I am wondering if the reason Clemson’s line (O and D) looked bad was because of their emphasis on speed. Speed is great for skill positions, but when speed dominates everywhere I wonder if 300 pound giants start to lose some of that mass that is needed to rush and
block. I know FSU has this same philosophy but it looks like this may get them into trouble sometimes.
I don’t know what Clemson’s S&C program is like, but if they are training their O&D Lines like WR’s in terms of speed, that could very well limit their push on the line. Like I said though, I’m not sure how they train there, so it’s hard to come up with a good explanation.
Speed off the ball kills, and speed for 5 yards kills, hopefully Clemson is putting emphasis on this for their lines. In my opinion, the best linemen are the ones who are big and strong but can also move like a smaller man (besides other things such as technique, leverage, etc.) Higher bodyweight is good until it starts having a negative affect on speed.
UF had this problem a number of years ago.
Spurrier was having the players do WAY too much aerobics and making them be too lean (or rather the trainers were) and also no doubt they were quite remiss in their use of the juice as well. If you remember the Sports Illustrated cover photo when we lost the national title game to Nebraska, geez, our linemen looked like children compared to the Huskers.
Needless to say the Gators were utterly routed.
That’s what too much emphasis on speed will do to a football team.
I think size combined with speed is what allowed Nebraska to be so great. My friend Fred Pollack who played left offensive tackle ran the 40 in 4.9 seconds while being 310 pounds and only 10% body fat. Dan Alexander, while not playing at that time, was a very muscular 250 pounds and ran the 40 in 4.5. All the lineman were great athletes in general. I remember Weigert and Zatecha being able to dunk a basketball with ease while weighing over 300 pounds. They were pretty muscular for offensive linemen. With Coach Frankie’s current recruiting however, they are having as much luck. At least that’s what I assume since the training programs are the same, last I heard. As for androgens being a factor, I know Fred didn’t use but I know many others did. In fact, I know who their supplier was at one time.
I remember when UF played Nebraska. Speed is great, but what good does having a better 40 time do if you can’t move a 300 pounder. Maybe if 300 pounders could be fast, that would work. Wonder what Coach Davies thinks on this
Chris, in answer to your question of 40 times of Interior Lineman - it is without question a negative training influence if your training for your interior line is to enhance there 40 time. Unfortunately what is difficult for many fans to see, is the athletic calibre of freshmen recruits. Florida State, typically is highly successful at recruiting the nations top ball-players. Within the Clemson program, in the last year the average weight of the OLine has increased nearly 15 pounds since last year. I would be be pleased to discuss OLine development if you wish. I do think that most fans far underestimate the speed and athleticism within “the trenches”. In faith, Coach Davies
Don’t remind me of the UF vs. Nebraska game. That was horrible! Hopefully, we’ll get a chance to play Nebraska again, and this time whoop up on them. But I must admit, I am a Cornhusker fan too. But the Gators are always first!
I saw most of the Clemson game, and I was disappointed in their performance. Here I am, trying to see if Coach Davies’ really worked them. But then they lost that game! At least Northwestern put a whoppin on Duke!
Regardless of everything else, it was obvious to me and the announcers that UVA was tired. I bthink the tank was empty for them but they pulled it out. By the way, that was no poush off worth a flag.
Tennessee had exactly the same problem as Florida when playing Nebraska. It really seems that the top SEC teams especially have this problem. Their defenses have incredible lateral speed, but really struggle when a bigger team runs straight at them. The Volunteer’s defensive coordinator is notorious for stealing incoming running backs and turning them into linebackers. Sure, noone can run outside, but what good does that do when you get run over up the middle? And I don’t think these teams have adressed this problem; they still are concerned primarily with speed in the middle. Until we adress that problem, I don’t think any Eastern team will be able to stay on the field with the Huskers.
Maybe I am confused by this post but is this post really questioning that explosive power & speed isn’t the most important in line play. In faith, Coach Davies
gee, why did I LOVE watching clemson loos to an UNRANCKED team? why did I LOVE seeing them look worn out? strength KILLS period!!!
Hetyeh - glad you enjoyed the game. Although I do find it amusing you associate me strictly with a team when it loses. Hmm, search some articles you find a few interesting ones of myself and a team who defeated the Super Bowl champs this weekend. I wouldn’t take credit for the Bengals win but if you want to dump on my theories and use the Clemson loss as rationale - go ahead 'cause I can take the heat. Frankly my numbers prove themselves day in day out and if you want to question them go ahead but instead on just writing endless retreads of HIT theories or spreading your devout hatred, why don’t you post a whole new thread. Here’s a topic for you, now I believe you posted “STRENGTH KILLS” - why not discuss the parameters of NCAA recruiting and NFL combine results of top lineman and the role explosive power/speed plays in the players success. You don’t think top programs don’t recruit their line based upon explosive power & speed and not simply “strength” - great lets hear about it, this ought to be fun. Personally, I have adopted an approach to abandon any posts that I see you on but I think I will enjoy this. I look forward to hearing how “STRENGTH KILLS” and anxiously await a new craze of Interior Lineman who are slow but real strong being recruited by the top programs and filling the draft boards of the NFL. In faith, Coach Davies
Chris, I’m sorry that I’m helping to get the thread off topic but this hatyay is a serious dick and I feel the need to stick up for my coach. I apologize.
heyteh, I cannot believe you find joy in one of our fellow t-man's loss. Let me put it another way: You're a dick. But enough name-calling. I would appreciate if you would continue to post your mindless and uneducated ideas on this thread. The last time you posted on the same thread as Coach Davies you posted something stupid mocking Coach Davies' posts and once he responded you didn't have your usual follow-up of rhetoric but you covered your balls and ran. So please continue to post. Stress from school is piling up and I could use a good laugh.
i saw on another board, hetyey225 is a internet “troll”. very funny although. somebody on another board said he will be here being mindless and telling nonsense. looks like he was again right!
to coach d. i enjoy your work and posts. a friend of mine told me to drop by here and check out specificaly your posts! they have been talking about you good on supertraining yahoo group too! keep doing the good work despite the nonsense of only a few people! but you will never avoid them all when you have any success! jealousy you know (wink). bye for now.
sorry guys who like FU, but they suck!
nebraska rules, and I’m from mass!
tommy frazier, best college player of the 90’s.
I am not questioning the value of speed at all. I remmeber a few years ago SEC teams were matched up with Big Ten teams, and the SEC won every game. This was because of speed. I was just talking to someone last night about Clemson and he mentioned how small they were. I agree. Not sure how much speed matters if you are outweighed by 40 pounds on the line. Speed is great, but I think that some of the FSU type stuff may hurt the line, rather than hep it. I know of another team that had a FSU coach and he tried the same thing Clemson is doing. Needless to say he isn’t a head coach anymore. As for Nebraska, good program but they play no one. Who is Tommy Frazier playing for in college? He was a good athlete, but he was not a QB. SEC football has the best speed as well as size up front. Nebraska hides out all fall and plays one or 2 teams. Please.
Coach,
Long time no speak, can assure you I am still incorporating a number of your excercises in my routine with great results.
Anyway, I’m going to sound a complete nut now but the bottom line is I am a HUGE Bengals fan! Being from England, coverage of the NFL is limited, particularly when you support an unfashionable side. I’d appreciate your thoughts on how they’ll get on this season, I’ve been quietly confident since LeBeau took over. Do you work with Takeo Spikes at all? I think he’s a fantastic athelete and I’m hoping he makes the pro-bowl this season.
In regards to this debate I think a simple physics equation will help: Force=MassxAcceleration. So as you can see mass and acceleraton (or power which is defined as distance over time) are both important. I think it is also easy to see the reason linemen today are so big-it is alot easier to increase mass than acceleration. However, I believe what Coach Davies is trying to get accross here is that mass is not the ONLY important factor in a good lineman/football player/or for that matter any athlete. So I think the real question here is the best ratio of mass and acceleration.