what do you think about doing calves first on leg day? Doing them after quads and hams is a bitch, and I have a hard time getting motivated for it.
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
what do you think about doing calves first on leg day? Doing them after quads and hams is a bitch, and I have a hard time getting motivated for it.[/quote]
Go calves-hams-quads then or something like that. I know what you mean about getting motivated for calves after the heavy stuff 
I have the same problem, even though I push them hard its the last thing I do and I just want to get out of there.
Iām thinking of giving a day to forearms and calves now to be honest maybe just adding in one other muscle after that. Forearms always just get ā3 sets at the end of a workoutā type of thing.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I have the same problem, even though I push them hard its the last thing I do and I just want to get out of there.
Iām thinking of giving a day to forearms and calves now to be honest maybe just adding in one other muscle after that. Forearms always just get ā3 sets at the end of a workoutā type of thing. [/quote]
Pinwheels (yes, with straps) pretty much take care of my forearms, and I can do them either before or after bicep work.
Calvesā¦ Just do them at the beginning of leg day and there you goā¦
I wouldnāt give them an extra day, though you could train calves and forearms during off-days if you wanted toā¦
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
I have the same problem, even though I push them hard its the last thing I do and I just want to get out of there.
Iām thinking of giving a day to forearms and calves now to be honest maybe just adding in one other muscle after that. Forearms always just get ā3 sets at the end of a workoutā type of thing.
Pinwheels (yes, with straps) pretty much take care of my forearms, and I can do them either before or after bicep work.
Calvesā¦ Just do them at the beginning of leg day and there you goā¦
I wouldnāt give them an extra day, though you could train calves and forearms during off-days if you wanted toā¦ [/quote]
Well thats what I was thinking because theyāre so stubborn. Maybe twice a week with one day before bicep/leg work and the other day having their own day. Iāll have to see how it goes I guess but theyāve always been very small, especially calves.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
what do you think about doing calves first on leg day? Doing them after quads and hams is a bitch, and I have a hard time getting motivated for it.
Go calves-hams-quads then or something like that. I know what you mean about getting motivated for calves after the heavy stuff
[/quote]
Hams also? I was thinking calves-quads-hams-abs. I donāt know if I can squat as much if I do leg curls firstā¦?
Btw, I squatted high bar last time, and it felt good. It was my first time trying 125kg and I got 4 smooth reps. 120kg x 6 last time I believe, with the bar lower.
CC due to your recommendations Iām just finished up FattyFats thread. You mentioned that you were going to experiment with cluster training. Did you ever do this and if so how did it go? It almost seems like a fool-proof way for progression and now that Iāve upped calories/carbs slightly I am thinking of giving it a go soon myself.
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
CC due to your recommendations Iām just finished up FattyFats thread. You mentioned that you were going to experiment with cluster training. Did you ever do this and if so how did it go? It almost seems like a fool-proof way for progression and now that Iāve upped calories/carbs slightly I am thinking of giving it a go soon myself. [/quote]
I noticed pretty fast that doing cluster training for every exercise was more than I could handleā¦ Had to abandon my test-runā¦ (Itās also really weird trying not to go to failure when youāve done just that/went beyond failure for a decade priorā¦)
But youāre not exactly in the same boat, strength-wise and age-wise (I think?), so give it a try!
If you canāt handle it for the whole body, using it for a few lifts (pull-ups especially) should still work well and you could do regular stuff for the rest of your routine.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Needmassquick wrote:
CC due to your recommendations Iām just finished up FattyFats thread. You mentioned that you were going to experiment with cluster training. Did you ever do this and if so how did it go? It almost seems like a fool-proof way for progression and now that Iāve upped calories/carbs slightly I am thinking of giving it a go soon myself.
I noticed pretty fast that doing cluster training for every exercise was more than I could handleā¦ Had to abandon my test-runā¦ (Itās also really weird trying not to go to failure when youāve done just that/went beyond failure for a decade priorā¦)
But youāre not exactly in the same boat, strength-wise and age-wise (I think?), so give it a try!
If you canāt handle it for the whole body, using it for a few lifts (pull-ups especially) should still work well and you could do regular stuff for the rest of your routine.
[/quote]
In what regard was it more than you could handle? (frequency, volume, overall load?)
If each exercise is only a total of 25 reps it doesnāt seem like a huge amount. However one thing I could see is that even if your starting with maybe 10, 8, 7 or something you might soon be getting to lots of heavy low rep sets like 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 ,1 or something similar where your really working at a high intensity (% of 1RM-wise) for many sets. Is that what happened to you?
Sorry for all the questions but 2 other things I was wondering about
-
When you said without going to failure do you still go to a point that is the max you can do without literally failing to get another or do you stop before that where you could actually get another rep or 2? It confuses me because when people say āshort of failureā I donāt know if they mean just before literally failing (so pushing yourself as hard as possible) or if they mean stopping at a point where they could keep going
-
Doesnāt this directly go against the whole ārampingā thing? I mean your literally doing a bunch of straight sets with the same weight. Just wondering how that comes into play exactly.
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
In what regard was it more than you could handle? (frequency, volume, overall load?) [/quote]
All of them
Also, itās terribly difficult to keep your technique good when doing rows close to your 1RM. Actually, I donāt think itās possible. They always degrade into an arm-flexor + lat exercise then.
[quote]
If each exercise is only a total of 25 reps it doesnāt seem like a huge amount[/quote] Squatting 585 for 20-25 reps total per session is a huge amount, Iām afraid. [quote]. However one thing I could see is that even if your starting with maybe 10, 8, 7 or something you might soon be getting to lots of heavy low rep sets like 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 ,1 or something similar where your really working at a high intensity (% of 1RM-wise) for many sets. Is that what happened to you?
[/quote] Thatās kind of normal
Iām not used to doing my working weight for that many reps, especially at the higher percentages of 1RM.
Iām a one-set kinda guy.
Also, the split wasnāt really for me.
Upper body day with 6 heavy exercises and pretty much only barbell workā¦
-BB Row
-BB low-incline
-BB OHP
-Pullups
-EZ Dead Extensions
-EZ Curls
25 reps at working weight of eachā¦ Reallyā¦ My wrists felt funny at the end, forearms were shot, elbows didnāt like it eitherā¦ Etc.
Plus fatty only trained his upper body with weights while doing that stuffā¦ For the rest of us, we still have to figure out how to include lower body lifts, and believe me, doing 80-90 percent of your max squat for 25 reps per session 2-3 times a week? Eh.
So thatās why I prefer the method for lifts you really want to bring up. Works perfect for pull-ups. [quote]
Sorry for all the questions but 2 other things I was wondering about
-
When you said without going to failure do you still go to a point that is the max you can do without literally failing to get another or do you stop before that where you could actually get another rep or 2? It confuses me because when people say āshort of failureā I donāt know if they mean just before literally failing (so pushing yourself as hard as possible) or if they mean stopping at a point where they could keep going [/quote] Stopping with some rep(s) left in the tank. You should ask fattyfat about this tuff though, as heās had the most success applying the method and the most experience with it. [quote]
-
Doesnāt this directly go against the whole ārampingā thing? I mean your literally doing a bunch of straight sets with the same weight. Just wondering how that comes into play exactly. [/quote]
You still sort of ramp up to it/warm-up, just think of the clusters at working weight as a kind of extended top-set.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
If each exercise is only a total of 25 reps it doesnāt seem like a huge amount Squatting 585 for 20-25 reps total per session is a huge amount, Iām afraid. . However one thing I could see is that even if your starting with maybe 10, 8, 7 or something you might soon be getting to lots of heavy low rep sets like 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 ,1 or something similar where your really working at a high intensity (% of 1RM-wise) for many sets. Is that what happened to you?
Thatās kind of normal
[/quote]
Oh really? How soon did it get to being like that for you and how high in reps did you start?
I was planning on trying this as a full routine but maybe now Iāll just stick with 1 exercise per session or something. Pull ups and Dips will probably be my main choices.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
You still sort of ramp up to it/warm-up, just think of the clusters at working weight as a kind of extended top-set.
[/quote]
I guess but your still resting as long as necessary right? I mean 10x300, wait 1 min, 9x300, wait 90sec., 9x300, wait 2min, etcā¦sounds like straight sets to me
ok cc, question 4 ya i have a week a and week b so each week i rotate exercises, my question is is this really necessary unless like im huge. Like should i not worry about this till im much larger and stall out alot easier?
i have a question about progression if you dont mind.
chest biās and tris
flat db bench 90 x 11
low incline bb 195 x 6
cable fly 60 x amrap 2 sets
bb curl
pinwheel curl
close grip bb
cable pressdown
i have been stuck at 11 reps on the flat db press for the last 4 workouts. normally i add weight when i get to 10 reps but 90ās is the largest db in my gym. i was thinking about switching the low incline and flat db and i think i could do 205 for 6 and it would bring my flat db reps down to 7 or 8 and i could work it back up to 10 or so before i have to look for a different exercise. i would have switched exercises already but i been having elbow issues and this is one of the presses that aggravates my elbow the least. any suggestions
[quote]crod266 wrote:
ok cc, question 4 ya i have a week a and week b so each week i rotate exercises, my question is is this really necessary unless like im huge. Like should i not worry about this till im much larger and stall out alot easier?[/quote]
Uh, too little data
[quote]haas wrote:
i have a question about progression if you dont mind.
chest biās and tris
flat db bench 90 x 11
low incline bb 195 x 6
cable fly 60 x amrap 2 sets
bb curl
pinwheel curl
close grip bb
cable pressdown
i have been stuck at 11 reps on the flat db press for the last 4 workouts. normally i add weight when i get to 10 reps but 90ās is the largest db in my gym. i was thinking about switching the low incline and flat db and i think i could do 205 for 6 and it would bring my flat db reps down to 7 or 8 and i could work it back up to 10 or so before i have to look for a different exercise. i would have switched exercises already but i been having elbow issues and this is one of the presses that aggravates my elbow the least. any suggestions
[/quote]
Elbow issuesā¦ At those weights youāre using? Not good. Any more detail on that?
And yes, switch the exercises aroundā¦ But Iād prefer if you could get rid of your elbow troubles first, may have to lay off the pressing for a whileā¦ And get Elbow sleeves from APT (tommy konoās work well) or eliteftsā¦
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
crod266 wrote:
ok cc, question 4 ya i have a week a and week b so each week i rotate exercises, my question is is this really necessary unless like im huge. Like should i not worry about this till im much larger and stall out alot easier?
Uh, too little data
[/quote]
haha ok in that case this in my routine below, I had the week a and week b which i switch to off every other week from one to the other so i dont stall out. But my question is, is besides the deads and squats because of low back does anything else need to be rotated at this stage in the game. I mean should i just wait till im much stronger to do that?
mon-
leg press calf raise-1 top set of 8-15
lying leg curl-1 top set of 8-12
back squat-heavy set 4-8
wm back squat 15-22
reverse hyper-12-15
wed-
hs incline press-8-15
db bench press-5-8
alt offset db curls-4-8 a side
pinwheels-5-10 a side
cybex curl machine-10-20
in-human smith presses-8-15
pjr pullovers-8-15
friday-
db high incline presses-6-10
then another lighter set of 10-15
cable laterals-10-15(i can never progress on these ha)
rack chins-6-12
deadlifts-6-8
lighter set of 8-12
some type of shoulder saver
week b
mon-
some type of calf machine-8-15
gluteham raise-set of as many bw
1 leg leg curl-8-15 per leg
hack squat-4-6
wm 15-22
wed-incline bench-8-15
hs decline bench-4-8
incine curls both arms as same time-5-8
1-arm reverse cable curls-8-15
hs curls-10-20
hs dips-8-15
lying e-z bar extensions-8-15
friday-
hs shoulder press-6-8
lighter set of 10-15
db 1 arm at a time side laterals-10-15
d handle lat pulldown-5-8
hs low row-12-22 per arm
I also do all the extreme stretches besides arms
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
haas wrote:
i have a question about progression if you dont mind.
chest biās and tris
flat db bench 90 x 11
low incline bb 195 x 6
cable fly 60 x amrap 2 sets
bb curl
pinwheel curl
close grip bb
cable pressdown
i have been stuck at 11 reps on the flat db press for the last 4 workouts. normally i add weight when i get to 10 reps but 90ās is the largest db in my gym. i was thinking about switching the low incline and flat db and i think i could do 205 for 6 and it would bring my flat db reps down to 7 or 8 and i could work it back up to 10 or so before i have to look for a different exercise. i would have switched exercises already but i been having elbow issues and this is one of the presses that aggravates my elbow the least. any suggestions
Elbow issuesā¦ At those weights youāre using? Not good. Any more detail on that?
And yes, switch the exercises aroundā¦ But Iād prefer if you could get rid of your elbow troubles first, may have to lay off the pressing for a whileā¦ And get Elbow sleeves from APT (tommy konoās work well) or eliteftsā¦
[/quote]
pain is on the outside of the left elbow only and is very manageable after it gets warmed up. elbow sleeves are on the way hopefully they help. also at what amount of reps would you give up on the db bench since i cant go up in weight.
thanks for your time c_c
Hey CC-
Quick question. As you can see from my av, my arms(particularly biceps) are lagging behind the rest of my body, especially shoulders and back. Iāve been doing DC for 3-4 months now. Seated incline db curls are the only exercise that really blast them and make them sore. I think itās an issue of the long head not getting enough work. Is there any other exercises you would suggest to help bring them up? Iāve tried reg bb, db, spider, preacher, seated, etc. Maybe itās just a case of an always weak body part or something.
Thanks-
D
[quote]haas wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
haas wrote:
i have a question about progression if you dont mind.
chest biās and tris
flat db bench 90 x 11
low incline bb 195 x 6
cable fly 60 x amrap 2 sets
bb curl
pinwheel curl
close grip bb
cable pressdown
i have been stuck at 11 reps on the flat db press for the last 4 workouts. normally i add weight when i get to 10 reps but 90ās is the largest db in my gym. i was thinking about switching the low incline and flat db and i think i could do 205 for 6 and it would bring my flat db reps down to 7 or 8 and i could work it back up to 10 or so before i have to look for a different exercise. i would have switched exercises already but i been having elbow issues and this is one of the presses that aggravates my elbow the least. any suggestions
Elbow issuesā¦ At those weights youāre using? Not good. Any more detail on that?
And yes, switch the exercises aroundā¦ But Iād prefer if you could get rid of your elbow troubles first, may have to lay off the pressing for a whileā¦ And get Elbow sleeves from APT (tommy konoās work well) or eliteftsā¦
[/quote] Which exercises bother your elbow and do you know how it started? [quote]
pain is on the outside of the left elbow only and is very manageable after it gets warmed up. elbow sleeves are on the way hopefully they help. also at what amount of reps would you give up on the db bench since i cant go up in weight.
thanks for your time c_c
[/quote]
The DB Bench, dunno, try 15. Itās not that important anyway, you can also just replace it right now if you want.
[quote]DaveyD wrote:
Hey CC-
Quick question. As you can see from my av, my arms(particularly biceps) are lagging behind the rest of my body, especially shoulders and back. Iāve been doing DC for 3-4 months now. Seated incline db curls are the only exercise that really blast them and make them sore. I think itās an issue of the long head not getting enough work. Is there any other exercises you would suggest to help bring them up? Iāve tried reg bb, db, spider, preacher, seated, etc. Maybe itās just a case of an always weak body part or something.
Thanks-
D[/quote]
What does your rotation look like? (+rep ranges)