Once you’re at the point where you’re military pressing your body weight for a few reps, you’ll start to feel better about your delts.
Get there.
[quote]goya wrote:
How much weight are you handling on the military press?
I never gained in the shoulders until I started going heavy and to failure. If you are doing countless reps with a low weight (say less than 115 pounds)
My advice is always to try something opposite of what was not giving results. In your case, you might want to try to do 1 hard set of military press to failure in the 6 rep range followed by 2-3 rest pause reps. Follow that with side laterals stage reps i.e. work the top 1/2 part of the movement to failure then the bottom part to failure in the 8 rep range. That’s it.
I seriously doubt doing more volume would help here as your volume level is pretty high already.
[/quote]
i usually press an average of 125 for 6-8 reps for the first two then lower weight for 8-10 for next two, and yeah i do agree the volume is kinda for delts already
Maybe you need to give your shoulders a rest since you’re doing all that stuff. Try resting them for a month then do something like HSS-100 shoulder spec.
[quote]Blongo wrote:
Once you’re at the point where you’re military pressing your body weight for a few reps, you’ll start to feel better about your delts.
Get there.[/quote]
To the OP,
DEFINITELY heed this advice… Strive to up your numbers and I bet you you will grow. I recently got to the point where I can rep my bodyweight on military press for a few reps and I definitely feel better about my shoulders. People ask me sometimes what I do/have done for shoulders and all I’ve really done is standing and sitting overhead pressing with barbells and dumbells. Up that weight!
Ditch all presses. You don’t need them.
Do front, lateral, and rear delt raises only.
LIGHT weights, high reps, peak contraction and slow negatives.
Use the lateral raise machine, incline bench for front and rear delt raises.
Deltoids are very small muscle group compared to scapular elevators (traps) and triceps. What happens when you use heavy weight? Your body recruits the biggest muscles it can find to move that weight. The deltoids will be passed over in favor of larger groups.
my hat’s off to you guys that can straight overhead press your body weight with dumbbells. Using a vertical back seat(no incline) I can rep 180 for 3 sets of 10 with dumbbells. This is a great shoulder workout! Also try pullups and chinups.
As the saying goes, “lift big to get big”… I usually tell this to people who say they cant increase in size. So more than likely you are not lifting enough on each set. You need to be lifting in the range of 5-8…if you can do more than 8 on the set, add weight.
get big brother!
im tryin im tryin
In the moment im doing one or two sets of 4-7 reps, followed by an exercise where i try to get 6-8 for one or two sets, and a set of 20.
PS: if light weights on lateral raises made people’s shoulders big, the housewives that workout at my gym would all have to be renamed Ruhl followed by a number.
PS,2: Maybe for some that is true, but i dont see it often…
I found myself in a similar situation and only recently have I discovered a method that has given me the results i want. I tried many different methods, devoting a day to shoulders. Doing sets and sets of lateral raises. High frequency. BFT.
What i found to work best was a combo between Clean/Jerk. and BB military press lock outs. I generally throw this is with deadlifts, and 1-2 other compound movements for my back.
it looked like this…
Deadlift. 5 sets for 3
Clean and Jerk 5 sets for 3-6
Military Press Lockouts smith or bb with maximal load for 20-30seconds.
generally a row and pullup varition for 5sets of 6-8
this gets my shoulders, back and traps everytime.
Hope that helps.
ps. I forgot to add even if you dont try what i suggest. Deltoids have great response to static motions.
check out the aerobatic ring guys. all they do is hold up there body weight and all of them have awesome delts and general muscle development.
my 2 cents
Here’s a tri-set I’ve used with success:
Seated or standing DB presses: “thumb-side” of DB slightly lower than the “pinkie side”, very erect posture, maintain full ROM, followed by:
upright row with thumbs just outside nipple width, none of that hands together nonsense, followed by:
seated DB laterals, lean slightly forward from vertical, thumbs lower than pinkies (Larry Scott reference: “pouring water from the dumbell”), strict with pause at the top.
IMO the first movement should be heavy yet strict, the last two for slightly higher reps, slower negatives and very strict.
Be wary of overlap as well from chest and back movements when considering weekly volume.
Good luck.
[quote]diamonddelts59 wrote:
i usually press an average of 125 for 6-8 reps for the first two then lower weight for 8-10 for next two, and yeah i do agree the volume is kinda for delts already
[/quote]
I don’t believe lowering the weight on sets 3 and 4 is a good idea. If you need to lower it, you might be using too much for a volume approach. You are kind of doing 2 drop down sets after going to failure or near failure on sets 1 and 2.
125 for 8 reps is good. Focus on adding more weight. You should do a simple test, use 135 pounds and see how many reps you get until failure. If you get more than 4 then I would use that weight and work my way up to more reps. I would only do 1-2 such sets with the same weight.
The shoulder is a small muscle that gets hit a lot in other exercises. The anterior delt gets hit in all pressing movements. The rear delt is involved in a lot of rowing pulling movements as well. Only the side delt needs direct work so there’s no point to over do it on the front and rear delts. Otherwise they never get a chance to rest.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Deltoids are very small muscle group compared to scapular elevators (traps) and triceps. What happens when you use heavy weight? Your body recruits the biggest muscles it can find to move that weight. The deltoids will be passed over in favor of larger groups.[/quote]
maybe if your technique is total garbage. Military pressing does work the triceps, but if done correctly it really involves the anterior delt and side delt (once the bar is over your head).
I suppose you don’t do any pressing and only do flies for the chest.
Try doing overhead squats. This will humble you…beleive me…
and check out this artical
[quote]goya wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Deltoids are very small muscle group compared to scapular elevators (traps) and triceps. What happens when you use heavy weight? Your body recruits the biggest muscles it can find to move that weight. The deltoids will be passed over in favor of larger groups.
maybe if your technique is total garbage. Military pressing does work the triceps, but if done correctly it really involves the anterior delt and side delt (once the bar is over your head).
I suppose you don’t do any pressing and only do flies for the chest.
[/quote]
The upper portion of any press is all triceps. The only time the delts are being worked is at the very bottom of a shoulder press, when the bar is still below the head. Since most people cheat by not taking the bar down all the way, it defeats the purpose of the exercise.
All presses are ego lifts. Completely unnecessary for hypertrophy of any kind. Same with squats, DLs and Olympic lifts (yes, its true).
The deltoids have a specific, biomechanical function: it isn’t pressing, it’s humeral abduction.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
goya wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Deltoids are very small muscle group compared to scapular elevators (traps) and triceps. What happens when you use heavy weight? Your body recruits the biggest muscles it can find to move that weight. The deltoids will be passed over in favor of larger groups.
maybe if your technique is total garbage. Military pressing does work the triceps, but if done correctly it really involves the anterior delt and side delt (once the bar is over your head).
I suppose you don’t do any pressing and only do flies for the chest.
The upper portion of any press is all triceps. The only time the delts are being worked is at the very bottom of a shoulder press, when the bar is still below the head. Since most people cheat by not taking the bar down all the way, it defeats the purpose of the exercise.
All presses are ego lifts. Completely unnecessary for hypertrophy of any kind. Same with squats, DLs and Olympic lifts (yes, its true).
The deltoids have a specific, biomechanical function: it isn’t pressing, it’s humeral abduction.[/quote]
The humerus abducts during an overhead press.
cueball
Stop using barbells. Use dumbbells instead. Your triceps won’t take over as much when using dumbbells. When using DBs, alternate them as you press and keep the elbows out.
I superset Alternate DB Presses with Bent Over Lateral Raises, and the fullness I get throughout my delts is awesome.
[quote]cueball wrote:
The deltoids have a specific, biomechanical function: it isn’t pressing, it’s humeral abduction.
The humerus abducts during an overhead press.
[/quote]
True, but that’s not the only thing that happens.
To focus on anything other than strict abduction for deltoid development is akin to finger tapping Beethoven during a set of squats.
When you perform the strict isolation movement, you end up being able to use 10 times less weight than if you were doing the compound. Common sense should dictate that if your deltoids couldn’t handle 25 lbs. in the lateral raise, there is no way in hell they are going to handle 250 lbs. in the bench or overhead press. In other words, you’re moving the weight using different muscles. That’s called cheating and takes you nowhere closer to big shoulders.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
cueball wrote:
The deltoids have a specific, biomechanical function: it isn’t pressing, it’s humeral abduction.
The humerus abducts during an overhead press.
True, but that’s not the only thing that happens.
To focus on anything other than strict abduction for deltoid development is akin to finger tapping Beethoven during a set of squats.
When you perform the strict isolation movement, you end up being able to use 10 times less weight than if you were doing the compound. Common sense should dictate that if your deltoids couldn’t handle 25 lbs. in the lateral raise, there is no way in hell they are going to handle 250 lbs. in the bench or overhead press. In other words, you’re moving the weight using different muscles. That’s called cheating and takes you nowhere closer to big shoulders.[/quote]
I realize it"s not the only thing that happens. Hip extension isn’t the only thing that happens when you squat. If you’re not careful, you will turn this discussion into iso vs. compouund. I don’t think anybody wants that. It’s been done.
I’m sorry but I cant accept that not overloading your delts with heavy presses won’t cause them to grow. I don’t know anybody other than you to suggest that presses are useless for shoulders. To many have built great shoulders with heavy presses.
cueball
Bodybuilders press in the smith machine using limited ROM. If you’re going to do it, that’s the only method I’d recommend.