He is improving, he must be doing just about everything extremely well
I believe in the philosophy of kaizen (continuous improvement), whether world champion or beginner
From the training info on his website (which is all I have to go on) a lot of top coaches would handle the majority of his conditioning differently
My main point: If his conditioning was done by someone like CW (not just that 1 program zeb), would he be even more impressive? Its hard to imagine, but it would be pretty cool
I do not think he should dedicate more time to increasing his numbers (body part split; 5 days a week vs. full body routine; 2 days)
[quote]bigblue244 wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Back to the orginal topic, I’d wager that the strongest pound for pound, maybe in overall PL total as well, would be Kevin Randleman. He’s trained for his fights with Louie Simmons at WSB. He’s squatted a legit 600 pounds and often does Javorek complexes with 205 pounds. He’s a freaking monster. Just watch him chuck 240 pounds of Fedor like a rag doll.
Good post. He is definately one of the strongest. I’ve also heard that Fujita is an animal in the weightroom as well, and after watching Mark Kerr’s The Smashing Machine Documentary, I’d go out on a limb to say that he was probably amidst the strongest of all MMA competitors while he was competing.[/quote]
Fujita has some of the sicket traps and bigggest necks I’ve ever seen. I love in Pride 10 when Shamrock tried to choke him out with that deep guillotine but Fujita just flexed his neck and chilled there until he gave it up. His whole head was purple. Kerr was a monster. I wonder what kind of weight he could throw around in his prime.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Whopper wrote:
What makes Matt a champ is his dedication, commitment, willpower, and natural ability. What program he follows is so far down the list it’s barely worth thinking about. As long as it’s half way sensible, which obviously it is.
Interesting concept.
So, If conditioning is such a minor factor, why is so much emphasis placed on it?
Are these pros placing inapropriate emphasis on conditioning?
[/quote]
Where did I mention conditioning?
Let me put my point in another way…
“it isn’t what you do, it’s how you do it”
Lets use the system of westside barbell as an example of this. So many people say “oh look at those really strong guys making great gains from westside, I think I’ll give it a go” and then they make pathetic or nonexistant gains, and remain weak. What they actually failed to realise is that the reason the guys at Westside are strong is because they train like animals. The program means absolutely jack shit.
Same applies for what Matt does. He puts his heart and soul into every training session, and gives more of himself than any of you can imagine. It’s as much a mental ordeal as a physical one to put yourself through that on a regular basis, but that’s what it takes to be a champion.
Lets use the system of westside barbell as an example of this. So many people say “oh look at those really strong guys making great gains from westside, I think I’ll give it a go” and then they make pathetic or nonexistant gains, and remain weak. What they actually failed to realise is that the reason the guys at Westside are strong is because they train like animals.
[/quote]
Good point, I totally agree up until the part about the plan not being important. of course the better the plan the better the results (As long as commitiment is equal) but i would rather train with someone who works their arse off at any training program than some trainer genius who half asses it.
Now if you could combine an amazing work ethic and top level programming then it would be VERY interesting to see what sorta gains could be made.
[quote]Whopper wrote:
allow everyone to see how you train.
The fact that you would say this just illustrates the fact that you don’t understand what it takes to get to Matt’s level.
I’m sure he would be perfectly happy to have his exact program freely available. What is someone gonna do? Are they going to start Matt’s exact program and then WHAM a few months later they will be at his level?
I know Andy Bolton’s and Ed Coans exact program, can I deadlift 900lbs? Will I ever deadlift 900lbs? Hell God damn no.
What makes Matt a champ is his dedication, commitment, willpower, and natural ability. What program he follows is so far down the list it’s barely worth thinking about. As long as it’s half way sensible, which obviously it is.
[/quote]
You’re right. I have no idea what it takes to get to his level. And neither do you.
I can imagine that it is a very rare high degree of mental toughness.
However, I still think that it would be inadvisable for anyone to post how they really train.
Case in point, even Fedor does not post his training.
I could be wrong about Matt Hughes. Hell, I really do’nt give a shit how he trains. If I ever get lucky enough to train with him then I’ll know for sure. I just don’t think that people should really believe that page.
From the training info on his website (which is all I have to go on) a lot of top coaches would handle the majority of his conditioning differently[/quote]
The “majority” of his conditioning?
There is much more to conditioning than lifting weights.
I like CW.
[quote]I do not think he should dedicate more time to increasing his numbers (body part split; 5 days a week vs. full body routine; 2 days)
[/quote]
I think he should spend the exact amount of time that he does now. He is an incredible champion. Suggesting that he need to spend more time or effort in the weight room, or change his program to add better one rep strength is…(clears throat) NUTTY!
He’s doing a body part split, which might be optimal for bodybuilding.[/quote]
It also may be optimal for mma. What makes you think that it’s not? Because it’s not in vogue to think such things?
yea…I know. Hughes would be lost if not for people like vortex.
Everyone’s opinion is important to me
I just disagree with it. Tone does not translate well over the Internet.
And as I said you have no idea what is optimal. But I do know that following what seems to be popular might not be the best way to go either.
Hughes is there…he knows what works and he’s not a dumb guy. Hence, I have to think he is doing it right. Unless of course there are some facts and figures coming from others who are at his level and doing it differently. Then again, as we have all seen, it might be one person gains under one program and another under a different one huh?
Yea…as I said anyone can make any sort of dumb comment that they want. And I can respond to that comment. And then you can respond to my comment. And then I can respond to your comment. That’s what message boards are all about. We post back and forth to each other…
No, actually I think he was “spot off” with his comment.
As you state “almost exclusively used for hypertrophy.”
YOU have no idea HOW he actually trains. All you know is that he does a split.
And even if it was used for building muscle YOU have no idea if the man has a problem keeping muscle on his body with all of the cardio and mma training that he does.
You see that’s my point. You and I can second guess Hughes every day for a year and that means what?
He IS the champion. And he apparently KNOWS what he is doing.
The “majority” of his conditioning?
There is much more to conditioning than lifting weights.
I think he should spend the exact amount of time that he does now. He is an incredible champion. Suggesting that he need to spend more time or effort in the weight room, or change his program to add better one rep strength is…(clears throat) NUTTY!
[/quote]
Again, I have never said he NEEDS to do anything. I am HYPOTHESISING.
I was also referring to the LSD cardio, not just the weights.
You think he is bang on. Fair play, he is an awesome athlete. I am hypothesising that a change in his methods COULD make him better.
I agree it is difficult to determine tone over the net.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Back to the orginal topic, I’d wager that the strongest pound for pound, maybe in overall PL total as well, would be Kevin Randleman. He’s trained for his fights with Louie Simmons at WSB. He’s squatted a legit 600 pounds and often does Javorek complexes with 205 pounds. He’s a freaking monster. Just watch him chuck 240 pounds of Fedor like a rag doll.[/quote]
Yes I was trying to do those complexes with 80 kilos, After I read about Randleman doing them. I almost died. Randleman is a monster.
I think the numbers in the Waterbury article on MMA are excessive. The guys I’ve trained with that have max lifts like that carry too much muscle mass and tire quickly. Plus it’s hard to devote that much time to the weights room when you’re training striking, wrestling, grappling and MMA.
First of all. All fighters…DONT even lift. PERIOD. Fedor trains with kettlebells, and does sledgehammer training on tires…he RUNS like a friggen mofo and trains for his SPORT (fighting). CONDITIONING IS THE BIGGEST FACTOR…if you gas…your fucked. I talked to Quinton “Rampage” Jackson and he said he does no lifting whatsoever…he also told me that all the fight’s he’s lost is primarily because he simply gassed out…when you gas out…your technique, strength…everything pretty much goes to shit and your battling yoursself just as much as your oppenent.
Strength is important to have…The main reason why everyone is saying how they squat and deadlift more than a person but when they spar on the ground they are so much harder blah blah blah…thats because they train for that, they KNOW how to do it, they PRACTICE it regularly…obviosuly they are going to be better which means a defeat for you. Your knee’s may also hurt if you start ground fighting on mats, if your not used to that kinda thing.
It’s all about technique…because we all know technique IS strength…just like people have great technique in the bench, squat, and deadlift…and this allows them to lift more because of this technique…same goes with fighting. It shouldn’t be a huge surprise…if you all train ground fighting for a year or two…and someone squatted and deadlifted more than you…they would say the same thing some of you are saying now too. The end lol
[quote]Whopper wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
Whopper wrote:
What makes Matt a champ is his dedication, commitment, willpower, and natural ability. What program he follows is so far down the list it’s barely worth thinking about. As long as it’s half way sensible, which obviously it is.
Interesting concept.
So, If conditioning is such a minor factor, why is so much emphasis placed on it?
Are these pros placing inapropriate emphasis on conditioning?
Where did I mention conditioning?[/quote]
The part about “what program he follows…” It’s right there where I qouted it.
It would be safe to assume you meant conditioning program, and conditioning in general. Strength, speeed, technique, endurance… You know, Conditioning!
Yup. Got it on the intangibles. You need the passion and dedication to succeede. The guys that fail using certain methods are not failing due to the method, they are failing due to the execution. They are a good example of bad execution, poor dedication, and the want for instant gratification.
Well, this is true to some degree. I would add though that at that level of competition, Everybody has that level of dedication and sacrafice.
This is why the conditioning programs or evolutions that they use or develope are extremely important.
All of the competitors want to win. All of them do whatever they can to get a competative edge. The intangibles are in place. It is their conditioning that will set them apart.
Also, the thing about more than you can imagine, and thats what it takes to be a champion- Just plain silly.
There are some very highly ranked and competative atheletes on these boards.
[quote]dl- wrote:
First of all. All fighters…DONT even lift. PERIOD. Fedor trains with kettlebells, and does sledgehammer training on tires…he RUNS like a friggen mofo and trains for his SPORT (fighting). CONDITIONING IS THE BIGGEST FACTOR…if you gas…your fucked. I talked to Quinton “Rampage” Jackson and he said he does no lifting whatsoever…he also told me that all the fight’s he’s lost is primarily because he simply gassed out…when you gas out…your technique, strength…everything pretty much goes to shit and your battling yoursself just as much as your oppenent.
Strength is important to have…The main reason why everyone is saying how they squat and deadlift more than a person but when they spar on the ground they are so much harder blah blah blah…thats because they train for that, they KNOW how to do it, they PRACTICE it regularly…obviosuly they are going to be better which means a defeat for you. Your knee’s may also hurt if you start ground fighting on mats, if your not used to that kinda thing.
It’s all about technique…because we all know technique IS strength…just like people have great technique in the bench, squat, and deadlift…and this allows them to lift more because of this technique…same goes with fighting. It shouldn’t be a huge surprise…if you all train ground fighting for a year or two…and someone squatted and deadlifted more than you…they would say the same thing some of you are saying now too. The end lol[/quote]
thank you for your post. i very badly wanted to say this, but i knew that some of the people on this site would go postal hearing that some of the best athletes in the world dont train with weights.
the fact is, the vast majority of fighters (and, from what ive heard, most pure grapplers and boxers) dont put alot of emphasis on weight training.
Remember this guy? Bob “The Beast” Sapp. 6’5", 350lbs. Failed NFL lineman. Took the MMA by storm…until smaller fighters figured out that all you had to do was kick him in the leg a few times.
Massive, aggressive, strong…but he doesn’t even fight any more. No technique. Watch his fights on google video. He tries to muscle everyone around. It worked at first, then the more skilled fighters started kicking his ass. Check out Cro Cop breaking Sapps orbital bone with a stand-up left hook. That’s the nastiest, hardest hit I’ve ever seen. MMA isn’t about gym strength.
Here’s a link to the video. You have to watch the hit in slow motion at the end to really see how hard the hit is. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fighter in that much pain.
to matt hughes numbers: hughes says in an interview that he think that he could be better in the lifts if he concentrat more on weightlifting. but he find out for himself that than he has trouble with training wrestling and the other stuff.
he also says that mma is a lot about he call it “practical strength”… strengh he can us on the ground. so if u take a guy who weights more and beat him heavy in the 3 powerlifts it can be that he looks old on the groud with him hughes says.
The “majority” of his conditioning?
There is much more to conditioning than lifting weights.
I think he should spend the exact amount of time that he does now. He is an incredible champion. Suggesting that he need to spend more time or effort in the weight room, or change his program to add better one rep strength is…(clears throat) NUTTY!
Again, I have never said he NEEDS to do anything. I am HYPOTHESISING.
I was also referring to the LSD cardio, not just the weights.
You think he is bang on. Fair play, he is an awesome athlete. I am hypothesising that a change in his methods COULD make him better.
I agree it is difficult to determine tone over the net.[/quote]
And I am stating that your hypotheses is wrong!
Are we clear yet, or do we need another 5 or 6 posts?
It worked at first, then the more skilled fighters started kicking his ass. Check out Cro Cop breaking Sapps orbital bone with a stand-up left hook. That’s the nastiest, hardest hit I’ve ever seen. MMA isn’t about gym strength.
[/quote]
My favorite Bob Sapp moment is him covering his head and spinning in circles as Ray Sefo teed off on him. I can watch that over and over again in slow motion and never stop laughing.
Regardless of his skill, I’d bet that he is certainly one of the strongest fighters ever. Anyone know what he has lifted?
Are we clear yet, or do we need another 5 or 6 posts?
Hey, I’m here write back…
[/quote]
You cannot prove a hypothesis wrong until it is tested.
I cannot test it, you cannot test it.
I still stand my ground. I am free to speculate on such matters.
We are clear that we disagree on this.
We agree he is a great champ regardless. Again it is a minor point (technique training is a much bigger component in prep), I was mainly just sharing the info.
This argument could rage accross the battlefields of hell for eternity, but…it won’t. I’m done on this.
The End. (I’m sure you will want the last word though)
It worked at first, then the more skilled fighters started kicking his ass. Check out Cro Cop breaking Sapps orbital bone with a stand-up left hook. That’s the nastiest, hardest hit I’ve ever seen. MMA isn’t about gym strength.
My favorite Bob Sapp moment is him covering his head and spinning in circles as Ray Sefo teed off on him. I can watch that over and over again in slow motion and never stop laughing.
Regardless of his skill, I’d bet that he is certainly one of the strongest fighters ever. Anyone know what he has lifted?[/quote]
I bet in his NCAA/NFL days he could lift a house. Got kicked out of the NFL for steroids. Duh, ya’ think?
