[quote]brian.m wrote:
ok this has obviously gone well past productive, but APWSEARCH and ADAQUOI, how long have you both used the GHR intellegently in your own workouts to best determine its productivity via personal experience?[/quote]
4 years ago i had to implement them using someone elses protocols to train their athletes… went 2 years without one… then i implemented them for a year in the training of my own athletes… i personally could do 20 strict ghr’s a few weeks.
reverse hyper is 100x more effective at activating / strengthening the glutes than a GHR…
as for knee flexion, i already laid out my opinion… i don’t like the plantar flexor involvement either in the ghr’s.
[quote]brian.m wrote:
ok this has obviously gone well past productive, but APWSEARCH and ADAQUOI, how long have you both used the GHR intellegently in your own workouts to best determine its productivity via personal experience?[/quote]
I own one. I also own a RH. I have had them both for probably 12 years.
I train powerlifters in age range of 15-57. There is not a HS/Collegiate athlete alive that I have not put on both of those machines and their speed and strength out of the hole didn’t improve.
We had one kid who was swimmer but did the sprints (don’t have a swimming background so can’t remember specifics). When he came back to school that fall his time had dropped so dramatically his coach called me personally to find out what we were doing. He has now based his off season weight training on a program he and I put together collaboratively.
I had to look that word up to find out what it means. that says a lot about you and your personal habits and conduct.
I have said more than enough, you just are to young and stubborn in your thinking. You are like having a conversation with a 12 year old. I suspect you are in your early to mid 20’s and think you know it all. You have a lot to learn.
I will call Poliquin on Monday. I am very interested to hear his thoughts. Thanks for the number.
I had to look that word up to find out what it means. that says a lot about you and your personal habits and conduct.
I have said more than enough, you just are to young and stubborn in your thinking. You are like having a conversation with a 12 year old. I suspect you are in your early to mid 20’s and think you know it all. You have a lot to learn.
I will call Poliquin on Monday. I am very interested to hear his thoughts. Thanks for the number.
They are both great tools. I really like the 45 degree and we typically utilize it every week after we squat. We do them a little differently than most though.
Basically, we hold our arch the whole time and force the contraction through squezing our ass.
When we first start someone on them we don’t let them go down further than they can hold their arch. In other words, as soon as they start to flatten out they come up.
This builds both static strength and flexibility.
[quote]JPuxHenri wrote:
What do you guys think about the 45 degrees back raise and the conventional back raise for post chain development?
I was thinking of doing some single leg conv back raises as a post chain assistance exercise, as I don’t have access to a reverse hyper.
I assume that doing single leg conv or 45 degrees back raises is the closest thing to a single leg reverse hyper. Am I right?
[quote]JPuxHenri wrote:
What do you guys think about the 45 degrees back raise and the conventional back raise for post chain development?
I was thinking of doing some single leg conv back raises as a post chain assistance exercise, as I don’t have access to a reverse hyper.
I assume that doing single leg conv or 45 degrees back raises is the closest thing there is to a single leg reverse hyper. Am I right?
Thank you guys!![/quote]
ya 45 degree back raise is very effective at developing hip extension… i prefer isos held at the top position if you’re using them for jumping/sprinting etc… you don’t want to teach extending the back on hip extension if that is your goals.
you would be surprised how hard the hamstrings/glutes get hit on the isometrics in that position… i hold a loaded up ez curl bar in that position to add the overload.
Yeah, as both of you said, my idea was to forcefully contract the glutes through all the movement, especially at the top (motion at the glutes, hip extensors, not at the lumbar zone). I want to focus on glute development while doing this exercises.
Posterior chain strength = GHR (athletic populations/strength sports)
Hypertrophy of the hamstring = Leg Curl (bodybuilders)
Are there times I have athletes do leg curls, yes, but there is a reason the leg curl(singular) looks brand new and the GHR’s(plural)look like they have been through a war.
[quote]JUStrength wrote:
Sigh… This could have been a good thread.
Posterior chain strength = GHR (athletic populations/strength sports)
Hypertrophy of the hamstring = Leg Curl (bodybuilders)
Are there times I have athletes do leg curls, yes, but there is a reason the leg curl(singular) looks brand new and the GHR’s(plural)look like they have been through a war.
[/quote]
why would the hypertrophy obtained during a leg curl not be significant to an athlete (as long as this athlete is sprinting/squatting/playing sport etc)?
why does the hypertrophy obtained during a leg curl become useless in sport?
would you say that leg curls result in more myofibrillar hypertrophy of the hamstrings than ghr’s? if so, if there is more hypertrophy, isn’t there more ability for strength?
[quote]JUStrength wrote:
Sigh… This could have been a good thread.
Posterior chain strength = GHR (athletic populations/strength sports)
Hypertrophy of the hamstring = Leg Curl (bodybuilders)
Are there times I have athletes do leg curls, yes, but there is a reason the leg curl(singular) looks brand new and the GHR’s(plural)look like they have been through a war.
[/quote]
Well you at least summed up the important bits nicely.
For someone working out at home without much equipment outside of barbells, is there an alternative to either exercise?
To answer the original question here is my experience with the ghr. Tried a ghr the bench one a while ago one day and knocked out 12 no problem, after that I decided to try the natural one in my routine and wasnt even close. Have it in my routine now (the natural one) still cant do a full rep but getting closer and closer. Progressing through it I noticed it is not a very good glute exercise, neither did it make my hamstrings look huge (but I am very quad dominant my quads grow no problem glutes and hamstring thats a whole separate issue).
Btw as a comparison to the leg curl like I said I am still having a hard time doing the concentric portion of the natural ghr but can rep out the whole stack at my gym on the leg curl (the whole stack is 250 I believe), on the other hand I had a guy that does leg curls try it (he is beast 600 powerlifting squat at 230) and he didn’t have as hard a time as I though he would have, actually with a 60 lbs offset he was able to knockout 10 very clean ones. So in closing so far I think it is a decent way to work on hamstrings (the natural one I felt the bench one was wayyyy too easy) but I would definitely not call it the be all end all of exercises not even a necessary one at that. Any coach that tells you one exercise is the be all and all, you should be very weary of in my opinion.
Here is an article that I remembered from years ago that addresses the training of Rashaan Salaam and hamstring injury prevention. You might find it interesting.
I never really viewed the leg curl as a hypertrophy movement. I see it as more of a means to add volume to the training cycle and we use it very infrequently. In fact, I can’t remember the last time I used it. I think if it is not used carefully it can actually encourage injury.
If I were seeking hypertrophy I would gravitate towards compound movements, with or without a barbell. IMO, GHR and RH are compound movements.
[quote]Typhoon wrote:
after that I decided to try the natural one in my routine and wasnt even close. Have it in my routine now (the natural one) still cant do a full rep but getting closer and closer. Progressing through it I noticed it is not a very good glute exercise, neither did it make my hamstrings look huge (but I am very quad dominant my quads grow no problem glutes and hamstring thats a whole separate issue).
[/quote]
Well i would guess not since you still can’t do a full rep. I’m sure when you go from being able to do half a rep to being able to do 2 reps, your hamstrings will be much stronger/bigger.
I agree that the glute ham raise is more of a hamstring exercise than a glute one. However to keep your body perfectly still (no bending at the waist) on both the eccentric and concentric phases, your glutes have to be very strong and fully contracted.
[quote]JUStrength wrote:
Sigh… This could have been a good thread.
Posterior chain strength = GHR (athletic populations/strength sports)
Hypertrophy of the hamstring = Leg Curl (bodybuilders)
Are there times I have athletes do leg curls, yes, but there is a reason the leg curl(singular) looks brand new and the GHR’s(plural)look like they have been through a war.
[/quote]
It’s funny… I was having a lot of hamstring trouble til I started doing leg curls again. I totally ignored the whole knee flexion aspect and only worked on hip extension and it caused a lot of trouble.
Natural ghrs from the floor would be my top pick for hamstring developer(besides romanian deadlifts of course). Otherwise, another exercise I tend to use is the single swiss ball leg curl(more natural way of doing a leg curl without sitting or laying on your stomach)!!!
I have never used a GHR before, but just looking at the design, it looks to me like knee flexion strenth would still easily be the limiting factor in the lift and that extension of the hip would not be taxed to any great degree.
[quote]JUStrength wrote:
Sigh… This could have been a good thread.
Posterior chain strength = GHR (athletic populations/strength sports)
Hypertrophy of the hamstring = Leg Curl (bodybuilders)
Are there times I have athletes do leg curls, yes, but there is a reason the leg curl(singular) looks brand new and the GHR’s(plural)look like they have been through a war.
[/quote]
Could you please explain why the strength built in a GHR is more applicable to “athletic populations” than stregth built in a leg curl?
I’m not trying to infer you are wrong, i’m just interested to hear your logic.