Decent Squat But Poor Vertical

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
1

Hi all - I haven’t posted very much on this site, but have been lurking for a while. I know that there are many threads about vertical leap, but I decided to start a new thread because I believe my problem may be the opposite of that which the majority of people looking to increase their vert have.

First some background information - I am 18 years old, 5’11 - 6’,about 205 pounds, and have been training for about 3 years. My lift numbers pertinent to vertical leap are a 415 squat (deep, but not quite ass on my heels), a 515 deadlift, 265 power clean, and a 180 power snatch. My vert, however, is abysmal, 24-26 inches depending on the day.

Everything I’ve read says that a double bodyweight squat should equal around a 30 inch vert, but no matter how many plyos I do my vert refuses to budge. I’ve looked over all of DeFranco’s “Dirty Tricks” for the vert, and have spent a good deal of time on my form. Does anyone here have any insight into what could be causing the problem, or perhaps a good plyometric program (it’s awfully hard to wade through the bullshit that a google search produces for vert programs)?

Thanks very much.

2

deload, put the squat on low frequency, low volume maintenance. Get rid of eveyrthing else.

practise jumping with full recovery between reps, trying for personal records, stop the session when no longer feel fresh enough to jump well. Repeat after a few days rest
Keep ths going until no improvement shows for a good few weeks
I think practising running and 1-3 step jumps
also help the standing jump.

nothing else really needed, unless you have issue firing certain important musclegroups like the glute when jumping or other muscle balance issues. Or maybe your jump technique needs a lot of work. Have a video of your jumping?

there are people who aren’t the best athletes, and bodybuilders who do nothing epxlosive. And yet they all improve their VJ well into the mid to upper 30s doing just that, building horsepower by upping the squat and then deload and working on jump training

3

Try these.It will help you fire correctly. You don’t need chains but if you can do a bunch easy I’d add some weight to them.

Another is to sit on a box like 13" tall and explode from there into a jump for height and you can do a broad jump this way as well.

Westside had a football player come in and do these and they said he started to jump out of the gym.

4

Have you checked out Kelly Baggett new article?

5

cool link, thx

6

Yeah. You gotta practice jumping more. Do you do any jump training at all? I’m sure if you did depth jumps for 2 weeks, you could put an inch or 2 on your jump.

7

Speaking of, DjSm28, could you give a little background on your avatar?

It is pretty amazing.

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[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Speaking of, DjSm28, could you give a little background on your avatar?

It is pretty amazing.[/quote]

that’s Spud Webb, 5’7" NBA player

he was good in his day, but these days, there are guys jumping far higher at the same height or taller. Talking about top of head to forehead level to rim type hops for guys in the 5’7" to 6’3" range :slight_smile:

plenty fo examples on Youtube

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Thanks!

10

Thanks for all the advice - good stuff.

Cool - putting the squat on low volume and low frequency sounds like a good idea. I’ve done a fair amount of jump specific training, but I never altered my squat routine while doing so. Since I typically do quite a bit of squatting, 2x a week for both front and back squats, lowering the volume would probably be a good idea.

Riverhawk - I’ve done both of those exercises, I use the jumps from a seated position fairly regularly (they have helped me be more comfortable in my form quite a bit). I’ve done the kneeling jumps, but never heard any testimonial to them so I never really incorporated them into my program, which I’ll definitely start doing. Since I have no access to chains, do you think that a light barbell would be an acceptable subsitute?

Molina - thanks for the link, the program seems really useful.

11

Yeah from what I understand they are just a variation of a kneeling clean and jerk.You put the barbell in front and then jump into the low front squat position. Im sure dumbbells or a weighted vest would work just as well.

12

[quote]riverhawk23 wrote:
Try these.It will help you fire correctly. You don’t need chains but if you can do a bunch easy I’d add some weight to them.

Another is to sit on a box like 13" tall and explode from there into a jump for height and you can do a broad jump this way as well.

Westside had a football player come in and do these and they said he started to jump out of the gym.

[/quote]

kneeling jumps are stupid…

i dont see how anyone could get immediate vert increases on such a pointless exercise…

can someone explain?

they do look cool though!!!

13

[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
deload, put the squat on low frequency, low volume maintenance. Get rid of eveyrthing else.

practise jumping with full recovery between reps, trying for personal records, stop the session when no longer feel fresh enough to jump well. Repeat after a few days rest
Keep ths going until no improvement shows for a good few weeks
I think practising running and 1-3 step jumps
also help the standing jump.

nothing else really needed, unless you have issue firing certain important musclegroups like the glute when jumping or other muscle balance issues. Or maybe your jump technique needs a lot of work. Have a video of your jumping?

there are people who aren’t the best athletes, and bodybuilders who do nothing epxlosive. And yet they all improve their VJ well into the mid to upper 30s doing just that, building horsepower by upping the squat and then deload and working on jump training[/quote]

none of the bodybuilder’s you’ve ever posted “deload and work on jump training”… they just jump in the gym one day, upload it to youtube, then go back to bodybuilding.

the OP’s problem probably is a little more complicated than deload and jump.

peace

14

[quote]Thantophobia wrote:
Thanks for all the advice - good stuff.

Cool - putting the squat on low volume and low frequency sounds like a good idea. I’ve done a fair amount of jump specific training, but I never altered my squat routine while doing so. Since I typically do quite a bit of squatting, 2x a week for both front and back squats, lowering the volume would probably be a good idea.

Riverhawk - I’ve done both of those exercises, I use the jumps from a seated position fairly regularly (they have helped me be more comfortable in my form quite a bit). I’ve done the kneeling jumps, but never heard any testimonial to them so I never really incorporated them into my program, which I’ll definitely start doing. Since I have no access to chains, do you think that a light barbell would be an acceptable subsitute?

Molina - thanks for the link, the program seems really useful.
[/quote]

what special jumping exercises have you done?

kneeling jumps and seated box jumps etc are pretty pointless IMO.

depth jumps, stiff leg angle hops (optionally weighted), learning to bound, lateral barrier jumps are pretty much all you need.

depth jumps are by far the most effective ive seen… and the stiff leg ankle hops really improve your plantar flexion, which is so very important… everyone acts like calfs dont do anything.

peace

15

Indeed. That is Spud Webb on my avatar. He had amazing relative strength.

And I’m going to have to agree about cutting back on squats. They’re very draining, at least to me. Cutting back will make it so you can concentrate on the jumps more.

16

[quote]adarqui wrote:
kneeling jumps are stupid…

i dont see how anyone could get immediate vert increases on such a pointless exercise…

can someone explain?

they do look cool though!!! [/quote]

Immediate no, unless you are not activating everything properly. But over time with added weight it can increase explosiveness. Though I guess if you do heavy squats it should not really matter. Adarqui don’t you have a log or something up with excerises you do, to help this kid out because you are the one with the ups around here.

17

I’ve heard Louie Simmons talk about how kneeling jumps really help jumping abliity so on a level of listening to someone who is incredibly knowledgeable, I’m going to have to day that their good. I have no personal experience with them though.

As far as seated box jumps, I’m going to have to say that they work. I know my best rebounding days were when I was doing them. In my opinion, they greatly help explosiveness. I also think there are other things you could do to help explosiveness, but I would say seated box jumps are a good exercise to have in your toolbox.

18

[quote]riverhawk23 wrote:
adarqui wrote:
kneeling jumps are stupid…

i dont see how anyone could get immediate vert increases on such a pointless exercise…

can someone explain?

they do look cool though!!!

Immediate no, unless you are not activating everything properly. But over time with added weight it can increase explosiveness. Though I guess if you do heavy squats it should not really matter. Adarqui don’t you have a log or something up with excerises you do, to help this kid out because you are the one with the ups around here.[/quote]

i have a log on theverticalsummit…

i mean i have improved my ups alot… no where near what i want yet… but i have helped others improve their ups alot also - we never do anything fancy… just improve squat and true plyos…

people may consider true plyos fancy, but i do not… fancy exercises are things like kneeling jumps, reactive jumps where you drop db’s as you land, box jumps in general if they aren’t ME attempts…

the fundamentals to me are;

  • squat
  • double leg jumpers: depth jumps for max height (not onto boxes or over hurdles)
  • single leg jumpers: single leg bounding drills

accessory fundamentals:

  • reactive squat
  • stiff leg ankle hops (optionally weighted)
  • lateral barrier jumps

i was waiting for the OP’s reply to what special exercises he has done… to know his level of experience with dj’s etc…

but basically, just like anything, you just need to master those simple exercises…

so for someone with his kind of explosive strength deficit, it could be as simple as;

day1:

  • warmup
  • warmup to a max SVJ
  • SVJ - 3-5 MAX ATTEMPTS, try to PR
  • 18" DJ : 2x10 TRY TO PR ON EVERY JUMP
  • squat: 1x5
  • rest 5 minute, while re-warming up for the stiff leg ankle hops
  • stiff leg ankle hops: 2x10
  • reverse hyper/core/done

day 2:

  • warmup
  • warmup to a max drop step SVJ
  • drop step SVJ - 3-5 MAX ATTEMPTS, try to PR
  • 18" DJ : 2x5 TRY TO PR ON EVERY JUMP
  • lateral barrier jump : 2x10each side
  • squat - whatever
  • rest 5 minute, while re-warming up for the stiff leg ankle hops
  • stiff leg ankle hops max height: 3x5 weighted (20 lb. or so)
  • reverse hyper/core/done

once you get good at dj’s etc… you can then start playing with increasing the box height, playing with volumes, etc… and playing with things like;

day 1;

  • …
  • 18" dj 2x10
  • …

day 2;

  • …
  • 24" dj 2-3x5
  • …

performing dj’s with proper form is a must though… it should basically be a quarter squat, chest up, head up, with proper timing of the arm swing.

i dont think just jumping will get his vert up much if he has already been doing that…

peace man

19

Remember, just like speed and quickness, your vertical is partially genetic. Squat is a good way to improve it, however, focus more on your oly lifts. Hang cleans, Snatches, etc. Box jumps are great too. before testing try stretching your hip flexors thoroughly, this is where a lot your power comes from.

-also, one legged squats are great! as are step ups/downs.

20

The best jumper I’ve ever seen is my training partner. At 165 he can full squat somewhere around 430-450, quarter squat over 600, hang clean 300. He’s got ridiculous top end strength.

Now, whether that makes him a good jumper or if he can do that because he’s a good jumper I don’t know.

Also, from reading Bondarchuk’s book, I think jumping is more related to your half squat than your full squat. Do you have a gangster half squat?