Page 6 of your RMP. Enough said.
When you have that trextay fellow gassing your head up, you know youre doing it wrong.
[quote]BurnMyEyes wrote:
I saw this video a while ago. I think he probably got lumped into using steroids because people heard rumors of Skip Lacour using pro hormones, and Him and Skip were both training with the whole Max OT system. 198 lbs ripped to the bone at what around 6 foot? That is totally feasible with good genetics and years of hard work.[/quote]
Uh, Skip Lacour got busted distributing steroids. Kinda threw a wrench in his whole “I’M 100% NATURAL!!!” protests.
[quote]willsee wrote:
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
I agree whoami’s attitude sucks big donkey balls, but if that is him in his avatar he’s looking pretty good.
The problem is noobs who look at him being so negative and start assuming they don’t have the genetics to look even like that. Than they build lackluster physiques, blame it on bad genetics and call it a day.
[/quote]
Ehh…not quite
Guess you missed his RMP post
From the front upper body maybe…but the rest…you be the judge.
-3 lbs of progress in one year
[/quote]
Everything from his diet to his training… The opposite of what I’d recommend to anyone trying to get as big and strong as possible drug-free, even those who care more about competition than total size.
What did I say before? You only hear guys nowhere near the advanced level obsessing about genetic limits and the danger of reaching them without noticing? Guys who aren’t even doing half of what one has to do to make maximal drug-free (or assisted even) progress as a bodybuilder?
Did I call it or what?
Whoami, take a look at SmallToBig’s transformation and weep.
He contacted us, he did what we told him to do without question, he didn’t obsess about crap he couldn’t possibly know much about, he went the extra mile in diet, training and everything… And he made more progress in 9 months of training (with a short diet at the end) than you did in 7 years.
I don’t even care if you say “genetics” to that. Your prerogative, Mr. trains-8x8-and-eats-less-than-my -140lb-girlfriend- even-after-nearly-a-decade-of-lifting, -yet-considers-himself-some-kind-of-authority-on - genetic-bodybuilding-potential.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]BurnMyEyes wrote:
I saw this video a while ago. I think he probably got lumped into using steroids because people heard rumors of Skip Lacour using pro hormones, and Him and Skip were both training with the whole Max OT system. 198 lbs ripped to the bone at what around 6 foot? That is totally feasible with good genetics and years of hard work.[/quote]
Uh, Skip Lacour got busted distributing steroids. Kinda threw a wrench in his whole “I’M 100% NATURAL!!!” protests.[/quote]
Growth hormone I believe?
But yeah, doesn’t bother me much, I could still believe him to be natural… Of course he may have used GH, but whatever… It’s not going to turn a normally 180 lb guy into a 220 lb (or whatever he weighs, esp. in the off-season) guy. Perhaps he did it to help with staying lean (and keep his body from falling to pieces under the heavy low-rep pounding that is straight max-ot), but practically all max-ot vets who adhere to the system, diet and cardio strictly are fairly lean year-round, even the few locals I know who use it and are drug-free (that includes 2 of my former training partners from way back).
Might really just have sold it to make money. He seems to be kind of a salesman-type… Just check his “blog” (bunch of plugs for his books and vids) and website…
You don’t like my attitude, I get it. That doesn’t make me wrong, of course, but people can draw their own erroneous conclusions based on something I say and that may halt their progress. I can see that.
-
I’m not dieting now. I’m currently 200 lbs, up from 183 last year. Bodyfat is higher, but I’m fine with that.
-
I don’t train 8x8 anymore, though I still like to come back to that routine occationally.
Not to make this into a ‘me’ thing (movie reference…), but since the ad hominems started coming at me left right and centre, I wanted to clear that up.
Good.
Maybe in 5+ years you can begin to truly understand the genetics issue (and you will still not be at your limit, unless you have some sort of muscle-wasting disease or some such).
You wasted years making far less progress than you could have though thanks to stuff like your diet and training… Who knows what you are truly capable of?
I certainly wish you luck in your journey… Don’t take my abrasive posts the wrong way.
I believe that you can hold way more muscle, and certainly WAAAAY more strength… Whatever your natural limit is though, don’t be so sure that you’ll even reach it… Reaching one’s limit implies going all-out to get there… Not sure if I could truly do that either…
I do not believe there is even any such thing as a genetic limit. Consider: if hypertrophy is an adaptive physiological response to lifting weights, why, at some arbitrary time and some arbitrary bodyweight, why would the body suddenly stop adapting to this stimulus? It won’t! There is no line in the sand where the body will stop growing (excluding the exception of aging-related hormone declines; obviously at some point the body’s catabolic hormones overtake the anabolic hormones as we age).
Instead, we are victims of the law of diminishing returns. Newbs can grow on any shit routine from Flex and 2 Big Macs a day. In gets a bit harder after a year or two of fast growth. After 10-15-20 years, it takes a HELL of a lot more work (in all facets: training, diet, recovery, etc) to illicit new growth. In fact, growth may slow to the point that we barely even notice it month to month, but it never stops, at least until we get too old.
Genetics of course play a role in BB. The genetically gifted (like Jeff) may be able to get to 198 shredded a hell of a lot easier than everyone else. This is NOT the same thing as saying no one else can do it - it just may take an exponentially greater amount of work, sacrifice, and dedication.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]BurnMyEyes wrote:
I saw this video a while ago. I think he probably got lumped into using steroids because people heard rumors of Skip Lacour using pro hormones, and Him and Skip were both training with the whole Max OT system. 198 lbs ripped to the bone at what around 6 foot? That is totally feasible with good genetics and years of hard work.[/quote]
Uh, Skip Lacour got busted distributing steroids. Kinda threw a wrench in his whole “I’M 100% NATURAL!!!” protests.[/quote]
Growth hormone I believe?
Guess it’s possible, just seems fishy ya know?
But yeah, doesn’t bother me much, I could still believe him to be natural… Of course he may have used GH, but whatever… It’s not going to turn a normally 180 lb guy into a 220 lb (or whatever he weighs, esp. in the off-season) guy. Perhaps he did it to help with staying lean (and keep his body from falling to pieces under the heavy low-rep pounding that is straight max-ot), but practically all max-ot vets who adhere to the system, diet and cardio strictly are fairly lean year-round, even the few locals I know who use it and are drug-free (that includes 2 of my former training partners from way back).
Might really just have sold it to make money. He seems to be kind of a salesman-type… Just check his “blog” (bunch of plugs for his books and vids) and website…
[/quote]
[quote]whoami wrote:
You don’t like my attitude, I get it. That doesn’t make me wrong, of course, but people can draw their own erroneous conclusions based on something I say and that may halt their progress. I can see that.
-
I’m not dieting now. I’m currently 200 lbs, up from 183 last year. Bodyfat is higher, but I’m fine with that.
-
I don’t train 8x8 anymore, though I still like to come back to that routine occationally.
Not to make this into a ‘me’ thing (movie reference…), but since the ad hominems started coming at me left right and centre, I wanted to clear that up.[/quote]
Of course we don’t like your attitude, I don’t think any serious bodybuilder/aspiring bodybuilder will succeed with your attitude.
6’1 and 200 lbs and you’re already running AAS? C’mon man… I’m 6’4, and i’ve been 252 lbs at my highest, without AAS, and lifting some serious freaking weight. Most people at my height will blame genetics for EVERYTHING, be it lanky or skinny or lever disadvantages, but I didn’t.
Your goals are your goals, but this is in the BB forum for a reason. The “Looking good naked” so you can post in the RMP mindset is NOT bodybuilding.
And please, Don’t bring that whole elitist “You dumb god worshipping Americans” bullshit in here. By your negative mindset and overall bad attitude towards REAL progress, you’ve already proven that you have your head up your ass, so don’t take it out and spew shit all over the place.
[quote]doubleh wrote:
I do not believe there is even any such thing as a genetic limit. Consider: if hypertrophy is an adaptive physiological response to lifting weights, why, at some arbitrary time and some arbitrary bodyweight, why would the body suddenly stop adapting to this stimulus? It won’t! There is no line in the sand where the body will stop growing (excluding the exception of aging-related hormone declines; obviously at some point the body’s catabolic hormones overtake the anabolic hormones as we age).
Instead, we are victims of the law of diminishing returns. Newbs can grow on any shit routine from Flex and 2 Big Macs a day. In gets a bit harder after a year or two of fast growth. After 10-15-20 years, it takes a HELL of a lot more work (in all facets: training, diet, recovery, etc) to illicit new growth. In fact, growth may slow to the point that we barely even notice it month to month, but it never stops, at least until we get too old.
Genetics of course play a role in BB. The genetically gifted (like Jeff) may be able to get to 198 shredded a hell of a lot easier than everyone else. This is NOT the same thing as saying no one else can do it - it just may take an exponentially greater amount of work, sacrifice, and dedication.[/quote]
i agree with this to some extent. that being said im learning in school about cell potential. basically talking about our cells can only grow to a certain size untill more cytoplasm is needed, mitochondira etc etc. where those come from im not sure but i still believe the only time you will stop growing completely is when you tell yourself your done growing.
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
You don’t like my attitude, I get it. That doesn’t make me wrong, of course, but people can draw their own erroneous conclusions based on something I say and that may halt their progress. I can see that.
-
I’m not dieting now. I’m currently 200 lbs, up from 183 last year. Bodyfat is higher, but I’m fine with that.
-
I don’t train 8x8 anymore, though I still like to come back to that routine occationally.
Not to make this into a ‘me’ thing (movie reference…), but since the ad hominems started coming at me left right and centre, I wanted to clear that up.[/quote]
Of course we don’t like your attitude, I don’t think any serious bodybuilder/aspiring bodybuilder will succeed with your attitude.
6’1 and 200 lbs and you’re already running AAS? C’mon man… I’m 6’4, and i’ve been 252 lbs at my highest, without AAS, and lifting some serious freaking weight. Most people at my height will blame genetics for EVERYTHING, be it lanky or skinny or lever disadvantages, but I didn’t.
Your goals are your goals, but this is in the BB forum for a reason. The “Looking good naked” so you can post in the RMP mindset is NOT bodybuilding.
And please, Don’t bring that whole elitist “You dumb god worshipping Americans” bullshit in here. By your negative mindset and overall bad attitude towards REAL progress, you’ve already proven that you have your head up your ass, so don’t take it out and spew shit all over the place.
[/quote]
Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I’m NOT on the juice. Never have been.
Weather I train to look good naked, does not in any way mean that my training should not be defined as bodybuilding. What if I say that I train to look good on stage for the judges? Is that bodybuilding?
[quote]whoami wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
You don’t like my attitude, I get it. That doesn’t make me wrong, of course, but people can draw their own erroneous conclusions based on something I say and that may halt their progress. I can see that.
-
I’m not dieting now. I’m currently 200 lbs, up from 183 last year. Bodyfat is higher, but I’m fine with that.
-
I don’t train 8x8 anymore, though I still like to come back to that routine occationally.
Not to make this into a ‘me’ thing (movie reference…), but since the ad hominems started coming at me left right and centre, I wanted to clear that up.[/quote]
Of course we don’t like your attitude, I don’t think any serious bodybuilder/aspiring bodybuilder will succeed with your attitude.
6’1 and 200 lbs and you’re already running AAS? C’mon man… I’m 6’4, and i’ve been 252 lbs at my highest, without AAS, and lifting some serious freaking weight. Most people at my height will blame genetics for EVERYTHING, be it lanky or skinny or lever disadvantages, but I didn’t.
Your goals are your goals, but this is in the BB forum for a reason. The “Looking good naked” so you can post in the RMP mindset is NOT bodybuilding.
And please, Don’t bring that whole elitist “You dumb god worshipping Americans” bullshit in here. By your negative mindset and overall bad attitude towards REAL progress, you’ve already proven that you have your head up your ass, so don’t take it out and spew shit all over the place.
[/quote]
Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I’m NOT on the juice. Never have been.
Weather I train to look good naked, does not in any way mean that my training should not be defined as bodybuilding. What if I say that I train to look good on stage for the judges? Is that bodybuilding?[/quote]
Yes, it is. The bodybuilding forum (TO ME) refers to the SPORT of bodybuilding. It’s a compteition.
I don’t know why most people in here think that lifting weights in general = bodybuilding.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
One of the things that Mike Mentzer once said that really stuck with me, was the fact that you won’t EVER know your genetic potential unless you do everything you can trying to reach it.
In my personal opinion, the worst thing that ever happened to recreational (not competitive!) bodybuilding, was the coining of the term ‘hardgainer’. Once you label yourself as someone who doesn’t make progress as well as most people, you’re setting yourself up for crap results. I prefer to think that with sufficicent drive and determination, you can surpass someone getting by on natural talent (to a certain degree of course -lol).
Am I ever going to step onstage at a ripped and shredded 250 lbs? Pretty doubtful, BUT I don’t train with any less intensity because of that realization. Too many people accept limitations that they’ve already put on themselves from the get go. I think this is why most people fail and end up with the “he must be on roids cuz he looks better than me” mentality.
S[/quote]
Agreed. And if people actually watched/read Jeff Willet’s interviews, or heard him speak at events, then they would probably come to the same realization: Hard work + Smart Nutrition = Great Drug Free Results.
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]whoami wrote:
You don’t like my attitude, I get it. That doesn’t make me wrong, of course, but people can draw their own erroneous conclusions based on something I say and that may halt their progress. I can see that.
-
I’m not dieting now. I’m currently 200 lbs, up from 183 last year. Bodyfat is higher, but I’m fine with that.
-
I don’t train 8x8 anymore, though I still like to come back to that routine occationally.
Not to make this into a ‘me’ thing (movie reference…), but since the ad hominems started coming at me left right and centre, I wanted to clear that up.[/quote]
Of course we don’t like your attitude, I don’t think any serious bodybuilder/aspiring bodybuilder will succeed with your attitude.
6’1 and 200 lbs and you’re already running AAS? C’mon man… I’m 6’4, and i’ve been 252 lbs at my highest, without AAS, and lifting some serious freaking weight. Most people at my height will blame genetics for EVERYTHING, be it lanky or skinny or lever disadvantages, but I didn’t.
Your goals are your goals, but this is in the BB forum for a reason. The “Looking good naked” so you can post in the RMP mindset is NOT bodybuilding.
And please, Don’t bring that whole elitist “You dumb god worshipping Americans” bullshit in here. By your negative mindset and overall bad attitude towards REAL progress, you’ve already proven that you have your head up your ass, so don’t take it out and spew shit all over the place.
[/quote]
Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. I’m NOT on the juice. Never have been.
Weather I train to look good naked, does not in any way mean that my training should not be defined as bodybuilding. What if I say that I train to look good on stage for the judges? Is that bodybuilding?[/quote]
Yes, it is. The bodybuilding forum (TO ME) refers to the SPORT of bodybuilding. It’s a compteition.
I don’t know why most people in here think that lifting weights in general = bodybuilding.
[/quote]
It’s not just that way to you…it should be that way to everyone here. If you do not have a goal of looking anything at all in some way or another like a bodybuilder (off season or on season) then you are in the wrong forum.
This is not the “everyone who picks up a weight” forum, the “I train MMA and gymnastics but why won’t my biceps grow” forum, or the “I’m skinny as hell because I convinced myself my genetic limit is 150lbs” forum.
This is the BODYBUILDING FORUM, so if you do not have the goal of getting really big muscles, please go elsewhere or some of your posts will be deleted.
[quote]Sarev0k wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
One of the things that Mike Mentzer once said that really stuck with me, was the fact that you won’t EVER know your genetic potential unless you do everything you can trying to reach it.
In my personal opinion, the worst thing that ever happened to recreational (not competitive!) bodybuilding, was the coining of the term ‘hardgainer’. Once you label yourself as someone who doesn’t make progress as well as most people, you’re setting yourself up for crap results. I prefer to think that with sufficicent drive and determination, you can surpass someone getting by on natural talent (to a certain degree of course -lol).
Am I ever going to step onstage at a ripped and shredded 250 lbs? Pretty doubtful, BUT I don’t train with any less intensity because of that realization. Too many people accept limitations that they’ve already put on themselves from the get go. I think this is why most people fail and end up with the “he must be on roids cuz he looks better than me” mentality.
S[/quote]
Agreed. And if people actually watched/read Jeff Willet’s interviews, or heard him speak at events, then they would probably come to the same realization: Hard work + Smart Nutrition = Great Drug Free Results.
[/quote]
does anyone else notice the crazy seperation in the pectorals? in no way am i saying this negatively but it seems like that seperation is very common with a lot of natural bbs.
[quote]mikedefran wrote:
does anyone else notice the crazy seperation in the pectorals? in no way am i saying this negatively but it seems like that seperation is very common with a lot of natural bbs. [/quote]
Steroids don’t have anything to do with genetic muscle insertions. Stop looking to connect dots that don’t have anything to do with each other.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]mikedefran wrote:
does anyone else notice the crazy seperation in the pectorals? in no way am i saying this negatively but it seems like that seperation is very common with a lot of natural bbs. [/quote]
Steroids don’t have anything to do with genetic muscle insertions. Stop looking to connect dots that don’t have anything to do with each other.[/quote]
someone is taking this a bit too personally. its concerning that a post not directied to any one person can make you so upset. and where you got muscle insertion from i have no idea. im talking about seperation between major and minor pectoralis. if you dont see any correlation, dont say anything.
[quote]mikedefran wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]mikedefran wrote:
does anyone else notice the crazy seperation in the pectorals? in no way am i saying this negatively but it seems like that seperation is very common with a lot of natural bbs. [/quote]
Steroids don’t have anything to do with genetic muscle insertions. Stop looking to connect dots that don’t have anything to do with each other.[/quote]
someone is taking this a bit too personally. its concerning that a post not directied to any one person can make you so upset. and where you got muscle insertion from i have no idea. im talking about seperation between major and minor pectoralis. if you dont see any correlation, dont say anything. [/quote]
LOL @ another clown trying to interpret human emotion through two lines of text. High five
BTW you cant see the pec minor unless you dissect the body and remove the pec major. So any person with a knowledge of anatomy assumed you were talking about the separation between the left pec major and right pec major.
edited
[quote]mikedefran wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]mikedefran wrote:
does anyone else notice the crazy seperation in the pectorals? in no way am i saying this negatively but it seems like that seperation is very common with a lot of natural bbs. [/quote]
Steroids don’t have anything to do with genetic muscle insertions. Stop looking to connect dots that don’t have anything to do with each other.[/quote]
someone is taking this a bit too personally. its concerning that a post not directied to any one person can make you so upset. and where you got muscle insertion from i have no idea. im talking about seperation between major and minor pectoralis. if you dont see any correlation, dont say anything. [/quote]
I’m sorry, but what are you talking about? What words in my post elude to ANYTHING AT ALL about me taking something personally or even being upset? Between the both of us, I am going to go out on a limb and assume that I have at least enough medical training to be able to comment on how muscles are put together and the stimulus that creates them. How are you seeing this guy’s “pec minor”? Steroids do NOT change genetic muscle shape either since the word “insertion” caused you to become upset.
I just want to show some people a comparison of Jeff Willet to Jay Cutler, because they are only an inch apart in height and both IFBB pros.
Jeff Willet:
Height: 5’8
Contest Weight: 198 1/2 lbs