Jay Cutler:
Height: 5’ 9’
Contest Weight: 274 Lbs
Now, Let me say that I have nothing against steroid usage. I’m a huge BB fan in general, and look forward to going to both INBF/WNBF and IFBB events in the future.
But I DO find it Amazing when someone can attain such a great physique without using. I also think that Jeff Willet most likely gets more scrutiny and harsh criticism than the respect he deserves.
God, Jay Cutler, he’s like, twice as wide as Willet.
Very good video. Very articulate. Not gonna comment on the whoami and genetics shitstorm and the prior shitstorm with regards to whether Willet is 100% natural or not cuz I just wanted to drop in and say:
God, Jay Cutler, he’s like, twice as wide as Willet (a bit of an exaggeration due to the angle of the pose and the scaling of the pics, but still HUGE difference). Seems like the natty’s tend to have better conditioning though, or at least more striations.
[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:
God, Jay Cutler, he’s like, twice as wide as Willet.
Very good video. Very articulate. Not gonna comment on the whoami and genetics shitstorm and the prior shitstorm with regards to whether Willet is 100% natural or not cuz I just wanted to drop in and say:
God, Jay Cutler, he’s like, twice as wide as Willet (a bit of an exaggeration due to the angle of the pose and the scaling of the pics, but still HUGE difference). Seems like the natty’s tend to have better conditioning though, or at least more striations. [/quote]
That is a bad picture of a guy not known at all for his condition.
Nattys and assisted guys get to similar levels of leanness. It’s the levels of dryness and fullness that assisted guys have the biggest advantage/difference in.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]A Ninny Mouse wrote:
God, Jay Cutler, he’s like, twice as wide as Willet.
Very good video. Very articulate. Not gonna comment on the whoami and genetics shitstorm and the prior shitstorm with regards to whether Willet is 100% natural or not cuz I just wanted to drop in and say:
God, Jay Cutler, he’s like, twice as wide as Willet (a bit of an exaggeration due to the angle of the pose and the scaling of the pics, but still HUGE difference). Seems like the natty’s tend to have better conditioning though, or at least more striations. [/quote]
That is a bad picture of a guy not known at all for his condition.
Nattys and assisted guys get to similar levels of leanness. It’s the levels of dryness and fullness that assisted guys have the biggest advantage/difference in. [/quote]
Of course, I shouldn’t have spoken about things I have so very little knowledge of. The only nattys whose pictures I can remember off the top of my head are Willet (whose picture is straightaways above) and JRod, who is known for crazy conditioning. So bad sample size, yeah. I’m not particularly knowledgeable with regards to the “illegal” aspects of the sport, so please forgive the ignorance on my part.
Man am I the only one that thinks that his head looks like its photo shopped on nearly every picture with his physique. This guy can legitimately be a secret “buff” nerd in a remake of Revenge of the Nerds.
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
You don’t like my attitude, I get it. That doesn’t make me wrong, of course, but people can draw their own erroneous conclusions based on something I say and that may halt their progress. I can see that.
-
I’m not dieting now. I’m currently 200 lbs, up from 183 last year. Bodyfat is higher, but I’m fine with that.
-
I don’t train 8x8 anymore, though I still like to come back to that routine occationally.
Not to make this into a ‘me’ thing (movie reference…), but since the ad hominems started coming at me left right and centre, I wanted to clear that up.[/quote]
Of course we don’t like your attitude, I don’t think any serious bodybuilder/aspiring bodybuilder will succeed with your attitude.
6’1 and 200 lbs and you’re already running AAS? C’mon man… I’m 6’4, and i’ve been 252 lbs at my highest, without AAS, and lifting some serious freaking weight. Most people at my height will blame genetics for EVERYTHING, be it lanky or skinny or lever disadvantages, but I didn’t.
Your goals are your goals, but this is in the BB forum for a reason. The “Looking good naked” so you can post in the RMP mindset is NOT bodybuilding.
And please, Don’t bring that whole elitist “You dumb god worshipping Americans” bullshit in here. By your negative mindset and overall bad attitude towards REAL progress, you’ve already proven that you have your head up your ass, so don’t take it out and spew shit all over the place.
[/quote]
Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I’m NOT on the juice. Never have been.
Weather I train to look good naked, does not in any way mean that my training should not be defined as bodybuilding. What if I say that I train to look good on stage for the judges? Is that bodybuilding?[/quote]
Yes, it is. The bodybuilding forum (TO ME) refers to the SPORT of bodybuilding. It’s a compteition.
I don’t know why most people in here think that lifting weights in general = bodybuilding.
[/quote]
Great. You have no idea what ‘looking good naked’ means to me, and in the same way as a BB competition, it’s all about looks. You don’t know what I’d like to look like, yet you still claim I’m not bodybuilding because I haven’t stepped on a stage yet. What if I’d like to step on stage in the future, does that qualify my training as bodybuilding or does that only apply if I’ve already competed?
Prof X:
‘Big muscles’ is such a vague fucking term, it’s not even useful.
This thread isnt about you, so time to shut the hell up already, or get your posts deleted.
As for willet and cutler, That pic of cutler may be at a near 300 lbs, he must be guest posing somewhere. I just wanted to get them both in a similar pose.
Regardless, 70+ pounds heavier on a competition stage, and only an inch in height difference is a big number.
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
As for willet and cutler, That pic of cutler may be at a near 300 lbs, he must be guest posing somewhere. I just wanted to get them both in a similar pose.
Regardless, 70+ pounds heavier on a competition stage, and only an inch in height difference is a big number.[/quote]
I think that pic of Cutler is from the 2006 Olympia. The year he beat Coleman.
[quote]whoami wrote:
Great. You have no idea what ‘looking good naked’ means to me, and in the same way as a BB competition, it’s all about looks. You don’t know what I’d like to look like, yet you still claim I’m not bodybuilding because I haven’t stepped on a stage yet. What if I’d like to step on stage in the future, does that qualify my training as bodybuilding or does that only apply if I’ve already competed?
Prof X:
‘Big muscles’ is such a vague fucking term, it’s not even useful.[/quote]
You aren’t bodybuilding because your goals do not seem to include reaching some extreme limit as far as muscle gains. Bodybuilding is not about just gaining a little muscle. You can bet that if Frank Zane had the genes to build even more muscle that he would have.
“Big muscles” is not vague. We are talking about what is “big” to experienced lifters. Most experienced weight trainers would NOT consider an arm under 18" to be “big” unless the guy sporting them was about 5’4"-5’6" or unless their muscle bellies were such that their smaller arm looked even more impressive because of shape.
If that still isn’t clear, you do not have big muscles.
[quote]whoami wrote:
and in the same way as a BB competition, it’s all about looks. You don’t know what I’d like to look like, yet you still claim I’m not bodybuilding because I haven’t stepped on a stage yet. What if I’d like to step on stage in the future, does that qualify my training as bodybuilding or does that only apply if I’ve already competed?
[/quote]
If you think that a BB comp is all about looks, you’d probably be blown away by the amount of tactics, self-knowledge and psychology involved in a pose-down (that would be a pretty cool topic for a thread or article - hint, hint!). Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t there…
[quote]roybot wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
and in the same way as a BB competition, it’s all about looks. You don’t know what I’d like to look like, yet you still claim I’m not bodybuilding because I haven’t stepped on a stage yet. What if I’d like to step on stage in the future, does that qualify my training as bodybuilding or does that only apply if I’ve already competed?
[/quote]
If you think that a BB comp is all about looks, you’d probably be blown away by the amount of tactics, self-knowledge and psychology involved in a pose-down (that would be a pretty cool topic for a thread or article - hint, hint!). Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it isn’t there…
[/quote]
Exactly. Every move you make is like a move on the chessboard. There’s plenty of people who come in big and shredded and lose, because they don’t know how to pose, they dont know how to carry themself properly, or just get thrown off their game.
Yes yes. I’m very familiar with all the mind-games that supposedly goes on at bodybuilding contests. Arnold telling Frank Zane a joke at the 1980 Mr. O., making him laugh which messed up his posing. Arnold tricked Sergio to leave the stage in the at a Mr. O. in the early seventies (1972?). Arnold using typical “height poses” like the front double biceps to tower over Franco, which Franco would counter by doing kneeling poses.
I think it’s been blown out of proportion. Arnold always made shit up to make it sound exiting. But, yeah, posing used to be huge in bodybuilding competition. You don’t need to be a good poser to win the Mr. O. these days of course. Ronnie just walks around on stage hitting half assed poses. He’s no Robert Paris, Ed Corney, Frank Zane or Samir Bannout.
Prof:
‘big’ is a relative term. It’s useless.
[quote]whoami wrote:
Maybe he did achieve that condition whithout steroids. I can believe that. What I do NOT believe, though, is that MOST people can achieve a condition like that with the same training and nutrition. Genetics is a huge factor in just about everything, and it’s everything in bodybuilding. I’m never going to look anything like Jeff unless I start using AAS. Neither will most of you guys.
http://www.dnalc.org/view/15412-Chromosome-17-ACE-gene-and-athletic-ability-Matt-Ridley.html[/quote]
Well said.
If he is drug free then he is exceptionally gifted genetically.
I do use AAS and am still no where near his level of conditioning, and I trained naturally for 7 years.
I find it hard to believe he has not had any sort of ‘assistance’ like HGH or prohormones or steroids, we all know how easy it is to pass those drug tests. I’m not saying he’s lying just that I personally am skeptical.
Either way good luck to him he’s done well.
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
Maybe he did achieve that condition whithout steroids. I can believe that. What I do NOT believe, though, is that MOST people can achieve a condition like that with the same training and nutrition. Genetics is a huge factor in just about everything, and it’s everything in bodybuilding. I’m never going to look anything like Jeff unless I start using AAS. Neither will most of you guys.
http://www.dnalc.org/view/15412-Chromosome-17-ACE-gene-and-athletic-ability-Matt-Ridley.html[/quote]
Well said.
If he is drug free then he is exceptionally gifted genetically.
I do use AAS and am still no where near his level of conditioning, and I trained naturally for 7 years.
I find it hard to believe he has not had any sort of ‘assistance’ like HGH or prohormones or steroids, we all know how easy it is to pass those drug tests. I’m not saying he’s lying just that I personally am skeptical.
Either way good luck to him he’s done well.[/quote]
Obviously he has good genetics, but easy to pass drug tests? They detect masking agents too.
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
Maybe he did achieve that condition whithout steroids. I can believe that. What I do NOT believe, though, is that MOST people can achieve a condition like that with the same training and nutrition. Genetics is a huge factor in just about everything, and it’s everything in bodybuilding. I’m never going to look anything like Jeff unless I start using AAS. Neither will most of you guys.
http://www.dnalc.org/view/15412-Chromosome-17-ACE-gene-and-athletic-ability-Matt-Ridley.html[/quote]
Well said.
If he is drug free then he is exceptionally gifted genetically.
I do use AAS and am still no where near his level of conditioning, and I trained naturally for 7 years.
I find it hard to believe he has not had any sort of ‘assistance’ like HGH or prohormones or steroids, we all know how easy it is to pass those drug tests. I’m not saying he’s lying just that I personally am skeptical.
Either way good luck to him he’s done well.[/quote]
Obviously he has good genetics, but easy to pass drug tests? They detect masking agents too.
[/quote]
I doubt that the drug tests JW has to pass are any more comprehensive than those administered by the doping people at the Olympics. Charlie Francis who was ben Johnson’s coach pretty much thinks testing in the Olympics is a joke. Pretty much everyone is on the juice, pretty much no one gets busted. Not the top guys anyway.
[quote]whoami wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
Maybe he did achieve that condition whithout steroids. I can believe that. What I do NOT believe, though, is that MOST people can achieve a condition like that with the same training and nutrition. Genetics is a huge factor in just about everything, and it’s everything in bodybuilding. I’m never going to look anything like Jeff unless I start using AAS. Neither will most of you guys.
http://www.dnalc.org/view/15412-Chromosome-17-ACE-gene-and-athletic-ability-Matt-Ridley.html[/quote]
Well said.
If he is drug free then he is exceptionally gifted genetically.
I do use AAS and am still no where near his level of conditioning, and I trained naturally for 7 years.
I find it hard to believe he has not had any sort of ‘assistance’ like HGH or prohormones or steroids, we all know how easy it is to pass those drug tests. I’m not saying he’s lying just that I personally am skeptical.
Either way good luck to him he’s done well.[/quote]
Obviously he has good genetics, but easy to pass drug tests? They detect masking agents too.
[/quote]
I doubt that the drug tests JW has to pass are any more comprehensive than those administered by the doping people at the Olympics. Charlie Francis who was ben Johnson’s coach pretty much thinks testing in the Olympics is a joke. Pretty much everyone is on the juice, pretty much no one gets busted. Not the top guys anyway.
[/quote]
If testing is such a joke how did Johnson get caught, just unlucky i guess.
[quote]whoami wrote:
I doubt that the drug tests JW has to pass are any more comprehensive than those administered by the doping people at the Olympics. Charlie Francis who was ben Johnson’s coach pretty much thinks testing in the Olympics is a joke. Pretty much everyone is on the juice, pretty much no one gets busted. Not the top guys anyway.
[/quote]
I’m sure there are people who do go through measures to beat drug tests at natural shows, but there’s no money in natural bodybuilding. The comeptitors I know are in it for the challenge and sense of accomplishment. I would seriously wonder if someone would go through such lengths to cheat a simple drug test in an effort to win a plastic trophy.
S
[quote]doubleh wrote:
I do not believe there is even any such thing as a genetic limit. Consider: if hypertrophy is an adaptive physiological response to lifting weights, why, at some arbitrary time and some arbitrary bodyweight, why would the body suddenly stop adapting to this stimulus? It won’t! There is no line in the sand where the body will stop growing [/quote]
So can you point out to me for example the 780 lb ripped bb’ers? Since for example 770 lb is not beyond any limit nor is itself a limit for anyone, as your theory denies, let alone everyone thus far born?
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.
Jeff Willet:
Height: 5’8
Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs
[/quote]
Looks like Christian Bale is ready for the next Batman flick.
He kinda reminds me of Bale.
Eitherway, hadn’t heard of him until I saw “I want to look like that guy”. Seems like a humble, generous and likable guy.