[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
By the same logic, if you’re serious about lifting, I’m not sure why you would bother getting a job when you can focus on improving your training protocol 24/7 and mooch off others. Or better yet, open up your own gym.[/quote]
Um… no I think you’ve twisted it a bit much there. You can’t afford the training if you don’t work. I guess you can find a woman with no self esteem and mooch off her but even that will only last so long. Take some pride and do what you have to do.
[quote]
Absolutist logic.
The reality is that NOBODY will get 8+hrs of sleep every night, stick to your diet every day, and never get drunk or puff on a joint ever again. Unless you are a professional athlete in an iron sport (and even then), life gets in the way. Sometimes it’s nice to have a late night out with friends instead of going to bed early. Just not every night. It’s called balance. Feel free to call me out for not being serious about lifting.
What this really is is a matter of extent. I don’t think anybody responded, “Hurray for weed! It’s a miracle drug that will solve all your problems and make you hyooooge and shredded, all the while being completely benign, so smoke up 10x a day!”
That is to say, if you’re going to do it, don’t be a dumbass about it, and you probably won’t suffer major consequences. I don’t see much value training-wise, but whatever floats your boat.[/quote]
I will agree with most of this. I’m not saying not to drink or smoke recreationally. Shit, if it were legal here and I didn’t have to worry about losing my job I would treat it just like alcohol and smoke a little every once and while. But there’s a big difference to using it recreationally and using it as a training supplement, HUGE difference. LOL!
I will agree with most of this. I’m not saying not to drink or smoke recreationally. Shit, if it were legal here and I didn’t have to worry about losing my job I would treat it just like alcohol and smoke a little every once and while. But there’s a big difference to using it recreationally and using it as a training supplement, HUGE difference. LOL!
[/quote]
This. Basically… thread is done. Fun fact about weed, Bruce Lee died from eating hashish (made to be smoked, not eaten, as it was grown and processed in a dirty environment back in the day)… and is the only known example of death by marijuana ingestion.
You can make whatever argument you want about weed, but weed as a motivator to eat to succeed in the gym is a poor reason in my opinion. Motivation to succeed must come from within YOU, not a friend, not your parents, not a boss, not a wife or girlfriend, and certainly not from a drug or supplement, but you and only you. [/quote]
The motivation to succeed did come from me (weed is going to do the opposite - gotta weigh up the upsides and drawbacks). Being stoned doesn’t make you an entirely different person, y’know. It is a very, very mild drug, which CAN help SOME if used sensibly due to it’s relaxant and appetite enhancing properties. Just look at the number of people on this board that fail to put on weight because they are “hard gainers” (aka - they don’t eat enough). Weed, whilst most definitely not a long term solution, can definitely help with piling in the calories and it can help people who are scared of eating big to get over that initial hurdle.
Getting smashed once a week is undoubtedly more detrimental for the bodybuilder than having a few joints on the weekend. Don’t see what the big deal is?
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
By the same logic, if you’re serious about lifting, I’m not sure why you would bother getting a job when you can focus on improving your training protocol 24/7 and mooch off others. Or better yet, open up your own gym.[/quote]
Um… no I think you’ve twisted it a bit much there. You can’t afford the training if you don’t work. I guess you can find a woman with no self esteem and mooch off her but even that will only last so long. Take some pride and do what you have to do.
But it can be used as a supplement. Anything that can be used to improve results for certain individuals can be viewed as a supplement. It has a lot of negative effects for gym goers too, so benefits and drawbacks must be considered. I do think it can have a more positive effect than some of the “real” supplements making the rounds today though.
If you are going to use it as a supplement, you are going to have to be honest about your reasons for using it and closely monitor your usage because it can affect SOME people’s motivation if you they let their guard down and start smoking more over time. I no longer smoke weed these days, so I’m not simply justifying my use. As someone who as experienced it’s positive and negative effects, I recognise that it CAN have a positive effect.
Would I recommend weed to someone for the sole purpose of helping them reach their bodybuilding goals? No. Do I think it can help certain individuals? Certainly.
I will agree with most of this. I’m not saying not to drink or smoke recreationally. Shit, if it were legal here and I didn’t have to worry about losing my job I would treat it just like alcohol and smoke a little every once and while. But there’s a big difference to using it recreationally and using it as a training supplement, HUGE difference. LOL!
[/quote]
This. Basically… thread is done. Fun fact about weed, Bruce Lee died from eating hashish (made to be smoked, not eaten, as it was grown and processed in a dirty environment back in the day)… and is the only known example of death by marijuana ingestion.[/quote]
Getting smashed once a week is undoubtedly more detrimental for the bodybuilder than having a few joints on the weekend. Don’t see what the big deal is?[/quote]
I don’t support getting hammered from alcohol either. It happens, I do it on a rare occasion, but definitely try to avoid full-on intoxication. I don’t see how intoxication by alcohol once per week or high off weed once a week are any different from one another. They both have enough negative consequences to the body. Both have been show to negatively affect testosterone. If you’re going to do it recreationally then fine, pick your poison; but neither are training supplements no matter how badly one wants to defend either of them for that purpose.
Getting smashed once a week is undoubtedly more detrimental for the bodybuilder than having a few joints on the weekend. Don’t see what the big deal is?[/quote]
I don’t support getting hammered from alcohol either. It happens, I do it on a rare occasion, but definitely try to avoid full-on intoxication. I don’t see how intoxication by alcohol once per week or high off weed once a week are any different from one another. They both have enough negative consequences to the body. Both have been show to negatively affect testosterone. If you’re going to do it recreationally then fine, pick your poison; but neither are training supplements no matter how badly one wants to defend either of them for that purpose. [/quote]
Marijuana is in fact a medicinal drug. Alcohol is NOT.
I don’t think defending either as a supplement is a good idea, but comparing the two is an even worse idea.
Getting smashed once a week is undoubtedly more detrimental for the bodybuilder than having a few joints on the weekend. Don’t see what the big deal is?[/quote]
I don’t support getting hammered from alcohol either. It happens, I do it on a rare occasion, but definitely try to avoid full-on intoxication. I don’t see how intoxication by alcohol once per week or high off weed once a week are any different from one another. They both have enough negative consequences to the body. Both have been show to negatively affect testosterone. If you’re going to do it recreationally then fine, pick your poison; but neither are training supplements no matter how badly one wants to defend either of them for that purpose. [/quote]
Weed CAN be a supplement if it is used as a supplement. As the above poster mentioned, it can also be used medicinally for a VAST range of ailments. That being said, it can also be used recreationally or abused. If a tall, heavy individual with a very active lifestyle and a high metabolism needs 6000 calories to gain optimally but his gag reflex kicks in after 5300, guess what? A bit of weed at the end of the week can increase the amount of calories you get in for that week in a relatively healthy , stress-free way.
Caffeine can be used as a supplement too. Caffeine can also disrupt sleep, dehydrate, cause crashes, lead to tolerance, lead to dependency, and users may have to brave a week of withdrawals every now and then to reset tolerance. Just because these negative aspects of caffeine use exist doesn’t mean it CAN’T or SHOULD NEVER be used as a supplement by anyone ever. You just have to weight the pros and cons, figure our how you react to it and manipulate your patterns of usage accordingly.
There’s no point making absolute statements like “Weed CAN’T be used as a supplement”. It really depends on a number of variables. In my experience, it can make a big difference when used a certain way and ruin motivation when used another way. I also don’t feel the need to defend weed to justify anything since I don’t use it anymore - just think people should be a little more open minded about it.
Oh and to keep things relevant… JW + 531 RILY ROX!
Getting smashed once a week is undoubtedly more detrimental for the bodybuilder than having a few joints on the weekend. Don’t see what the big deal is?[/quote]
I don’t support getting hammered from alcohol either. It happens, I do it on a rare occasion, but definitely try to avoid full-on intoxication. I don’t see how intoxication by alcohol once per week or high off weed once a week are any different from one another. They both have enough negative consequences to the body. Both have been show to negatively affect testosterone. If you’re going to do it recreationally then fine, pick your poison; but neither are training supplements no matter how badly one wants to defend either of them for that purpose. [/quote]
Eh, I wouldn’t say that necessarily. The physiological effects of pot and booze aren’t the same, aside from maybe some subjective intoxicant effects. Even similarities in some aspects (e.g. hormonal profile) can’t truly be equated because it’s a matter of extent. There are a lot of studies going both ways on the hormonal effects of pot. With booze, it’s pretty well accepted that E2 rises and test drops. Chronic alcoholics can get gyno.
Booze has a lot of other “special” effects, too. Everyone knows about it’s hepatotoxicity, but it is also metabolized to acetyl-CoA, which is problematic for lifters. In effect, it stimulates catabolism of amino acids and carbs, while promoting synthesis of fats. Even if you eat something good after drinking, the metabolic products of alcohol are still going to direct
your liver to process the good food in ways we don’t want. While I like to have a drink once in a blue moon, alcohol’s probably the worst drug a lifter can choose.
Oh yes, and I must say that your last post was very reasonable. Maybe I read a little too much into that earlier one. It just gets my goat a little when someone says, “if you’re serious about training, you must/must not do X”. I think that what’s “serious” looks different for different people. Some people might focus more on obsessively tracking macros, some on carefully analyzing weak points and adjusting their training, and still others might focus on maximum efficiency to work within the confines of their busy lives. Of course, most of us will focus to at least some extent on all of them.
I define “serious” as someone who is willing to do what it takes in order to continue making progress, in whatever way they define progress.
Marijuana is in fact a medicinal drug. Alcohol is NOT.
I don’t think defending either as a supplement is a good idea, but comparing the two is an even worse idea.
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Never heard of medicinal alcohol?
Alcohol’s got a long history of use as a therapeutic agent. It’s still used as a disinfectant and as a solvent in a lot of medications.
Now, we may have since found better alternatives to alcohol for medicinal purposes, but that doesn’t mean alcohol can’t be used medicinally. The same thing will probably happen to weed at some point too. I could definitely foresee how chemical changes to the molecule to fix ROA issues or creating a delayed release prodrug or something could be useful.
Alcohol can be used medicinally in the treatment of antifreeze poisoning. I should not have mentioned this, someone will probably google antifreeze and want to start a thread asking about antifreeze supplementation to lose weight as it causes nausea.
Its all just relative risk benefit in the person choosing to supplement.
[quote]Karado wrote:
…No evidence it kills brain cells whatsoever.
[/quote]
There certainly is. Most certainly.
The proof is in the pudding. The mustard pudding.
Most of what you type on this website has the smell of cannabis intoxication drifting around it. I’m serious, it appears you’re high most of the time when you post.
Whether you were stupid from the get-go or you’ve lost brain cells as a result of dancing with Mary Jane is debatable. [/quote]
I love when people say there is evidence for something, most certainly and than give absolutely zero evidence to support it.
There’s endless medical uses for cannabis. To make a blanket statement that it kills brain cells is flat wrong. It’s sad how many people are naïve about the subject and are stuck in this weed makes you stupid propaganda.
Again, whether or not it kills brain cells is irrelevant, as brain cells are not limited to a finite amount. THC impairs memory function depending on dosage used, duration used, and amount of time since use, but unless you are an airline pilot or perform a similar technical occupation, mild use will see little to no impairment of everyday skills. (one study was performed with airline pilots on a simulator. Before smoking, they did fine. Afterwards, some did fine, others could barely function… some of them didn’t get back to their original level of proficiency until weeks later, while again, others were fine.)
The belief is that a lot of people think when weed is smoked it kills brain cells. My contention is that the reason you see stoners that are seemingly “dumb” or “slow” or whatever adjective you want to use to describe them it is not because they killed their brain cells but instead they stopped learning and don’t effectively utilize the ones they have.
[quote]StevenF wrote:
The belief is that a lot of people think when weed is smoked it kills brain cells. My contention is that the reason you see stoners that are seemingly “dumb” or “slow” or whatever adjective you want to use to describe them it is not because they killed their brain cells but instead they stopped learning and don’t effectively utilize the ones they have. [/quote]
Further your point, if they start smoking in development stages, those issues carry forward. I would imagine any drug (alcohol, caffeine, etc) have a big impact on a person during the development stages of their life…Age 0 - 18 or maybe even 21, but probably less so on that end.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
Saying Weed and Alcohol both have the same medicinal value is a stretch my friend. [/quote]
LOL, I didn’t say THAT! Not one bit. Weed has much more medicinal potential IMO. Even studies conducted by NIDA (who aren’t known for showing much lenience towards illicit drugs, even in their studies) cited that a good dose of pot is roughly equivalent to 120mg of codeine in terms of analgesia. Lower addiction potential and very few drug interactions (whereas opiates have a shit ton) make it a very attractive option for short term relief of mild-moderate pain. I don’t think McNeill would appreciate that much, though.
I’m not convinced about some of the other indications, though.
What I said was that weed has some dosing control/timing, and ROA issues that could make synthetic/semisynthetic cannabinoids a more attractive option medicinally. And also because drug companies can turn a bigger profit that way. There already are some such drugs out there (e.g. nabilone), and that shit is pretty pricey.
As far as the “killing brain cells” debate goes:
Read my long-ass post on page 1. Don’t be lazy fuckers.
The TL;DR summary:
Your body kills more brain cells than pot ever will via pruning. Killing brain cells is not the same thing as causing long-term cognitive impairment, but they’re often, but not always, associated. There’s also the issue of lack of correlation to cognition. That is to say we most often can’t extrapolate to functional changes if all we know is structural effect. There’s also the issue of how me measure neurotoxicity. A lot of studies look at changes in brain activity or blood flow, which aren’t the same thing.
If we’re interested in cognitive effects of weed, we should be drawing our conclusions more from functional (i.e. cognitive and maybe behavioural science) studies rather than structural ones.