I personally wouldn’t use it in a weight room but I find it can be useful for flexibility sessions on off days. Yesterday I “discovered” a link between my scapula problem and my lower back issues - I was doing a version of the knee circles in the Agile 8, standing on one leg and circling the knee as wide as possible. Also try naked deep squats and hang out in the bottom position doing various stretches while you’re down there!
Yep, I’m into smoking sativa’s pre training. I usually will hit a bongload or two before I walk to the gym… I tend to like strains high in THCv, they are kinda rare but if they are available Durban Poison or Jack the ripper are the two strains that are high in that compound.
Otherwise whatever purest sativa I can find is what I use. I also use it with coffee. I believe in magnesium, potassium and some salts and simple sugars for an intra, but I don’t use any pro supplements, like the kind you get from Mexico or only online that are injected. Not that I have a problem with them, just they should be used by world beaters or pro’s, or guys seeking to become pro which I’m not, but only because I got started a bit late in this younger mans game, I’m already well into the submasters and not especially talented outside of the overhead press/ push, which means nothing in competition.
For lifting it’s all about the intensity and the outlet for aggression. I think normally we think cannabis is going to cool you down and make you mellow, but if you are in a state of mind where you are very aggressive, having sharp mental focus really helps. For some, I’m sure cannabis will give them the opposite, but in my experience it helps. And the music is that much more intense.
Anyhow. That’s my two. I think there is something kinda cool going on with THCv, but good luck ever finding out.
I’m an ex smoker, smoked heavy from 15 to 25 from 25 to 30 went from occasionally to none. I always here people say, and used to think my self I’m better at X when I’m high. but I’ve never met anyone that has actually tested that out unbiasedly. Its always anecdotal justification. Its like that episode of Family guy where Peter and Lois start a folk group and get high, and they’re great… in there own mind. lol.
Its amazing how different the world looks depending on what side of the line your on. I went from seeing smokers as the “cool” people who saw threw the bullshit of society and lived buy there own rules, to finding out most, not ALL, are just trying to escapee reality, dodge responsibility, and are in complete denial/ have no clue of the all actual negative effects it has on there life. If your an occasional smoker that’s one thing but I was in it deep for over a decade and it has some very real negative side effects.
Pot smokers are like religious freaks, it doesn’t matter what you say or what you can prove, their mind is already made up.
[quote]ns182 wrote:
I think medical evidence through new technology is a bit more effective than an egg and a frying pan.
http://www.amenclinics.com/about-us-23/the-science-2/spect-gallery/item/alcohol-and-drug-abuse [/quote]
WARNING: This will be long. You have been warned.
Yes, but there are problems in studying substance use in so many other ways. For example, occasional, moderate use does not constitute chronic, long-term abuse, so we have no way of knowing whether the extent to which the effect is similar or even if there’s any relation at all. Second, the possibilities of confounding factors are VERY high with studies like these. Drug abuse is correlated with use/abuse of other substances, comorbid mental illness, low SES, and everything associated with these - poor nutrition/hygiene, lack of sleep, exposure to environmental toxins, high stress, etc.
Finally, the problem with neuroscience is that it is difficult to connect changes in the structure of or perfusion to brain components with cognitive changes, as individual brain structure is just that - individualized. Even if we can definitively show that morphological changes constitute damage (and I think that some cases, such as that of chronic alcohol abuse, we can probably all agree on), individualized differences and neuroplasticity may mean that structural changes may not have much effect, or may not have the effect we might expect. It should also be noted that mental illnesses are often correlated with morphological changes. Any chemotherapy for mental illness involving psychoactive drugs also involves drugs that may affect structure, and almost certainly affect perfusion.
For this reason, I am of the opinion that properly conducted cognitive studies are superior to the neuroscientific approach to this issue because they approach the issue from a functional perspective. That is to say, neuroscience can tell us how structure is affected, but has difficulty explaining what this means. Cognitive science gives us the results that matter: does this affect memory, personality, intelligence, etc.? Of course, all the other issues with confounds and such are still present, and this isn’t to say that the cognitive approach doesn’t have its own specific problems (which I won’t go into here).
There are also, of course, issues with science itself. It’s very easy to conduct/interpret studies in a way to support a preexisting bias/agenda. Publication bias is also, unfortunately, a very strong effect which means science isn’t really as objective as we’d like it to be. What I’m referring to here is the simple fact that studies that find results are MUCH more likely to be published (and tend to make a bigger splash when they are published) or even written up in the first place, than studies that “fail to find a link”.
I am not trying to take a pro- or anti-drug stance here, nor am I trying to make specific claims about the effects of these drugs. Rather, I’m trying to highlight the difficulty of studying drug use in an objective manner and the issues present in disseminating scientific information. What I’m advocating is for the individual to possess some shred of critical thinking skills and make educated decisions for oneself. If you have researched the topic carefully and with a critical eye and believe that your life will be enhanced by responsible, moderated intake of some chemical substance and the risk is acceptable, then I fully support your decision to use it. As mkral said though, don’t use some BS excuse to justify why you want to get high.
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
These question always make me laugh - people looking for anyone to tell them what they want to hear. Listen, if you are at the top of your profession, making a ton of money and have everything you need in life - smoke away. If you are making change and hustling Ding Dongs at the local gas station - you can’t afford any more loss of brain cells.
People need to realize that if they are stupid they don’t get to have the same latitude that people who are intelligent/have their shit together. I really don’t care what people do with their bodies - drugs should be legal. But just because you can doesn’t mean you should. [/quote]
Agree x100
I also don’t believe that smoking pot is conducive to a hobby that requires organization, controlled and directed aggression (training), focus and above all - money $$$ (food, gym, supplements). If your a serious lifter who cares about progress and your spending $150 a week on weed, and that’s stopping you from buying a f*cking lifting belt/protein powder/gym fee’s - you’ve got your priorities wrong.
I agree with monatu…
You should get your priorities straighten out and then decide what you want to do. In my opinion, try to stay away from weed and just focus on your training and the necessities that go with it.
There’s enough information out there suggesting that marijuana affects your testosterone and estrogen, not sure why you’d want to take it if you’re serious about your lifting.
I think you are looking for people to agree with you more than trying to find the real answer. If you want to smoke, go for it. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that it is a good training tool.
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the dizziness that often comes with it does not make it very safe to have a heavy bar on your back.
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Squats, deads, bench, etc are all skills that need to be learned. It is about muscle memory as well as muscular strength. I think it is possible for marijuana to make impede muscle memory.
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It often increases paranoia, meaning increased cortisol and inhibited growth.
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bad for lungs.
If you want to smoke, by all means go for it. But don’t fool yourself into thinking that you are doing it for training. And yeah im sure some accomplished people will recommend it/or do it. But that’s really just confirmation bias if you are using those examples. And yeah, michael phelps smoked and I’m sure that’s how he became a fast swimmer and not because of his training/genetic gifts. Correlation doesn’t equal causation. It was just as ridiculous when people started drinking their eggs instead of cooking them after seeing Rocky do it.
Post workout weed was a huge aid in helping me gain my first 15Kg as I was a skinny kid with a small appetite. I discovered the gym and weed at the same time, and was lifting maximal weights high volume style for up to 2 hours per session. The weed was my saviour as it enabled me to force a copious amount of (fast) food down my throat to supplement the ridiculous demands of my overly intense, poorly programmed workouts - but as a noob, it worked well.
Fast forward 2 years and weed became the new focal point of my life. My reward system had changed so that weed could now provide instantaneous rewards whenever I wanted them. When I did try to muster the energy to hit the gym, the tired hangover effect (which I get quite badly) ensured that my CNS was fast asleep throughout the workout.
Lessons to be learnt here:
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There’s a big difference - and for some people, a fine line - between sensible “supplementation” and overuse/ abuse. It isn’t physically addictive but it’s precisely because of if its incredibly benign nature that it can be so deceptive in extending and wrapping its THC-laden tentacles around all aspects of your being. Before you know it, your best friend’s a rasta man, pizza has become a dietary staple and the iron game is nothing more than a distant, fading memory…
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Weed affects everyone differently. For some people it offers enhanced creativity, an ability to focus, an energy boost (certain sativas, at least) etc, which makes it a far more helpful tool for them than it does for me. Constant weed smoking made me tired, stupid, happy and hungry. Figure out, with an objective mind, what it does for you before you qualify it’s efficacy as a tool in your training toolbox. Also, if you have poor self-control, weed is probably not for you. I didn’t intend to become a daily stoner for 4-5 years when I smoked my first joint, but that’s what happened. Know thyself!
You couldn’t just tell yourself that you needed to eat and make sure you ate everything you need? You basically needed weed to give you munchies so you could eat enough food? I would attribute your gains to being a kid with a ridiculous testosterone level, probably at or near its peak, and just the volume you put in there. You may gone further without the weed to be honest. Weed has been show to increase estrogen and reduce testosterone, two things you dont’ want when you’re training. As a man those are two things you never want.
[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
You couldn’t just tell yourself that you needed to eat and make sure you ate everything you need? You basically needed weed to give you munchies so you could eat enough food? I would attribute your gains to being a kid with a ridiculous testosterone level, probably at or near its peak, and just the volume you put in there. You may gone further without the weed to be honest. Weed has been show to increase estrogen and reduce testosterone, two things you dont’ want when you’re training. As a man those are two things you never want. [/quote]
Funny, I just read an article that stated weed increased testosterone. Weird how all of these findings contradict each other.
[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
You couldn’t just tell yourself that you needed to eat and make sure you ate everything you need? You basically needed weed to give you munchies so you could eat enough food? I would attribute your gains to being a kid with a ridiculous testosterone level, probably at or near its peak, and just the volume you put in there. You may gone further without the weed to be honest. Weed has been show to increase estrogen and reduce testosterone, two things you dont’ want when you’re training. As a man those are two things you never want. [/quote]
Yes, I probably could have told myself I needed to eat and gotten bigger, but as a 16 year old kid who had only just discovered the gym, the gym it was simply not my priority. Gaining weight at an optimal rate is a full time job for people who are not accustomed to eating large amounts, and at that stage of my life I was going to the gym for fun. I attribute my weight gain to a number of things, and the calories I consumed were a big part of that and not only did weed give me the push I needed to get those calories down, but it taught me the value of eating big for making progress in the gym.
I am aware of its estrogenic effects and as someone who has abused this wonderful plant, I am intimately aware of its benefits and drawbacks for me, which I think is reflected my post. Overall, I think it has a negative effect for most but if used sensibly and infrequently, I think it’s benefits can be harnessed to make it a useful tool for some.
You can make whatever argument you want about weed, but weed as a motivator to eat to succeed in the gym is a poor reason in my opinion. Motivation to succeed must come from within YOU, not a friend, not your parents, not a boss, not a wife or girlfriend, and certainly not from a drug or supplement, but you and only you.
A wise man typed: …“you can’t afford any more loss of brain cells.”
Wow, someone is a victim of believing urban myths…No evidence it kills brain cells whatsoever.
I think as appetite stimulus and sleep aid, cannabis is a fantastic choice of “supplement”. The only solid case for negative effects in the entirety of the scientific literature show that individuals who use cannabis extensively prior to adulthood (18-21…I forget the exact average age) are more likely to develop to psychological disorders that they are already predisposed to (genetically).
Other than that, smoking of anything is going to impact your conditioning, so you may consider edibles as an alternative. Any judgmental views on cannabis stem from seeing too much propaganda and lack of knowledge regarding the state of the research.
Fuck propaganda go out and talk to potheads, they are just like any other drug addict. denial and justification. people make jokes, I personally know people that pawn shit, steal, and my girl friends brother died in car accident where the driver way high on weed and nothing else. like I said earlier, I was a smoker for 15 years and you couldn’t tell me anything, when I decided to get clean I saw pot for what it is. A drug. nothing more, nothing less. Not magic. We have hundreds of drugs at our disposal none of them magic, ALL have the potential to be harmful. Tylenol can get rid of a headache, drop your fever, or kill your liver.
[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
There’s enough information out there suggesting that marijuana affects your testosterone and estrogen, not sure why you’d want to take it if you’re serious about your lifting. [/quote]
By the same logic, if you’re serious about lifting, I’m not sure why you would bother getting a job when you can focus on improving your training protocol 24/7 and mooch off others. Or better yet, open up your own gym.
Absolutist logic.
The reality is that NOBODY will get 8+hrs of sleep every night, stick to your diet every day, and never get drunk or puff on a joint ever again. Unless you are a professional athlete in an iron sport (and even then), life gets in the way. Sometimes it’s nice to have a late night out with friends instead of going to bed early. Just not every night. It’s called balance. Feel free to call me out for not being serious about lifting.
What this really is is a matter of extent. I don’t think anybody responded, “Hurray for weed! It’s a miracle drug that will solve all your problems and make you hyooooge and shredded, all the while being completely benign, so smoke up 10x a day!”
That is to say, if you’re going to do it, don’t be a dumbass about it, and you probably won’t suffer major consequences. I don’t see much value training-wise, but whatever floats your boat.
For the health-conscious user, here’s a word to the wise: the smoking is almost certainly the greatest health-risk. Eating is a superior method, but there’s a better way: make a tincture. It is a very effective and discrete method that has the advantage of incredible ease of dosage regulation. Stored properly, it does keep for surprisingly long, too. The only disadvantage is preparation time (but only once per batch). If you choose to try this, do NOT store it in a plastic bottle, as you will require an organic solvent (such as high proof alcohol) to extract the cannabinoids. Aromatics and other carcinogenic organic (and worse, lol, potentially xenoestrogenic) compounds are present in many plastics and will dissolve quite readily.
Wow, this thread is still goin? Fair enough, I’ve got some free time.
[quote]Dangles wrote:
I think as appetite stimulus and sleep aid, cannabis is a fantastic choice of “supplement”. The only solid case for negative effects in the entirety of the scientific literature show that individuals who use cannabis extensively prior to adulthood (18-21…I forget the exact average age) are more likely to develop to psychological disorders that they are already predisposed to (genetically).
Other than that, smoking of anything is going to impact your conditioning, so you may consider edibles as an alternative. Any judgmental views on cannabis stem from seeing too much propaganda and lack of knowledge regarding the state of the research.[/quote]
Okay, any scientific research is generally open to interpretation, and you are welcome to your opinions, but if you think all the negative findings on marijuana are ‘propaganda’… I guess I can’t really think of much that needs to be said here.
[quote]rabidshrimp wrote:
Post workout weed was a huge aid in helping me gain my first 15Kg as I was a skinny kid with a small appetite. I discovered the gym and weed at the same time, and was lifting maximal weights high volume style for up to 2 hours per session. The weed was my saviour as it enabled me to force a copious amount of (fast) food down my throat to supplement the ridiculous demands of my overly intense, poorly programmed workouts - but as a noob, it worked well.
[/quote]
I’m glad you got to where you are now under less than ideal circumstance, but if I may be blunt and realistic: the way you went about it was crap, and you know it. Kids reading this site should be guided to healthier (and cheaper) options than pot+fast food.
[quote]Karado wrote:
A wise man typed: …“you can’t afford any more loss of brain cells.”
Wow, someone is a victim of believing urban myths…No evidence it kills brain cells whatsoever.
[/quote]
Maybe, but I can find you a dozen research projects that suggest long term residual cognitive function loss, short term memory loss, and other things, if you want to split hairs. Maybe the cell isn’t dead, but if it doesn’t work as intended you get some of the same results.
As for the folks brining up research/articles in defense of weed: sure, it’s out there. Theres also ‘proof’ that alcohol rehydrates faster than water alone after intense exercise. I like to drink but Im not kidding myself thinking its a ‘supplement’. It’s a very clearly negative habit, as is smoking weed. And weed, granted, isn’t that bad, and probly better than alcohol, but you guys have to realize you are RATIONALIZING your use.
If you like it, go for it. It’s not that bad if you have it under control. Just quit trying to tell people its good.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Jaynick77 wrote:
There’s enough information out there suggesting that marijuana affects your testosterone and estrogen, not sure why you’d want to take it if you’re serious about your lifting. [/quote]
By the same logic, if you’re serious about lifting, I’m not sure why you would bother getting a job when you can focus on improving your training protocol 24/7 and mooch off others. Or better yet, open up your own gym.
Absolutist logic.
The reality is that NOBODY will get 8+hrs of sleep every night, stick to your diet every day, and never get drunk or puff on a joint ever again. Unless you are a professional athlete in an iron sport (and even then), life gets in the way. Sometimes it’s nice to have a late night out with friends instead of going to bed early. Just not every night. It’s called balance. Feel free to call me out for not being serious about lifting.
What this really is is a matter of extent. I don’t think anybody responded, “Hurray for weed! It’s a miracle drug that will solve all your problems and make you hyooooge and shredded, all the while being completely benign, so smoke up 10x a day!”
That is to say, if you’re going to do it, don’t be a dumbass about it, and you probably won’t suffer major consequences. I don’t see much value training-wise, but whatever floats your boat.
For the health-conscious user, here’s a word to the wise: the smoking is almost certainly the greatest health-risk. Eating is a superior method, but there’s a better way: make a tincture. It is a very effective and discrete method that has the advantage of incredible ease of dosage regulation. Stored properly, it does keep for surprisingly long, too. The only disadvantage is preparation time (but only once per batch). If you choose to try this, do NOT store it in a plastic bottle, as you will require an organic solvent (such as high proof alcohol) to extract the cannabinoids. Aromatics and other carcinogenic organic (and worse, lol, potentially xenoestrogenic) compounds are present in many plastics and will dissolve quite readily.[/quote]
By the way, this is a good post on the other side of the fence. Lot of times everyone comes off as fanatic one way or the other, and my post probly leans that way, but there is a very significant idea here.
[quote]monatu wrote:
[quote]Jim Wendler wrote:
These question always make me laugh - people looking for anyone to tell them what they want to hear. Listen, if you are at the top of your profession, making a ton of money and have everything you need in life - smoke away. If you are making change and hustling Ding Dongs at the local gas station - you can’t afford any more loss of brain cells.
People need to realize that if they are stupid they don’t get to have the same latitude that people who are intelligent/have their shit together. I really don’t care what people do with their bodies - drugs should be legal. But just because you can doesn’t mean you should. [/quote]
Agree x100
I also don’t believe that smoking pot is conducive to a hobby that requires organization, controlled and directed aggression (training), focus and above all - money $$$ (food, gym, supplements). If your a serious lifter who cares about progress and your spending $150 a week on weed, and that’s stopping you from buying a f*cking lifting belt/protein powder/gym fee’s - you’ve got your priorities wrong. [/quote]
Who says I’m spending 150 a week on weed? Who says I don’t own a belt, I own a p2 powerbelt. I have spectacular food available, beef from private grassfed ranches, fish if I wish for it though right now I don’t trust anything from the pacific, greens and berries grown local and organic. Whole foods, Trader joes, farmers markets, It’s a food wonderland here.
Weed is everywhere and cheap, if you have a card like I do you can grow your own, trade, buy from clubs. Many folks grow in their back yards. Like I said it’s part of the culture in certain parts. I’m not trying to make excuses, just not everyone in the country is there yet, so there are going to be people who look at it as purely a crutch or whatever while they go out and really increase their estrogen and lose brain cells drinking beer and liquor. Not that I don’t drink or am critical of it. Just speaking the truth. Do I need it? Nah. Do I think there may be benefits to it for lifters? Yes. Which is why I brought it up here. I didn’t mean to blow up anyone’s spot, just honest discussion.