To be able to reach the same level the bodybuilders at mr olympia/mr universe does ones need to have good bodybuilding genetics? or can the average joe do it if he puts enough effort, dedication and time?
(by average joe i mean someone who does not have shitty BB genetics but those not have great ones either)
[quote]titanium wrote:
To be able to reach the same level the bodybuilders at mr olympia/mr universe does ones need to have good bodybuilding genetics? or can the average joe do it if he puts enough effort, dedication and time?
(by average joe i mean someone who does not have shitty BB genetics but those not have great ones either)
[/quote]
Probably impossible to know before you start taking drugs like water, and see how you respond.
In my opinion its crasy to even think about the top in bodybuilding. I dont give much for using drugs, its disgusting in my opinion.
I would say good geneics is a must and a good HGH supplier.
[quote]titanium wrote:
To be able to reach the same level the bodybuilders at mr olympia/mr universe does ones need to have good bodybuilding genetics? or can the average joe do it if he puts enough effort, dedication and time?
(by average joe i mean someone who does not have shitty BB genetics but those not have great ones either)
[/quote]
People who win bodybuilding shows are the genetic elite. “Average Joes” don’t usually qualify. If you have been training for 4 years and people aren’t constantly discussing how you stand out from other lifters (not just the “you are getting bigger” type of comments) then you probably do not have the genetics for it.
Someone with the genetics will know that they aren’t “average” within that time. They will have the look of a well built weight lifter or bodybuilder. Out of those, even fewer would ever be good enough to win professional contests. That would mean that not only are you above average, but out of those who are above average, you still stand out in the crowd.
The poster “Gifted” in the picture forum has competed in NPC contests and I have seen him in videos. He looks amazing by himself but in a room filled with people just like him, in the past he has simply “fit in”. He now has the size to truly stand out but that took him several years…and he is nowhere near “average” in terms of genetics.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
People who win bodybuilding shows are the genetic elite. “Average Joes” don’t usually qualify. If you have been training for 4 years and people aren’t constantly discussing how you stand out from other lifters (not just the “you are getting bigger” type of comments) then you probably do not have the genetics for it.
Someone with the genetics will know that they aren’t “average” within that time. They will have the look of a well built weight lifter or bodybuilder. Out of those, even fewer would ever be good enough to win professional contests. That would mean that not only are you above average, but out of those who are above average, you still stand out in the crowd.
The poster “Gifted” in the picture forum has competed in NPC contests and I have seen him in videos. He looks amazing by himself but in a room filled with people just like him, in the past he has simply “fit in”. He now has the size to truly stand out but that took him several years…and he is nowhere near “average” in terms of genetics.[/quote]
Does being tall help?
4 years is quite some time. would it make a difference if a 16yr old did it or a 24 yr old ?
the only person i noted who seemed to be gifted was schwarzenegger, he had this aura about him, dunno what is was but i felt it everytime i`d watch him. the ones today dont have it.
so will genetics determine how your muscles look and the speed at which they grow or is ther soemthing else effected by it?
mistake
[quote]titanium wrote:
Does being tall help?[/quote]
It usually takes a taller person longer to fill out.
Taller Pro Bodybuilders: Gunter Schlierkamp and Toney Freeman
So, to what is your question referring? Does it help in what way?
The 16 year old would obviously have an eight year jump on the 24 year old. The 16 year old could also take advantage of growth spurts which could add to any size gained if they were eating to grow instead of dieting like so many of these guys are doing just to see abs.
Other than that, the gains seen are based on your genetics…AND your food intake, intensity in the gym and ability to realize what works for YOUR body early on. Obviously, a decrease in the RATE of growth should be expected over the age of 35 even though many guys claim they make some of their best gains and reach that level of “muscle maturity” within that age range of 30-40.
[quote]
the only person i noted who seemed to be gifted was schwarzenegger, he had this aura about him, dunno what is was but i felt it everytime i`d watch him. the ones today dont have it.[/quote]
Bullshit. The ones today don’t have the media focused in on them because bodybuilding isn’t new to the world. Arnold cashed in on coming in at the right TIME and the right PLACE. There is an art to doing just that and most singers and actors gain celebrity by those same means. That is why a rock group or movie star may secure their place in history JUST because they showed up at the right time and the right place.
The rest of Arnold’s success is his motivation to take advantage of any opportunities thrown at him. However, to assume that no one today has as good or even better qualities is a little naive. They probably just won’t ever get that same opportunity. There are thousands of waiters and waitresses in Hollywood that really want to be actors and actresses.
[quote]
so will genetics determine how your muscles look and the speed at which they grow or is ther soemthing else effected by it? [/quote]
Genetics, either applied to how your body naturally develops or how your body does that and reacts to any exogenous hormone sources is what determines how far someone can go.
Someone without the genetics in those areas will NEVER be able to be as big as many pro bodybuilders regardless of what others would have you believe.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
titanium wrote:
Does being tall help?
It usually takes a taller person longer to fill out.
Taller Pro Bodybuilders: Gunter Schlierkamp and Toney Freeman
So, to what is your question referring? Does it help in what way?
4 years is quite some time. would it make a difference if a 16yr old did it or a 24 yr old ?
The 16 year old would obviously have an eight year jump on the 24 year old. The 16 year old could also take advantage of growth spurts which could add to any size gained if they were eating to grow instead of dieting like so many of these guys are doing just to see abs.
Other than that, the gains seen are based on your genetics…AND your food intake, intensity in the gym and ability to realize what works for YOUR body early on. Obviously, a decrease in the RATE of growth should be expected over the age of 35 even though many guys claim they make some of their best gains and reach that level of “muscle maturity” within that age range of 30-40.
the only person i noted who seemed to be gifted was schwarzenegger, he had this aura about him, dunno what is was but i felt it everytime i`d watch him. the ones today dont have it.
Bullshit. The ones today don’t have the media focused in on them because bodybuilding isn’t new to the world. Arnold cashed in on coming in at the right TIME and the right PLACE. There is an art to doing just that and most singers and actors gain celebrity by those same means. That is why a rock group or movie star may secure their place in history JUST because they showed up at the right time and the right place.
The rest of Arnold’s success is his motivation to take advantage of any opportunities thrown at him. However, to assume that no one today has as good or even better qualities is a little naive. They probably just won’t ever get that same opportunity. There are thousands of waiters and waitresses in Hollywood that really want to be actors and actresses.
so will genetics determine how your muscles look and the speed at which they grow or is ther soemthing else effected by it?
Genetics, either applied to how your body naturally develops or how your body does that and reacts to any exogenous hormone sources is what determines how far someone can go.
Someone without the genetics in those areas will NEVER be able to be as big as many pro bodybuilders regardless of what others would have you believe.
[/quote]
i mean would being tall help you from being noticed more than others
[quote]titanium wrote:
i mean would being tall help you from being noticed more than others[/quote]
Because tall people are hard to spot in a crowd?
I’m not sure if you understand what you are asking. Being taller means you need even more weight on you to match the proportions of someone much smaller. Some basketball player who is 6’10" would look skinny at 270lbs while that weight would make someone of average height look huge. It seems that taller people have a harder time filling out for bodybuilding because of that.
statistically, 1 in how many people have this kind of genetic potential?
I’d say 1.343325454
[quote]Imen de Naars wrote:
I’d say 1.343325454[/quote]
Bullshit.
I think just about anyone could achieve an amazing physique, if they trained and ate the way they needed to based on their genetic propensities.
Professor X basically said everything that can be said on this issue. Everyone can create an awesome training plan, diet, and lifestyle in terms of body building, but what makes the difference at the end of the day is how your body responds to it.
For example, I consider myself to have either average or slightly above average genetics, as my body responds to supplements well and putting on muscle has never been a problem for me.
The other edge of this sword however is that I put on fat far too easily. i think what the original poster was getting at was asking the question “can I rely on my genetics to give me the gains I want.” The answer plain and simple is absolutely not. Genetic freaks are maybe 1 in 500,000 at the best, and even the guys who are that one can’t simply rely on genetics to pull them the rest of the way.
Also, for the height question, look up something called the Grecian Ideal calculator and you’ll see what old Xavier means.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
statistically, 1 in how many people have this kind of genetic potential?[/quote]
That is why listening to people discuss how they don’t want to get “too big” when they have no muscle on them at all makes my ears bleed.
The dedication and genetic luck of the draw it takes to get “too big” is so few and far between that it shouldn’t be a worry for anyone.
[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Imen de Naars wrote:
I’d say 1.343325454
Bullshit.
I think just about anyone could achieve an amazing physique, if they trained and ate the way they needed to based on their genetic propensities.[/quote]
I was joking!
[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
Imen de Naars wrote:
I’d say 1.343325454
Bullshit.
I think just about anyone could achieve an amazing physique, if they trained and ate the way they needed to based on their genetic propensities.[/quote]
We aren’t discussing simply being the best “YOU” that you can be. We are discussing the guys who become Mr. Olympia or win major bodybuilding contests. There is a rather large difference between being the biggest guy in your small town gym…and being the best built guy out of thousands who goes on to win several major bodybuilding events.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sliver wrote:
statistically, 1 in how many people have this kind of genetic potential?
That is why listening to people discuss how they don’t want to get “too big” when they have no muscle on them at all makes my ears bleed.[/quote]
That’s not as bad as the reversed situation. An acquaintance of mine (Who is the only other person I know IRL that lifts.) said he had to quit the bench press because he had “too many shirts that he couldn’t fit into.” and sticks strictly to push ups to work his chest. So right now he’s down to a lean 250 at 5 foot 9, and no, he doesn’t use steroids. After talking with him for 15 minutes I want to go home and fucking cut myself.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sliver wrote:
statistically, 1 in how many people have this kind of genetic potential?
That is why listening to people discuss how they don’t want to get “too big” when they have no muscle on them at all makes my ears bleed.
That’s not as bad as the reversed situation. An acquaintance of mine (Who is the only other person I know IRL that lifts.) said he had to quit the bench press because he had “too many shirts that he couldn’t fit into.” and sticks strictly to push ups to work his chest. So right now he’s down to a lean 250 at 5 foot 9, and no, he doesn’t use steroids. After talking with him for 15 minutes I want to go home and fucking cut myself.
[/quote]
Just so you know (whether this is the case here or not, I don’t know), but many people lie about what they do with regards to lifting weights. Much of it comes from being asked the same questions over and over again. Some of it is just because of very stupid questions.
“Do you work out?”
“No, I’ve always looked like this.”
[quote]Sliver wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sliver wrote:
statistically, 1 in how many people have this kind of genetic potential?
That is why listening to people discuss how they don’t want to get “too big” when they have no muscle on them at all makes my ears bleed.
That’s not as bad as the reversed situation. An acquaintance of mine (Who is the only other person I know IRL that lifts.) said he had to quit the bench
press because he had “too many shirts that he couldn’t fit into.” and sticks strictly to push ups to work his chest. So right now he’s down to a lean 250 at 5 foot 9, and no, he doesn’t use steroids. After talking with him for 15 minutes I want to go home and fucking cut myself.
[/quote]
Unless you know for a fact what he does and doesn’t do then take his statements with a grain of salt.
As far as the genetics issue.
Imagine having two men both the same age, same bodyweight, same race start the exact same training program while consuming the exact same amount of foods and getting the same amount of rest. The only difference will be one has a superior genetic predisposition for muscle gains while the other has only a mediocre ability to build. For the first couple weeks maybe there will be no noticeable difference but after a few months the genetically gifted individual will start to pull ahead. He will develop faster, drop bodyfat quicker and transform in much less time than the other man.
When talking about elite professional bodybuilders not only is there a need for the ability to build muscle at a faster rate than the normal person but also the “aesthetic genetics” which is responsible for perfect square pecs, large sweeping quads, low insertion melon sized calves, etc. This is usually the area that people neglect to mention when discussing genetics. So even if you can pack on mounds of muscle you must have the anatomical structure to make it “flow”.
So getting back to your original question. If you plan on being on a Mr. Olympia stage you need a combo of the above requirements. However I know too many people that have given up training altogether because they weren’t genetically gifted or at least they thought they didn’t have the “stuff” to build a worthwhile physique.
I think this is the number 2 bullshit excuse in training only second to being a hardgainer. Bottom line is you’ll never know how far you can go unless you give it your all. Look up some bio’s of top pro bodybuilders and athletes in general. Very few ever thought they’d have the ability to be in that top 1%.
[quote]E-man wrote:
I think this is the number 2 bullshit excuse in training only second to being a hardgainer. Bottom line is you’ll never know how far you can go unless you give it your all. Look up some bio’s of top pro bodybuilders and athletes in general. Very few ever thought they’d have the ability to be in that top 1%.
[/quote]
To add to that, those beginners who are latching onto theories that imply they are “hardgainers” or have “average genetics” before they have even put a few serious years into this are making a HUGE mistake. You don’t know if you have average genetics or not. Not eating enough can hold back progress. Jumping to any conclusions about where you stand without at least putting about 4 years into this is a bad move.