Set Up, Form, Power
Strength in lifts similiar to the bench press doesn’t mean shit if you can’t set up and get leg drive.
That is the problem with westside. It doesn’t stress set up enough. It has you doing all the exercises to help you bench when you don’t even know how to bench.
Do yourself a favor and do one of two things. Get a MM DVD and learn their set up or visit a hardcore gym in your area and learn from them. Try and find the most technical bencher out there.
[quote]Ramo wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
So far you have had many people shoot in the dark at what your problem is. But no one has mentioned form as an issue. If you are weak off the chest you may have poor set up. You may be flairing your arms. You may not be staying tight in the bottom. There are a host of problems besides a muscle weakness.
Post a video of yourself benching from the front and the side. That will shed some light on the problem.
meat
I’m not sure about being able to get a vid up anytime soon…I’ll try.
But Meat, like you suggested, my set-up is not good, I don’t really understand leg drive, or at least I can’t do it, I can’t stay tight at the bottom w/ heavier weights, my elbows flare out on the way down and I don’t feel like I have good eccentric control of the bar.
I can knock off a couple strict standing military presses w/ 225, but I can only bench about 315 on a good day. I’m much stronger off a 2-board, I can hit at least 4 good paused reps off a 2-board w/ my max bench.[/quote]
[quote]Ramo wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
So far you have had many people shoot in the dark at what your problem is. But no one has mentioned form as an issue. If you are weak off the chest you may have poor set up. You may be flairing your arms. You may not be staying tight in the bottom. There are a host of problems besides a muscle weakness.
Post a video of yourself benching from the front and the side. That will shed some light on the problem.
meat
I’m not sure about being able to get a vid up anytime soon…I’ll try.
But Meat, like you suggested, my set-up is not good, I don’t really understand leg drive, or at least I can’t do it, I can’t stay tight at the bottom w/ heavier weights, my elbows flare out on the way down and I don’t feel like I have good eccentric control of the bar.
I can knock off a couple strict standing military presses w/ 225, but I can only bench about 315 on a good day. I’m much stronger off a 2-board, I can hit at least 4 good paused reps off a 2-board w/ my max bench.[/quote]
Form is a big part of a big bench. If you are flaring your elbows on the way down, you won’t have any power off your chest. If you try and are unable to tuck the elbows on the way down you definitely have a lat/bicep weakness. rows, pulldowns, deads, and curls are a few of the exercises you need to start doing. but you also need to start practicing tucking the elbows on the way down.
you mentioned also that you don’t understand leg drive- once the bar is touching the chest you drive through your feet into the floor. some people stay on their toes others are flat footed. it will depend on your style as to which works for you. some people also get a huge arch while others do not. the key is timing the leg drive to your initial press off the chest.
of course you will be stronger off a two board then full ROM. The two board limits the range of motion. That’s the whole point of using boards.
I would suggest reading all you can about setting up properly and try them all. you will then have to find the style that best suites your needs. I just read an article at Elite fitness that walks one through the setup of benching.
I think once you perfect your setup you will see your bench go up. then the real fun starts. once you perfect your form then you get to work on your weaknesses. don’t put the cart in front of the horse by trying different variations until you have the form perfected.
meat
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
I think once you perfect your setup you will see your bench go up. then the real fun starts. once you perfect your form then you get to work on your weaknesses. don’t put the cart in front of the horse by trying different variations until you have the form perfected.
meat [/quote]
I think this is really good advice. I don’t see board pressing to be overly useful right now if you aren’t weak on your lockout. If you are weak off your chest that’s where you should be training.
I do think the speed work would help, but meat is right, form is critical. I’m still working on it myself before I get into any boards, chains, bands, etc.
I agree, Meat…for sure.
I really hit a big point in understanding bench technique about a 2 weeks ago.
Wendler always about doing his “phantom bench” where he will mimick the bench press technique when he’s ever just standing around.
When I tried doing this, I just focused on making my hands go low on my chest. When I “got it,” I focused on my elbow positioning and where depending on how much I tucked, it would leave my hands.
I previously thought of tucking the elbows as a passive thing. But really, you want to PULL your elbows down and in HARD. Try it just standing; get in your bench position. Chest up, hold the imaginary bar- and then focus on pulling your elbows down to your sides. Imagine really heavy bands around your wrists and you have to pull them from face level down to chest level. You should absolutely FEEL your lats contracting hard, even when your using the bar or imagining one.
Once you can get that, I’m pretty sure you’ll have the tuck.
-MAtt
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Ramo wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
So far you have had many people shoot in the dark at what your problem is. But no one has mentioned form as an issue. If you are weak off the chest you may have poor set up. You may be flairing your arms. You may not be staying tight in the bottom. There are a host of problems besides a muscle weakness.
Post a video of yourself benching from the front and the side. That will shed some light on the problem.
meat
I’m not sure about being able to get a vid up anytime soon…I’ll try.
But Meat, like you suggested, my set-up is not good, I don’t really understand leg drive, or at least I can’t do it, I can’t stay tight at the bottom w/ heavier weights, my elbows flare out on the way down and I don’t feel like I have good eccentric control of the bar.
I can knock off a couple strict standing military presses w/ 225, but I can only bench about 315 on a good day. I’m much stronger off a 2-board, I can hit at least 4 good paused reps off a 2-board w/ my max bench.
Form is a big part of a big bench. If you are flaring your elbows on the way down, you won’t have any power off your chest. If you try and are unable to tuck the elbows on the way down you definitely have a lat/bicep weakness. rows, pulldowns, deads, and curls are a few of the exercises you need to start doing. but you also need to start practicing tucking the elbows on the way down.
you mentioned also that you don’t understand leg drive- once the bar is touching the chest you drive through your feet into the floor. some people stay on their toes others are flat footed. it will depend on your style as to which works for you. some people also get a huge arch while others do not. the key is timing the leg drive to your initial press off the chest.
of course you will be stronger off a two board then full ROM. The two board limits the range of motion. That’s the whole point of using boards.
I would suggest reading all you can about setting up properly and try them all. you will then have to find the style that best suites your needs. I just read an article at Elite fitness that walks one through the setup of benching.
I think once you perfect your setup you will see your bench go up. then the real fun starts. once you perfect your form then you get to work on your weaknesses. don’t put the cart in front of the horse by trying different variations until you have the form perfected.
meat [/quote]
[quote]Florida Titan wrote:
Do yourself a favor and do one of two things. Get a MM DVD and learn their set up or visit a hardcore gym in your area and learn from them. Try and find the most technical bencher out there. [/quote]
MM?
[quote]4est wrote:
Florida Titan wrote:
Do yourself a favor and do one of two things. Get a MM DVD and learn their set up or visit a hardcore gym in your area and learn from them. Try and find the most technical bencher out there.
MM?
[/quote]
Metal Militia
[quote]Matt McGorry wrote:
I agree, Meat…for sure.
I really hit a big point in understanding bench technique about a 2 weeks ago.
Wendler always about doing his “phantom bench” where he will mimick the bench press technique when he’s even just standing around.
When I tried doing this, I just focused on making my hands go low on my chest. When I “got it,” I focused on my elbow positioning and where depending on how much I tucked, it would leave my hands.
I previously thought of tucking the elbows as a passive thing. But really, you want to PULL your elbows down and in HARD. Try it just standing; get in your bench position. Chest up, hold the imaginary bar- and then focus on pulling your elbows down to your sides. Imagine really heavy bands around your wrists and you have to pull them from face level down to chest level. You should absolutely FEEL your lats contracting hard, even when your using the bar or imagining one.
Once you can get that, I’m pretty sure you’ll have the tuck.
-MAtt
maraudermeat wrote:
Ramo wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
So far you have had many people shoot in the dark at what your problem is. But no one has mentioned form as an issue. If you are weak off the chest you may have poor set up. You may be flairing your arms. You may not be staying tight in the bottom. There are a host of problems besides a muscle weakness.
Post a video of yourself benching from the front and the side. That will shed some light on the problem.
meat
I’m not sure about being able to get a vid up anytime soon…I’ll try.
But Meat, like you suggested, my set-up is not good, I don’t really understand leg drive, or at least I can’t do it, I can’t stay tight at the bottom w/ heavier weights, my elbows flare out on the way down and I don’t feel like I have good eccentric control of the bar.
I can knock off a couple strict standing military presses w/ 225, but I can only bench about 315 on a good day. I’m much stronger off a 2-board, I can hit at least 4 good paused reps off a 2-board w/ my max bench.
Form is a big part of a big bench. If you are flaring your elbows on the way down, you won’t have any power off your chest. If you try and are unable to tuck the elbows on the way down you definitely have a lat/bicep weakness. rows, pulldowns, deads, and curls are a few of the exercises you need to start doing. but you also need to start practicing tucking the elbows on the way down.
you mentioned also that you don’t understand leg drive- once the bar is touching the chest you drive through your feet into the floor. some people stay on their toes others are flat footed. it will depend on your style as to which works for you. some people also get a huge arch while others do not. the key is timing the leg drive to your initial press off the chest.
of course you will be stronger off a two board then full ROM. The two board limits the range of motion. That’s the whole point of using boards.
I would suggest reading all you can about setting up properly and try them all. you will then have to find the style that best suites your needs. I just read an article at Elite fitness that walks one through the setup of benching.
I think once you perfect your setup you will see your bench go up. then the real fun starts. once you perfect your form then you get to work on your weaknesses. don’t put the cart in front of the horse by trying different variations until you have the form perfected.
meat
[/quote]
This is good advice! Also, follow what Wendler told me when I met him in person “if your form does not hurt, you ain’t doing it right!” This is true. Your form should be so tight in a squat or bench that even when benching with the bar, you can feel exertion.