You better believe it. This is coming up a lot lately and I think people need a reality check. You are born with certain genetic traits as we all(should at least) know. Muscle belly length, insertion points, muscle recovery abilities etc. YOU AREN’T GOING TO CHANGE THEM. The thing that bugs me a lot is this…
“Pros take boatloads of drugs”
Do they take steroids, it would be silly to think otherwise. Are they on a 10 drug stack, maybe. Unless you are training partners or friends with them can we cut the crap and just admit that you HOPE the drugs is what seperates them from you and me? Give me 3 grams of test a week and GH and slin till I explode and I’ll never be on an Olympia stage.
It’s not the drugs people, what is it? Someone like Paul Dillet looked INSANE when he first started training for bodybuilding. Was it because he was on a 20 drug stack and training harder than everyone around him? It’s laughable to say the least.
You see it all the time in groups of guys who lift together, people will be lifting the same weights in the beginning, eating the same stuff most likely and if it’s their choice doing the same drugs. One guy will explode out of the gates with gains and leave his friends in the dust. If you can’t figure out why that is I don’t know what to tell you.
[quote]Epimetheus wrote:
I remember seeing this video on youtube of Lee Priest when he was 17 y.o. It was completely obvious that he was going to go pro someday.
[/quote]
I used Paul Dillet because I love that picture ha. But any number of pros were gigantic as soon as they started training.
My post isn’t meant as a “you are a nobody if you don’t have 20 inch arms in 2 years!” it’s a let’s keep this in perspecitive of what we’ve got to work with. I have terrible biceps for example. They attach halfway up my arm it seems and peak like a coffee table.
Am I going to give up and stop training arms because they will never peak like Albert Beckles or attach in my freakin elbow like Sergio Oliva? No, I’m giong to build them up the best I can and not stress that they aren’t a strong bodypart for me.
The best running back (high school) in the state was from my highschool. His brother is only a sophmore, he is already 6’3" and 240 lbs. The fastest people on the track team don’t work at practice, they eat skittles before practice. Certain people can get away doing this stuff and still do really well.
Thibs mentioned in one article (I believe in “A Return to Bodybuilding”) that he knows guys on steroids and still don’t really look like they train.
Genetics place a ceiling upon everybody - that is undeniable. But you can still try for even better - focusing on “limitations” will set someone up to fail. That’s the issue as I see it - people are too quick to play the “genetics card” (if you will). It’s become an automatic, fall-back excuse for failure.
Although I disagree with you that muscle recovery abilities are genetic and can’t be changed.
Although I disagree with you that muscle recovery abilities are genetic and can’t be changed.[/quote]
This one I knew I would get some flack on, but I believe there are real hard gainers(not the vast majority of people who think they are) out there who need different styles of the training than what would make the average bear grow.
I know I would die within a couple weeks trying to keep up with Ronnie Colemans frequency of bodyparts hit and balls to the wall training he goes through. Dorian Yates understood his recovery wasn’t up there with the other guys around him and made the adjustments necessary.
But conversation is welcome about the topic for sure.
I should also point out that I’m assuming the people are eating properly, supplementing what’s neccesary and getting sleep. Which everyone here is doing already right?
Right - but even those with poor recovery capabilities can improve them through training.
One thing I’ve been thinking a lot about that pertains to this is Arnold and how his training would annihilate most people. Was his ability to tolerate this genetic? Or was it his years of training that built up his work capacity to such a high degree?
Everybody always mentions his superior genetics, and while certainly they played a large part, I don’t think that is the entire picture. I believe that his body adapted over the years to handle such high volume work, and while others may not reach that level, they can certainly build up their capacity to handle higher volumes of training and still recover.
[quote]Dark_Knight wrote:
That’s the issue as I see it - people are too quick to play the “genetics card” (if you will). It’s become an automatic, fall-back excuse for failure.
[/quote]
And I want to speak on this part too. A prime example is Dorian Yates, the guy looked like your average joe until he started training and then BOOM blew up. If he had assessed himself in the beginning(pre training) and said I don’t have it and didn’t push himself to his limits then we’d probably be talking about several time Olympia winner Flex Wheeler ha.
BUT he did train hard and eat his way up to his genetic potential that a mile ahead of most people at that time.
So it goes both ways this genetic thing I’m trying to say, train and eat and rest etc. to meet your limits or you’ll never see what you were capable of.
Any pictures of a young Mike Metzner are proof that genetics matter a lot. I don’t care if metzner’s HIT methods work or not. He’s so naturally gifted that anything would have made him grow.
[quote]Dark_Knight wrote:
<<< That’s the issue as I see it - people are too quick to play the “genetics card” (if you will). It’s become an automatic, fall-back excuse for failure. >>>[/quote]
This is a good point. For some guys anybody bigger than them must be genetically superior and or using. I really believe this has cheapened the goals of many. They go in with the assumption that any truly impressive development is for somebody else and they proceed with that foundational mindset unconsciously governing their entire lifting career.
I wonder how many guys become preoccupied with being lean because it seems so much more obtainable than being big.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Any pictures of a young Mike Metzner are proof that genetics matter a lot. I don’t care if metzner’s HIT methods work or not. He’s so naturally gifted that anything would have made him grow. [/quote]
Or Mike Tyson - when he was 12 years old he already looked like a man.
Anybody with any experience whatsoever in lifting can single out a roid monster a mile away, and also easily determine genetic potential by looking at a few key areas.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This is a good point. For some guys anybody bigger than them must be genetically superior and or using. [/quote]
When I see a bigger guy I like to think he’s eating more than me and trains harder, gets me a little motivated when I’m struggling to get the food in or thinking about racking the bar.
Other people that have that mindset(that he’s got better genes or is on drugs) are pretty negative people and usually don’t do well in this sport.
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
Again, positive mental attitude means ZILCH. You can believe all day long that you can jump over the moon…but you’ll never do it.[/quote]
USNS, my positive thinking may not get me to jump over the moon, but my mind can talk me into being sick.
I agree genetics play a part in physicallity. The different races prove that. Genetics makes our bodies. Soma cells say we have legs, sex cells say how long they are so the adjective part of our body is hereditary and modifiable.
But don’t discount the mental aspect. People convince themselves they are sick and feel sick, sick people have used positive thoughts and prayer to cure themselves. Anyone who has ever competed has probably talked themselves up before the competition and it makes a difference. It won’t create the win for you but it will give you an assist.
[quote]USNS physique wrote:
Again, positive mental attitude means ZILCH. You can believe all day long that you can jump over the moon…but you’ll never do it.[/quote]
Here’s a recent comment from Thibs (not to me):
“…your comment really illustrates how your mindset is negative. Nobody has ever achieved a high level of success while being in that state of mind.”
