I Don't Get It, But Okay 🤷‍♂️

[unreal24278]

@Njord

Carnivore diet - you’re an omnivore. Case closed. Legitimately thought yall were smarter than the next short lived trend.

I have a problem with this diet

Look at how many cases reports exist of people switching to carnivore only to wind up with brutally fucked up cholesterol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Cholesterol/comments/14i4csh/i_have_been_on_a_strict_carnivore_diet_for_130/?rdt=49116

This is the most extreme case I could find and the guy likely has some form of familial hypercholesterolemia/ primary inherited dyslipidemia

But I can post case reports of normal guys going on this diet only to find their LDL doubles in three months going from 100mg/dl to 200mg/dl

Perhaps genetic susceptibility to dietary mediated lipid alteration plays a role but the mere fact it has the POTENTIAL to do this screams “not healthy” to me

While it isn’t an exact science e.g my aunt with FH smoked a pack a day and had an LDL of 200mg/dl + on statins only to die at 75 from lung cancer last year (it was brutal… Really awful stuff watching some die from lung cancer in hospital… Like an anti smoking PSA in real time… Then my mom got cancer dammit). Her LDL was actually over 400 without statins no joke!

Jewish/Afrikaner genes. Peak bad lipid genes.

there’s no way the carnivore diet is healthy…

The other one I couldn’t understand was that dumbass the “liver king”

How did he not die from vitamin A toxicity?

[T3hPwnisher]

I like how this went from “I don’t get it but ok” to “I don’t get it and its NOT ok”

[OTay]

@unreal24278

But I can post case reports of normal guys going on this diet only to find their LDL doubles in three months going from 100mg/dl to 200mg/dl

And? People are still fear mongering over Cholesterol? There is much more to it.

Half of Americans are fat/obese. Sure, let’s keep doing what we are doing, the pharmaceutical companies will love it…

[Njord]

@unreal24278

But I can post case reports of normal guys going on this diet only to find their LDL doubles in three months going from 100mg/dl to 200mg/dl

Yes, and the argument will be “cholesterol values don’t matter”.

The diet relies on literally gaslighting all of its shortcomings and hard selling people with poorly proven, but confidently sold, pseudoscience.

But that’s ok.

[SkyzykS]

@EmilyQ

I would read to a random child no problem unless it was visibly filthy, lol. I love the exchanged looks after an exciting or funny sentence, and adore the process of settling in together for it.

I’ve always loved this too. I’m not like a totally nurturing type, and in some ways kinda cold, but I’ve always gotten a good feeling from reading to my neices & nephews and son. My one neice was so adorable, the way she would cuddle up in my flank and settle in for a story.

[Njord]

@T3hPwnisher

It’s different when it’s your own. The biological imperative is strong

x2.

I didn’t even want kids but loved my wife enough to do it, and now being a dad is my favorite thing I’ve ever done.

[Brant_Drake]

@unreal24278

the guy likely has some form of familial hypercholesterolemia/ primary inherited dyslipidemia

So an outlier. And his triglycerides are high also, which makes me wonder what his diet actually was.

@unreal24278

my aunt with FH smoked a pack a day . . . only to die at 75 from lung cancer.

I’m sorry for her and your family, but what does cholesterol have to do with this?

@unreal24278

The other one I couldn’t understand was that dumbass the “liver king”

How did he not die from vitamin A toxicity?

He was a dumbass. But he did eat rice, potatoes, and salads. And $11k worth of anabolic a month, that might be relevant.

Also raw liver has less vit A than cooked, and I suspect he was just eating it and the testicles for the camera.

@T3hPwnisher

“I don’t get it but ok” to “I don’t get it and its NOT ok”

It was only a matter of time.

[unreal24278]

@OTay

And? People are still fear mongering over Cholesterol? There is much more to it.

Except cholesterol actually does matter

Lipid subfractions, HDL to LDL ratio, HDL/trig ratio etc

Lp(a) concentration

A pro-atherogenic lipid profile is STRONGLY correlated with myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular infarction, venous thromboembolism (which can cause DVT or PE), peripheral artery disease… I can go on and on and on

There are huge, huge studies dictating cutoff values. In almost no circumstance is doubling LDL without an adjacent large increase in HDL going to be healthy long term.

[OTay]

This has nothing to do with eating a carnivore diet. The cholesterol myth has been fought against for many years.

Listen to Dr. Aseem Malhotra.

[unreal24278]

@Brant_Drake

an outlier.

Except I can post many, many cases of healthy people developing concerningly high LDL on a carnivore diet

I was just looking at one where a young guys LDL went from something like 116 to over 180

And many, many, many cases where men wind up with LDL of 180+

I’d understand 150 and saying “healthy lifestyle, decent subfractions, high HDL, it’s passable”

180+ is the kind of LDL you’d expect on a steroid cycle. There is just no way it’s healthy long term.

Other issues with the carnivore diet

• lack of fibre
• potential vitamin deficiency

Just a quote from Wikipedia (and they list sources behind this claim)

“It also raises levels of LDL cholesterol, which increases the risk of cardiovascular disease.[4] While carnivore diets exclude fruits and vegetables which supply micronutrients, they are also low in dietary fiber, possibly causing constipation.[4][7][5] A carnivore diet high in red meat increases the risks of colon cancer and gout.[7][28][29] The high protein intake of a carnivore diet can lead to impaired kidney function.[30]”

It’s psuedoscience… Who falls for this stuff? Why torture yourself only to increase risk of heart disease, nutritional deficiency and cause constipation?

[unreal24278]

@OTay

Listen to Dr. Aseem Malhotra.

This guy is an anti vaxxer known for spreading misinformation in order to make a quick buck.

His claims are not compatible with the massive breadth of data available surrounding cholesterol and can be easily debunked.

I understand some people believe they are renegade free thinkers (and in some cases they actually are) but when vehemently pressing against a heavily engrained scientific construct please take a hard look at the literature available

Biology/physiology isn’t malleable like “social sciences” aka bullshit… It’s hard to bullshit biology, anatomy and physiology.

It’s like how the people against covid vaccines often don’t actually understand how the vaccines work (which is fair enough as vaccine are somewhat complicated, mRNA vaccines even more so)

But I wish people would learn about what they tend to push against before forming hard and fast conclusions.

If someone (not you) doesn’t have the time to learn (learning about cholesterol shouldn’t take longer than a few hours)… They shouldn’t claim an opinion as fact. I’m happy to debate you on this subject.

If I have a hunch I’ll say "I have a suspicion raised LDL might be benign’’

And I’ll say “people with homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia usually die before the age of 25 due to dyslipidemia alone”.

Cholesterol matters.

I will cite my references in apa7 format. Give me your side of the story, try change my mind. I’ve heard what Asseem Malhotra has to say… And I believe he is disingenuous

As a matter of fact I believe he is getting sued by a colleague of his for willfully promoting medical misinformation that cannot be supported by ANY metric of validate literature beyond pseudoscience and while a normal person can promote pseudoscience, when a doctor does so on a large scale it amounts to medical malpractice.

Legal trouble for medical malpractice seriously tarnishes the career of a doctor if the case is serious enough to be made public

Note some doctors make fairly outlandish claims, particularly in the world of orthopaedics where experimental procedures pop up fairly often. Subacromial decompression, thermal capsullorsphy used to be standard procedure in the world of shoulder surgery… Now subacromial decompression is coined (SAD) due to poor outcomes and thermal capsullorsphy has largely been made obsolete as it’s not that effective at tightening the shoulder joint and often led to capsular necrosis

Alternative techniques have been developed with higher success rates

However there was a body of evidence looking at these procedures at one point in time suggesting they may be effective. If a doctor were to suggest thermal capsullorsphy over say… A capsular shift today and the patient had a bad outcome one could credibly consider it to be malpractice.

[SkyzykS]

@unreal24278

Cholesterol matters.

I’ll be the last person to argue against that.

It has transformed from “dietary cholesterol has very little (10%) effect on blood cholesterol”.

To “Cholesterol doesn’t matter and has been debunked”.

Which I don’t get, but thats ok.

[unreal24278]

@SkyzykS

It has transformed from “dietary cholesterol has very little (10%) effect on blood cholesterol

This is generally the case

But unfortunately extreme diets like the carnivore diet can have a more pronounced effect on cholesterol.

[SkyzykS]

I suppose it would. The actual reasons for and mechanisms of cholesterol are often overlooked.

[T3hPwnisher]

@unreal24278

Why torture yourself

That has not been my experience eating this way. Very much the opposite.

[unreal24278]

I often defend the medical community as I once saw them as an impenetrable pillar of knowledge

This year my views fell flat on their face

I understand some doctors are fucking quacks who look to prey on patients

This year I’ve been exposed to bad doctors twice (only two time in my life). Legitimate medical malpractice… In one case involving fraud/explicitly illegal activity.

Both cases were incredibly serious. I can’t give details for obvious reasons as doing so would potentially reveal who I am.

I know first hand SOME doctors can’t be trusted. If the consensus of a medical professional is leap and bounds away from the norm and they aren’t hyper specialised you should probably run or seek a few more opinions…

I’m not going to turn into one of those people who don’t trust doctors and start railing against statins, all medications, vaccines etc.

[anna_5588]

@unreal24278

But unfortunately extreme diets like the carnivore diet can have a more pronounced effect on cholesterol.

I also think genetics matter.

When my dad, grandpa and I eat cholesterol dense foods, their blood cholestrol increases, then decreases when those items are cut out. I don’t think it’s overall calories bc my bloodwork changes without changes in bodyweight or calories. my mum can eat very fatty/cholestrol dense foods and her bloodwork doesn’t change

[ForrestChump]

@unreal24278

It’s like how the people against covid vaccines often don’t actually understand how the vaccines work (which is fair enough as vaccine are somewhat complicated, mRNA vaccines even more so)

SAFE AND EFFECTIVE!!! ESPECIALLY FOR CHILDREN!

MRNA vaccines have a 50+ year track record of safety and efficacy, you’d be an idiot not to trust the science.

[SkyzykS]

@unreal24278

This year I’ve been exposed to bad doctors twice

Damn. Sorry to hear that.

@unreal24278

I’m not going to turn into one of those people

Good. We have enough of those.

Subtlety and nuance my man. What helps me hurts you & so on.

[ForrestChump]

Sorry bro, i forgot you cant detect sarcasm.