wink:

Oh, and the skeleton… Your supraspinatus will have no space to grow past a certain point, and raising your arms to the sides even for a few degrees would cause it to rub against bone and eventually tear… For example. You’d need massive rotator cuff muscles just to hold your upper arm bones in their sockets during your 2500+ lb deadlifts…

Without completely redesigning the human skeleton alone, a 780 lb lean bodybuilder strikes me as extremely unlikely.

The guys weighing 230-240 years ago were simply not large enough to encounter such limitations (although supraspinatus injuries probably happened aplenty already)… And the skeletal/tendon adaption to heavier and heavier weights is ultimately limited… Even with certain chemicals and theoretically unlimited adaption, you only have so much space for certain muscles/tendons available.
Then there are your inner organs etc… Nope, not happening.

FWIW I don’t think there’s much of a point in coming up with theories about this stuff though.

a) It’s something we can’t really influence yet

and

b) It’s not like there’s all that much research going on in that direction (beyond the myostatin thing maybe)… Cancer research funding kind of takes precedence, odd as it seems :wink:
So we don’t even know all that much about limits/the adaption process beyond the basics, or do we?

[/quote]

Yes C_C, good points all. You’ll notice I limited my response to what I thought were the most salient points.

Getting that large is a realistic impossibility. That doesn’t mean that we all reach a point where further growth is impossible.

111

I agree with that, doubleh.

112

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
Man am I the only one that thinks that his head looks like its photo shopped on nearly every picture with his physique. This guy can legitimately be a secret “buff” nerd in a remake of Revenge of the Nerds.[/quote]

Natty guys tend to look like that, between the tanning process, and they usually have smaller necks. It seems to take much more isolated neck work to get it to match their bodies. Way more time then would be worth the reward on stage
[/quote]

I don’t agree with that at all. I think some of you are making the mistake of assuming that the guys in natty contests even have the best genetics.

My guess is, the guys who truly have strand out genetics for building muscle don’t give a shit about how natural they are because the money isn’t there. [/quote] Truth to that… You might find them winning a natty show once or twice, but then they’ll likely just move on.
Besides, if you have really great bbing genetics… Competing in natty shows has got to be hell. Everybody accusing you all day long etc… Can’t be that much fun.

[quote]

I’ve had a bigger neck since I first got serious and learned what a “shrug” was.[/quote]

I noticed mine thickening up quite after about half a year of shoulder+trap spec (derived from what you did).
That being said, I’m now down to ~265 and my neck certainly looks a lot less thick than it used to… In that t-cell side pic you looked leaner than I was at the same weight though.

Dieting down into contest shape drug-free is not exactly kind on the hormone levels, and you are way beyond the level of size easily maintaineable on lowered levels…,
So who knows what’s going to happen once you decide to diet down all the way?

I certainly dislike how natties (at a decent level of competition, obviously not some crappy local show) are supposed to get into fairly similar condition as assisted bodybuilders. Total waste of muscle-mass and what an idiotic double-standard.

You’ll likely be dieting for longer than the average “I weigh 170 in the off-season and 165 in competition, and compete 10 times a year”-Gironda 8x8 -using, carrot and apple -eating LIFETIME NATURAL!!!111, too… More time for your neck to waste away :wink:

Good luck in any event…

But I really wonder if there is much of a point in dieting down drug free if you’ve already made it to a drug-free 270-300(far from lean of course, but not exactly fat either) and super-strong “off-season” shape. Might just be a total waste, and in the end people who’ve been competing 5 times a year since they were 14 with 12 inch arms (and now weigh all of 180 lbs) are still going to accuse the fuck out of you.

113

[quote]whoami wrote:
Prof:
‘big’ is a relative term. It’s useless.[/quote]

Relative terms are all we have. Specific numbers for bodyweight, lifts or measurements mean little in terms of how you’ll look. Of course a lean 5’8 230lb guy with 20" arms will look huge, but there are a couple of members on here with impressive physiques but relatively low numbers. You know “big” when you see it.

114

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.

Jeff Willet:

Height: 5’8

Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs
[/quote]

Looks like Christian Bale is ready for the next Batman flick.

He kinda reminds me of Bale.

Eitherway, hadn’t heard of him until I saw “I want to look like that guy”. Seems like a humble, generous and likable guy.[/quote]

Oh god not this shit again. Christian bale weighs like 160 lbs, thats a bunch of horseshit, comparing apples to oranges.
[/quote]

Oh come on, dude, get of your high horse and stop drinking your own piss.

Of course I wasn’t talking about his physique, I was talking about his face. Jeez…[/quote]

Oh… LOL!

Sorry dude, there’s just a lot of Hollywood Lover Ryan Reynolds n Seacrest fucks on here that piss me off sometimes.

115

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.

Jeff Willet:

Height: 5’8

Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs
[/quote]

Looks like Christian Bale is ready for the next Batman flick.

He kinda reminds me of Bale.

Eitherway, hadn’t heard of him until I saw “I want to look like that guy”. Seems like a humble, generous and likable guy.[/quote]

Oh god not this shit again. Christian bale weighs like 160 lbs, thats a bunch of horseshit, comparing apples to oranges.
[/quote]

Oh come on, dude, get of your high horse and stop drinking your own piss.

Of course I wasn’t talking about his physique, I was talking about his face. Jeez…[/quote]

Oh… LOL!

Sorry dude, there’s just a lot of Hollywood Lover Ryan Reynolds n Seacrest fucks on here that piss me off sometimes.
[/quote]

It’s Bhaal’s blood in you… The slayer wants to take over :wink:

116

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
…
But I really wonder if there is much of a point in dieting down drug free if you’ve already made it to a drug-free 270-300(far from lean of course, but not exactly fat either) and super-strong “off-season” shape. Might just be a total waste, and in the end people who’ve been competing 5 times a year since they were 14 with 12 inch arms (and now weigh all of 180 lbs) are still going to accuse the fuck out of you.
[/quote]

Yeah, I have been thinking this lately. My original plan was to about as big as I can naturally, then diet down for a comp to see how my genetics fair, but I will probably eventually start using either way since my goal is to get as big as possible, and if I dieted down (after reaching a large size naturally) it could just be wasteful, so I’m not sure I will now.

That’s probably why PX is taking it so slow in dieting down (from what I’ve picked up), although Dark Iron came back up pretty quick, it would still be a waste to come down too quickly and lose all those years of hard work. If I was only 220 I wouldn’t be that worried, but at 270+ I’m not sure I would want to risk it.

117

[quote]doubleh wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]doubleh wrote:
I do not believe there is even any such thing as a genetic limit. Consider: if hypertrophy is an adaptive physiological response to lifting weights, why, at some arbitrary time and some arbitrary bodyweight, why would the body suddenly stop adapting to this stimulus? It won’t! There is no line in the sand where the body will stop growing [/quote]

So can you point out to me for example the 780 lb ripped bb’ers? Since for example 770 lb is not beyond any limit nor is itself a limit for anyone, as your theory denies, let alone everyone thus far born?[/quote]

LOL, come on Bill, you’re a smart guy, don’t be so simplistic. Look at this from purely a scientific standpoint, and not a realistic standpoint.

Scientific - 780 lb bodybuilders are probably theoretically possible, from purely a physiological point of view. See my statement above. If the body is stressed, it will adapt. Period. As time goes on, more and more stress will illicit less and less adaptation, but it will never just stop altogether.

Realistic - A 780 lb BB is realistically impossible because, well, for a lot of reasons, but I guess the more salient ones are: 1 - the amount of drugs alone required would likely be fatal. 2 - time. Due to the law of diminsishing returns, a BB would run out of time (read: get too old) before they could get to insane bodyweights.

Let’s not forget, 30-40 years ago Olympias were won at 230 lbs. If someone had said a guy named Ronnie Coleman would have stepped on stage at a cheeseburger or 2 shy of 300 lbs, they would have said impossible - yet it happened.

Somehow, BBs found ways to get bigger and bigger, but that is almost beside the point, and that is: adaptive response doesn’t have a saturation point (excluding age-related hormonal shifts).[/quote]

If you say it is scientific that there is no limit to the muscular size of human beings, well okay. I didn’t see where you showed it though, and the argument of there “being” no limit although you acknowledge that “realistically” there are values that cannot possibly be attained does provide a little puzzlement.

118

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:

[quote]Carnage wrote:

[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.

Jeff Willet:

Height: 5’8

Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs
[/quote]

Looks like Christian Bale is ready for the next Batman flick.

He kinda reminds me of Bale.

Eitherway, hadn’t heard of him until I saw “I want to look like that guy”. Seems like a humble, generous and likable guy.[/quote]

Oh god not this shit again. Christian bale weighs like 160 lbs, thats a bunch of horseshit, comparing apples to oranges.
[/quote]

Oh come on, dude, get of your high horse and stop drinking your own piss.

Of course I wasn’t talking about his physique, I was talking about his face. Jeez…[/quote]

Oh… LOL!

Sorry dude, there’s just a lot of Hollywood Lover Ryan Reynolds n Seacrest fucks on here that piss me off sometimes.
[/quote]

It’s Bhaal’s blood in you… The slayer wants to take over :wink:

[/quote]

The NEW LORD OF MURDER!!!

HAHA finally somebody gets it.

119

I ordered his DVD’s and damn… He just goes on and on on training and nutrition too.
This guy knows his shit.

And What a BEAST!

120

[quote]babaganoosh wrote:

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
…
But I really wonder if there is much of a point in dieting down drug free if you’ve already made it to a drug-free 270-300(far from lean of course, but not exactly fat either) and super-strong “off-season” shape. Might just be a total waste, and in the end people who’ve been competing 5 times a year since they were 14 with 12 inch arms (and now weigh all of 180 lbs) are still going to accuse the fuck out of you.
[/quote]

Yeah, I have been thinking this lately. My original plan was to about as big as I can naturally, then diet down for a comp to see how my genetics fair, but I will probably eventually start using either way since my goal is to get as big as possible, and if I dieted down (after reaching a large size naturally) it could just be wasteful, so I’m not sure I will now.

That’s probably why PX is taking it so slow in dieting down (from what I’ve picked up), although Dark Iron came back up pretty quick, it would still be a waste to come down too quickly and lose all those years of hard work. If I was only 220 I wouldn’t be that worried, but at 270+ I’m not sure I would want to risk it.[/quote]

I am in no way near any of u in development, but i would think that if u got up there before, you could get up there again. Who knows what u could do or where u could go if u dieted down from 270 to contest shape and competed. Maybe if u didnt and u began some cycles then u might be cutting yourself short from all the effort you put in naturally.

Why not compete naturally to begin with, then rebound and once it becomes difficult to reach the size you were, began cycling and push even higher, then when u diet down with gear, ull retain more muscle.

A lot of the IFBB pros were natties till the 200-220s, then they won comps and began cycling. Seems fair to me. If i ever reached Willets top performance, id begin using once i got my pro card.

CC any chance of competing, i know u like to beat the log book but why not?!