[quote]Skinless wrote:
cephalic carnage.
amazing band[/quote]
(not really my favorite band or anything, but I was listening to them at the time I registered for postingā¦ Hence my nickname. I suck at being original.)
Yea gkhan that was it, thanks
CC do you recommend anything for forearms? I just switching wrist curls with something like this http://www.frixo.com/sites/fitness/exercises/pics/roller.jpg today. Burns a lot but just wondering if you have anything thats worked well for you
Thanks so much for those detailed descriptions! Definitely going to try PJR pullovers. I currently have reverse grip bench presses as my triceps exercise and triceps pushdowns as my secondary, higher rep exerciseābut I might replace the pushdowns with PJR pullovers. Also, on the RGBās, Iām going to definitely correct my form.
The advice on retracting the scapula on both the exercises is golden. Iām going to have to remind myself to do that.
I donāt use wrist wraps or sleeves, yet. The weights I handle donāt seem heavy enough to warrant them but I might start using them just in case. I didnāt really get elbow problems with the half-breed skullcrushers/pjr pullovers that I used to do unless I used low reps (4-6). Iāve heard you say PJR pullovers are easier on the elbows so thatās why I was interesed in learning how to perform them correctly. As much crap as they get by some people, I recently started wearing gloves with the built-in wrist supports, though, and I feel like I can press more with them. Iām not sure if itās mental or if itās the slight wrist reinforcement that is helping me.
Maybe I can figure out a way to lower the stops on the smith machine so they are in between two of the set bracket points (maybe place a small plate on a lower point).
I really appreciate all your help!
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
Yea gkhan that was it, thanks
CC do you recommend anything for forearms? I just switching wrist curls with something like this http://www.frixo.com/sites/fitness/exercises/pics/roller.jpg today. Burns a lot but just wondering if you have anything thats worked well for you[/quote]
The finger flexors get trained via gripping work all the timeā¦
The wrist flexors are also used in curls (supinated etc) and when doing heavy pulls and whatnotā¦
The brachioradialis and wrist extensors are trained via Hammer curls, Pinwhels, Reverse Curls etcā¦ (which I doā¦ I donāt bother with wrist-curls thoughā¦ Why should I)
Only thing one might want to add is training the finger extensors (you grip stuff all the time, but you donāt usually do the opposite of gripping much).
Use bands or something like thatā¦ Itās not really important for weaker guys, but stronger people, heavy deadlifters etc might want to do some finger extensor work.
Putting your hand in a deep bowl filled with rice or so and spreading your hands then also worksā¦
That stuff can help with forearm/elbow pain (depending on the cause of the pain, of course) at times.
(donāt worry too much about it though)
[quote]bulldogtor wrote:
Thanks so much for those detailed descriptions! Definitely going to try PJR pullovers. I currently have reverse grip bench presses as my triceps exercise and triceps pushdowns as my secondary, higher rep exerciseābut I might replace the pushdowns with PJR pullovers. Also, on the RGBās, Iām going to definitely correct my form.
The advice on retracting the scapula on both the exercises is golden. Iām going to have to remind myself to do that. [/quote] That is done on practically all presses. [quote]
I donāt use wrist wraps or sleeves, yet. The weights I handle donāt seem heavy enough to warrant them but I might start using them just in case.[/quote] Yeahā¦ Some ātoughā-guys may think youāre a pussy for using neoprene sleeves from day one, but you know whatā¦
People usually start to use that stuff once theyāre already suffering from elbow/wrist/knee injuriesā¦ And thatās a little late [quote]
I didnāt really get elbow problems with the half-breed skullcrushers/pjr pullovers that I used to do unless I used low reps (4-6). Iāve heard you say PJR pullovers are easier on the elbows so thatās why I was interesed in learning how to perform them correctly [/quote] Lowering the bar behind the head on EZ extensions or so is always easier on the elbows than bringing it down on the forehead or noseā¦ So you instinctively did it right anywayā¦ PJRās are even easier on the elbows imo, but both exercises should be fine in general. [quote]. As much crap as they get by some people, I recently started wearing gloves with the built-in wrist supports, though, and I feel like I can press more with them. Iām not sure if itās mental or if itās the slight wrist reinforcement that is helping me.
Maybe I can figure out a way to lower the stops on the smith machine so they are in between two of the set bracket points (maybe place a small plate on a lower point).
I really appreciate all your help![/quote]
No problem at all.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Skinless wrote:
cephalic carnage.
amazing band
(not really my favorite band or anything, but I was listening to them at the time I registered for postingā¦ Hence my nickname. I suck at being original.)[/quote]
Its ok.
I also suck at being original.
[quote]Skinless wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Skinless wrote:
cephalic carnage.
amazing band
(not really my favorite band or anything, but I was listening to them at the time I registered for postingā¦ Hence my nickname. I suck at being original.)
Its ok.
I also suck at being original.
[/quote]
I noticed 
Band-for-handle people unite!
ok cc, whereās your journal? you will be watched verrrry carefully.
So my friend thinks doing cardio before we lift weights is potentially slowing our strength gains and wants to start doing it after our workouts. Is there any difference or downside to doing it after?
Also what protocol should we use to not lose any size. Long sessions while walkingā¦maybe on an incline?
Short sessions spent jogging or running? So ya basically how long exactly should we be doing cardio for and how fast should be walking/running? Were basically also concerned with the health of our hearts especially my friend whoās father died at 38 of a heart attackā¦itās a relevant concern for him.
BTW my friend wanted you to know arm is around 16.5 inchās after 6 weeksā¦
Ceph is going to tell you:
-
He doesnāt like doing cardio after training. Get your post workout shake/meal in and thatās it.
-
Consider carb cut-offs+ fasted morning cardio. Brisk walk for 30-40 minutes.
-
Cardio before weights is a big no-no.
This is pretty much what he told me, anyway.
[quote]Matthaeus wrote:
So my friend thinks doing cardio before we lift weights is potentially slowing our strength gains and wants to start doing it after our workouts. Is there any difference or downside to doing it after?
Also what protocol should we use to not lose any size. Long sessions while walkingā¦maybe on an incline?
Short sessions spent jogging or running? So ya basically how long exactly should we be doing cardio for and how fast should be walking/running? Were basically also concerned with the health of our hearts especially my friend whoās father died at 38 of a heart attackā¦itās a relevant concern for him.
BTW my friend wanted you to know arm is around 16.5 inchās after 6 weeksā¦[/quote]
When it comes to heart health, Iād say you guys got to worry more about your diet than your cardioā¦ Ditch the starchy and refined carbs and replace them with (mostly) healthy fats and some extra protein.
You can do your cardio after training, sure, but Iāve never liked doing thatā¦ I do it in the mornings, fasted low-intensity cardio, a brisk walk around the neighbourhood for 30-40 mins or so 4 days per week unless I want to lose fat actively, then itās 6 days (not leg day/s).
That only seems to work well (for me) coupled with DC style cutoffs (only eating lean protein sources after a certain time in the evening, usually after 6, coupled with some trace carbs and fiber from a few vegetables/salad etcā¦ Basically no hi-fat or hi-carb stuffā¦ You eat all that before cutoff time) in the evening thoughā¦
So to tell you the truth, Iām no specialist when it comes to PWO cardio. I donāt like it, donāt do itā¦ PWO I get my shake in, drive home, eat about an hour after the shake and really REALLY donāt want to worry about doing cardioā¦ Considering that Iām pretty much dead from heavy lifting.
Iād suggest that you guys contact Sentoguy and ask him about pwo cardio protocols, Iāve never bothered coming up with a good one. He might be able to help you.
Got to check your log again, actually.
But yeah, in my defense: I was terribly busy eating food and watching Dexter episodes with my girl
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Ceph is going to tell you:
-
He doesnāt like doing cardio after training. Get your post workout shake/meal in and thatās it.
-
Consider carb cut-offs+ fasted morning cardio. Brisk walk for 30-40 minutes.
-
Cardio before weights is a big no-no.
This is pretty much what he told me, anyway.
[/quote]
So yeah. Why did I actually bother posting. I should have read further in the thread lol
Well at least you can tell Iāve been listening
Hmm, I wasnāt aware that you advice against doing both back squats and rack pulls on that 3-way. Iāve been doing that. Just lying leg curls for hams, though. My QL muscles cramp up on rack pulls, so maybe Iāll be better off dropping them thenā¦ Iām kinda loathe to do that, but I guess big backs have been built by rows also.
What do you think about this:
Day 1: Incline smith, flat DB press, EZ curls, pinwheels, IH press, Deadskulls.
Day 2: Back squat, leg press, lying leg curl, calves on leg press, standing abs.
Day 3: OFF if needed. (When Iām at home and not working, Iāll go to the gym I expect)
Day 4: Ruhl style press, laterals, Pulldowns, T-bar rows (with a belt to avoid low back stress)
Day 5: OFF
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Hmm, I wasnāt aware that you advice against doing both back squats and rack pulls on that 3-way. Iāve been doing that. Just lying leg curls for hams, though. My QL muscles cramp up on rack pulls, so maybe Iāll be better off dropping them thenā¦ Iām kinda loathe to do that, but I guess big backs have been built by rows also.
What do you think about this:
Day 1: Incline smith, flat DB press, EZ curls, pinwheels, IH press, Deadskulls.
Day 2: Back squat, leg press, lying leg curl, calves on leg press, standing abs.
Day 3: OFF if needed. (When Iām at home and not working, Iāll go to the gym I expect[/quote] Your low-back is what Iām thinking of here. Back squats and then t-bars a day later? [quote])
Day 4: Ruhl style press, laterals, Pulldowns, T-bar rows (with a belt to avoid low back stress)
Day 5: OFF
[/quote]
Well, it dependsā¦ You can alternate between back squats and rack pulls/deadlifts from cycle to cycle.
Letās say, cycle one you do back squats and SLDLās (if you like them) or leg curlsā¦
T-bars for backthickness
Cycle 2 you do deadlifts or rack pulls for backthickness, leg presses for quads, and then whatever you like for hams (sumo leg presses maybe for 15-25ā¦ Put your feet all the way up the pad)
And you just rotate those.
If you do the 3-days a week version, you can do both as long as youāre not too strong yet (or if youāre built for those exercises and donāt get much low-back trouble from them).
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Hmm, I wasnāt aware that you advice against doing both back squats and rack pulls on that 3-way. Iāve been doing that. Just lying leg curls for hams, though. My QL muscles cramp up on rack pulls, so maybe Iāll be better off dropping them thenā¦ Iām kinda loathe to do that, but I guess big backs have been built by rows also.
What do you think about this:
Day 1: Incline smith, flat DB press, EZ curls, pinwheels, IH press, Deadskulls.
Day 2: Back squat, leg press, lying leg curl, calves on leg press, standing abs.
Day 3: OFF if needed. (When Iām at home and not working, Iāll go to the gym I expect Your low-back is what Iām thinking of here. Back squats and then t-bars a day later? )
Day 4: Ruhl style press, laterals, Pulldowns, T-bar rows (with a belt to avoid low back stress)
Day 5: OFF
Well, it dependsā¦ You can alternate between back squats and rack pulls/deadlifts from cycle to cycle.
Letās say, cycle one you do back squats and SLDLās (if you like them) or leg curlsā¦
T-bars for backthickness
Cycle 2 you do deadlifts or rack pulls for backthickness, leg presses for quads, and then whatever you like for hams (sumo leg presses maybe for 15-25ā¦ Put your feet all the way up the pad)
And you just rotate those.
If you do the 3-days a week version, you can do both as long as youāre not too strong yet (or if youāre built for those exercises and donāt get much low-back trouble from them).
[/quote]
Alright, I can do something like that. I guess 3 days out of 5 would be the highest advisable frequency? Iām not too fond of the leg press we have, though, maybe do front squats for the heavy set, then leg press?
Another option would be to use our chest supported vertical row machine instead of T-bars, and go every 3 out of 4. Iād guess Iād miss out on some money exercises that way, though.
CC do you like to start your chest movements with an incline exercise? It seems thats what a lot of bodybuilders are suggesting to avoid the lagging upper chest. Iām not even very big yet but already my upper chest sucks compared to my mid/lower chest.
Iām also noticed a gap between my pecsā¦
I donāt know why other than maybe losing some fat but I never noticed that before
[quote]Mr.Purple wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Hmm, I wasnāt aware that you advice against doing both back squats and rack pulls on that 3-way. Iāve been doing that. Just lying leg curls for hams, though. My QL muscles cramp up on rack pulls, so maybe Iāll be better off dropping them thenā¦ Iām kinda loathe to do that, but I guess big backs have been built by rows also.
What do you think about this:
Day 1: Incline smith, flat DB press, EZ curls, pinwheels, IH press, Deadskulls.
Day 2: Back squat, leg press, lying leg curl, calves on leg press, standing abs.
Day 3: OFF if needed. (When Iām at home and not working, Iāll go to the gym I expect Your low-back is what Iām thinking of here. Back squats and then t-bars a day later? )
Day 4: Ruhl style press, laterals, Pulldowns, T-bar rows (with a belt to avoid low back stress)
Day 5: OFF
Well, it dependsā¦ You can alternate between back squats and rack pulls/deadlifts from cycle to cycle.
Letās say, cycle one you do back squats and SLDLās (if you like them) or leg curlsā¦
T-bars for backthickness
Cycle 2 you do deadlifts or rack pulls for backthickness, leg presses for quads, and then whatever you like for hams (sumo leg presses maybe for 15-25ā¦ Put your feet all the way up the pad)
And you just rotate those.
If you do the 3-days a week version, you can do both as long as youāre not too strong yet (or if youāre built for those exercises and donāt get much low-back trouble from them).
Alright, I can do something like that. I guess 3 days out of 5 would be the highest advisable frequency? Iām not too fond of the leg press we have, though, maybe do front squats for the heavy set, then leg press?
Another option would be to use our chest supported vertical row machine instead of T-bars, and go every 3 out of 4. Iād guess Iād miss out on some money exercises that way, though.[/quote]
Yeah well, Iād stick to 3 out of 5 for now and do the t-bars.
Whatās wrong with your leg press? Any squat machines or some such around?
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
CC do you like to start your chest movements with an incline exercise? It seems thats what a lot of bodybuilders are suggesting to avoid the lagging upper chest. Iām not even very big yet but already my upper chest sucks compared to my mid/lower chest.
Iām also noticed a gap between my pecsā¦ I donāt know why other than maybe losing some fat but I never noticed that before[/quote]
Yeah, I often start with an incline movement (If Iām on a routine with multiple chest exercises), but to be honest, it sometimes actually feels better to do the flat or decline stuff before inclinesā¦ I donāt think it matters all that much though. Just make sure you progress on both.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Mr.Purple wrote:
Hmm, I wasnāt aware that you advice against doing both back squats and rack pulls on that 3-way. Iāve been doing that. Just lying leg curls for hams, though. My QL muscles cramp up on rack pulls, so maybe Iāll be better off dropping them thenā¦ Iām kinda loathe to do that, but I guess big backs have been built by rows also.
What do you think about this:
Day 1: Incline smith, flat DB press, EZ curls, pinwheels, IH press, Deadskulls.
Day 2: Back squat, leg press, lying leg curl, calves on leg press, standing abs.
Day 3: OFF if needed. (When Iām at home and not working, Iāll go to the gym I expect Your low-back is what Iām thinking of here. Back squats and then t-bars a day later? )
Day 4: Ruhl style press, laterals, Pulldowns, T-bar rows (with a belt to avoid low back stress)
Day 5: OFF
Well, it dependsā¦ You can alternate between back squats and rack pulls/deadlifts from cycle to cycle.
Letās say, cycle one you do back squats and SLDLās (if you like them) or leg curlsā¦
T-bars for backthickness
Cycle 2 you do deadlifts or rack pulls for backthickness, leg presses for quads, and then whatever you like for hams (sumo leg presses maybe for 15-25ā¦ Put your feet all the way up the pad)
And you just rotate those.
If you do the 3-days a week version, you can do both as long as youāre not too strong yet (or if youāre built for those exercises and donāt get much low-back trouble from them).
Alright, I can do something like that. I guess 3 days out of 5 would be the highest advisable frequency? Iām not too fond of the leg press we have, though, maybe do front squats for the heavy set, then leg press?
Another option would be to use our chest supported vertical row machine instead of T-bars, and go every 3 out of 4. Iād guess Iād miss out on some money exercises that way, though.
Yeah well, Iād stick to 3 out of 5 for now and do the t-bars.
Whatās wrong with your leg press? Any squat machines or some such around?
[/quote]
Thereās a sticking point in the middle of ROM. I was doing calf work on it yesterday, and when I was in the bottom position there was hardly any stretch on the muscles because it was stuck on the tracks. When I do the quad widowmaker, it just means that there is a point in the middle of the ROM where I grunt, scream, and shout curses. lol No biggie I guess, heavy is heavy.
Ok, Iāll alternate cycles between T-bars and Rack Pulls then. Iāll try doing leg presses for the 4-6 set. It might work better with heavier weight anyway. SDLās on back squat cycle, lying leg curls on rack pull cycle.