poor hip mobility leads to poor glute function
poor glute function leads to poor jump and sprinting. Plus your hamstrings and lower back will try and take over do most of the work —> injury waiting to happen
start concentrated with massage, foam rolling and release work and go from there
low back tucking = tight glutes and hips
see it’s all related, a domino effect!
[quote]DjSm28 wrote:
I know it’s hard to tell, but if I shifted to more explosive stuff and put my strength on maintainance, my speed and vert would max out around what? BTW, another thing I need help with is getting down to ATG squat. I think I have a long femur, and its hard for me to get down into ATG without rounding my back. I will admit, I do need to work on my flexibility too.[/quote]
well if you can’t recruit your glutes properly when you jump and sprint, your feet are not functioning well, and you can’t move properly, it won’t matter.
It’s like your trying to race a car with worn tires and bad suspension
from my experince, lower back rounding = tight glutes
see page 2
hmmm unknotting the muscles is what release work does?
how do you know when ur glutes are properly activated? i can flex each pretty easily quickly but my hamstrings i cannot.
Kinda similar to the post above me. I get sore in my glute more then anything, so I’m pretty sure they’re taking the brunt of the work. However, I hardly ever get my hamstrings sore. I think, like you said CoolColJ, I just have to improve my movement efficiency so I can learn to put my strength to use. Also, another thing kind of holding me back from ATG squatting is my knee still having some pain once in a while from ACL reconstruction. I feel a lot less stress on it when trying to sit back rather then down.
That brings me to my next question. A lot of powerlifters say they like the fact that people can olympic squat, but wouldn’t have their athletes do them for training. Any ideas behind why?
Release work is basic knowledge. How about you guys research and know the basics before you even get deeper into this.
It’s like your driving a car without a license!
If you doing weights you need to do this stuff at least ocne a week, to keep scar tissue and adhesion build up down. And stay loose and mobile. It’s like servicing for a car. A formula racing car needs a lot more of it than a family car for shopping
download and read - by Mike Robertson
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/coolcolj/Temp/Self-Myofascial%20Release,%20Purpose,%20Methods%20and%20Techniques.pdf
and Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson has tons of resources and articles on this very site, on this stuff and hip mobility/glute activation. Search and read
Well I myself sit back and down when low bar full squatting. Still have no issue getting below parallel, but your knees have to go forward, It’s about balance.
And if you have issue with knees going forward then why are you even running and jumping?! That’s like over 10xBW in forces on your knee on every foot strike…
It looks like yous quat with high bar as well, which stresses the knee a lot more
Try low bar squats and it makes it easier to sit back as well.
it’s not about recruiting glutes when you weight training, but when you jump and sprint.
Like I said I’m no expert on it, but I do know it when I see it, when someone jumps and runs. Like they put a lot of effort into the movement, but the expected amount of thrust and hip extension doesn’t materialise.
When you sprint a dn do jumps/plyos there is no spring, because your muscles don’t lock up fast and let the tendons snap. It’s all muschy looking if you know what I mean.
It all starts with the feet and then onto the hips/glute
This is what separates the haves and have nots. All the strength and power work in the world won’t help if you can’t use it properly
there’s a few resources out there
read the articles here
and a good read about this
I am a pretty avid squatter. The best I ever got up to, pound for pound, was 500 at 198 pounds. I ran a mile every night, and power cleaned some. I was definitely a better person for it.
I am trying to surpass that pound for pound right now. I want to go above and beyond 3x bodyweight though. My split is monday, wednesday, friday. I squat on monday and friday, three sets. I deadlift on wednesday. three sets. I don’t do any more than that. my rep range I work with is 10,8,6,… 5,5,5,… and 3,3,3. For deadlift I always do 5,5,5,.
But the thing I do before every workout, for three sets, monday, wednesday, and friday, is a variation of power clean. I think it’s the best way to maintain athleticism while trying to pursue strength. I believe, based upon my personal experience, that your goal is within reach.
If you followed my split exactly, You would run on tuesday, thursday, and saturday. I simply run 4 endurance sprints as long as I can maintain correct form, then I stop. Between sprints I will do depth jumps, maybe 50 or so. Then proceed to the next sprint.
Hope I helped, and trust me, the thing people do most often is to UNDERESTIMATE themselves.
and remember, consistency is the key. working hard three days a week and not eating right and half-assing all your cardio and skipping workouts will not bring you success. Even if you’re tired as shit and want to die, do it anyway. You will be a better man for it.
I bet that anybody who can squat 3 times their body weight can jump like the cats ass.
I could dunk at 5.9… 195.
Also, if you try to use cleans to improve your vert, remember that training for cleans is totally different than what you see on tv. When you train for a clean you pull it up and catch it in at least a quarter squat. Landing in a butt to calf squat every time makes the actual power clean part of the movement irrelevant, and it’s simply based upon back and leg strength and speed as it pertains to going DOWN, not up.
It’s just like using a bench shirt. You woul dbe stupid to train with it, it’s just for maxing out. and depth jumps and single leg jumps are the way to go.
as far as ATG squatting, because I just noticed you said something about it, i tried it myself because it has become such a highly respected way to squat, only the few and the proud.
I logged my results. the verdict was that I became weaker. Noticeably weaker, and quick too. It didn’t take some long drawn out time, i mean almost instantly. It may have something to do with my pelvis ducking under at the bottom of the movement, but since I start going just below parallel again my strength, speed, and power cleans shot way up. thank the Lord, because I was beginning to think I had lost it all.
So you would advise to stay away from ATG squatting if wanting to improve strength? I almost feel the same way actually. I feel that squats to parallel help all other squats, but if I used ATG squats to improve my strength, I don’t think I’d be able to squat 365lbs to parallel anymore. Perhaps I’m wrong. Maybe I just need to experiment more. I’m beginning to think that Louie Simmons is right about box squats. Train with box squats, and test with whatever counts for you.
I don’t necessarily know much about box squats, because I have never done them. I don’t like how most guys I see at the gym sit all the way down on their ass. That can’t be good for your spine, but yes, Three weeks ago, I had lost all my strength from ATG squats. I could barely squat 365. Today I performed a set of three with 405, and last week when I did the same three rep workout I finished with 385. I believe that power is generated by staying around the actual knee bend that you would perform in sports, i.e. no more than just below parallel.
And yes, Simmons is a smart man. And seeing as how what counts to you is being able to jump higher, which is also my main goal, and seeing as how we have basically the same frame, I would advise the parallel.
When I perform my monday wednesday friday heavy legs, I almost always do Innosport style training on Tuesdays, thursdays, and saturdays.
This usually consists of:
Depth jumps, just off of about 2 feet max.
bounds, basically an exaggerated run and every time you land on your foot you explode as hard as you can and jump as high as you can.
Also, what’s crucial is still being able to perform a ATG squat with one leg and no weight. You will probably have to start off with something to hold on to, but I think that if you worked up to being able to perform just one set every other night of 10 reps each leg you will notice the difference. You don’t need a gym to do it. When i do mine, I simply do it while I’m doing my homework as a short break. It works out your knee really well.
I injured myself being stupid to the point where my knee would lock up and I would fall on my ass if I tried to go below parallel, as in, my knee could not physically move beyond 90 degrees. I rehabbed it myself with single leg squats and sets of 100 bodyweight squats, ATG, but that’s the only reason and way I use ATG, for knee health and stability.
what makes depth and single leg jumps superior to all the rest?
and obviously cardio is good for health reasons but what’s its specific benefit to jumping?
[quote]kickureface wrote:
and obviously cardio is good for health reasons but what’s its specific benefit to jumping?[/quote]
Its a really good method of recovery and overall conditioning.
[quote]kickureface wrote:
what makes depth and single leg jumps superior to all the rest?
and obviously cardio is good for health reasons but what’s its specific benefit to jumping?[/quote]
I don’t consider then superior, they are just the jumps I use when I run at night. I workout during the day, but on my non-weight days I have to squeeze running in whenever I can, and those two are the best ones that I can do anywhere. Depth jumps on the benches in the quad of my school, and bounds you can do anywhere.
But if I had more time on my hands, some others I would do are:
Jumping out of a lunge stance, landing in one, plyometric style.
basically any jump where you jump as quickly as you can after you touch the ground. I would check out Innosport like someone said earlier. They have some really good stuff.
Another cardio workout that I try and do is to go in the basketball gym, run between the three goals on one side of the gym, jump off my left foot and touch rim, then go to the next and jump off my right, then go to the next and jump off both.
As for cardio helping jumping ability, I am not sure if there is any, all I know is that for me to maintain my jumping, I have to maintain my weight, and since all my workouts revolve around helping me perform better in the field, I can’t simply NOT do cardio.
Dj, this is a great site to check out if you want further info about the vertical jump: http://www.theverticalsummit.com/
[quote]Bloobird wrote:
Dj, this is a great site to check out if you want further info about the vertical jump: http://www.theverticalsummit.com/ [/quote]
I check that site out all the time. I appreciate you bringing it up though. I like asking multiple places about their opinions.
[quote]DjSm28 wrote:
Both. Depends on the situation. Rebounding and trying to touch as high as I can, I’m a two legged jumper. Fast breaks and on the drive, I’m a one foot jumper.[/quote]
YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY SPORTS SPECIFIC DYNAMIC EFFORT
1.) dunk 10 times left hand 10 times right hand alternating
2.) then dunk 10 times two hands two feet
3.) then do all your trick dunks
4.) finish by trying to dunk from a sprint from as far out as possible
this was a warm up used EVERY day before playing basketball and it really isn’t too much volume and it hones coordination and learnng to jump with the ball and learning to control the ball and time your swipe at the rim…really good stuff for in air ball skills too
[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
Bottom line:
KEEP RAISING YOUR RELATIVE STRENGTH ALONG WITH YOUR EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH.
You can either focus doing a westside type template (with minimal high rep work) or focus mainly on improving with the olympic lifts (or any of its variations… and make sure you squat. Every generic weightlifting program has you squatting.)
P.S. = It doesn’t have to be a back squat. Heck, you can improve your vertical by doing zercher squats!
P.P.S. = 80% of the power output in a vertical jump COMES FROM THE POSTERIOR CHAIN!
Don’t forget the quads though.
Yes. They make up the other 20% I think…
[/quote]
Haha. Holy shit. This is pure gold.
So what you’re telling me is that a loosely defined group of muscles that comprises the ENTIRE backside of the body and a large amount of total muscle mass is responsible for a great deal of power output? Holy fucking revelations Batman!
OP, in my opinion (which doesn’t count for much on this subject because I can barely even jump rope) the three things required for improving your jumping would be 1) higher limit strength 2) greater ROF development and 3) improved jumping technique. This is all obvious stuff, and that’s why I feel confident posting it. However, I do not feel confident using any metaphors involving meat. That’s just weird.
A 3x bodyweight raw squat is substantially gangster, even moreso if it’s one of these mythical “ATG” squats I keep hearing about.