Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press

Training Bodybuilding
1

Just a few questions regarding these important exercises. I have done a lot of reading both on this website and else where, but there are still a few questions that remain. I have only been doing these exercises for about 3 months, but was a seasoned exerciser before beginning them.

Let’s begin with a couple general questions about the squat and deadlift.

  1. I notice that these two exercises not only cause the muscles worked to get tired (as other exercises) but also the entire body to get tired. At times I actually feel a little queazy after some reps on these exercise, and actually feel a slight tension headache. It quickly subsides, but I was wondering if there are any ways to help one overcome this effect?

  2. I do squats and deadlifts (regular style and sumo style) during the same workout. What would be the advantages and disadvantages of doing these on separate days, and since they work similar muscles how many days off would one want to take between them?

While I seemed to be getting the groove for the squat, the deadlift and bench still are not quite there. Let’s begin with the deadlift.

  1. The other day I noticed I rocked forward on my toes during the last few pulls on the deadlift. I am certain that my form was collapsing a little. Would I be correct in saying that one should be able to deadlift entirely on their heels?

  2. As far as form, would it be correct in assuming that the bar should stay in contact with the legs, and if one were to place a mirror in front of them they should be able to maintain eye contact with their reflection during the entire exercise?

  3. I know there are a variety of opinions on using hooks to help with grip. Myself, I believe working the grip without the hooks is a big benefit, but find there is a certain point where my hands fail. For example doing 10 reps the hands were good for about 6 reps. Would it be more beneficial to do 6 reps, then put on the hooks and complete the last 4; or, do 6 reps and then take whatever rest the hands need to complete the final 4?

Dealing with BB bench presses, I am having a hard time finding a good groove. I have seen a lot of different opinions on hand placement and where the bar should meet the chest. A couple questions.

  1. Before getting an Olympic weight set and powercage I was benching on an old Bowflex PowerPro. I believe part of my problem may be that the groove for the freeweight version is different. What is the best way to overcome this muscle “memory” and find the right groove?

  2. I noticed while benching yesterday that the bar was floating a little. By that I mean that I was not consistently hitting the chest at the same spot with each rep. How does one find their own individual “sweet” spot as to where the bar should contact their chest?

  3. I have seen suggestions to bring the bar down low (almost to the stomach) and suggestions to bring the bar up higher on the chest. Are there certain people that do better benching low, and certain that do better benching high? I would think that the lower position would activate the triceps more and the higher position would activate the pecs more. Maybe I am way off, but it seems logical a person that carries more muscle in the torso would be stronger benching high, and a person that is stronger in the arms would benefit from benching low. Does this at all make any sense?

I appreciate any feedback.

2

It’s a long post, but I’ve got some free time. So here goes:

[quote]BigDaddyT wrote:

  1. I notice that these two exercises not only cause the muscles worked to get tired (as other exercises) but also the entire body to get tired. At times I actually feel a little queazy after some reps on these exercise, and actually feel a slight tension headache. It quickly subsides, but I was wondering if there are any ways to help one overcome this effect?
    [/quote]
    There are a couple reasons for what you are feeling. One, usually when people squat and deadlift they hold their breath and fill their abdominal cavity to “push” and stay tight. Second (and mainly) these two lifts are very taxing on the CNS (Central Nervous System), thus the queasy feeling and the drained feeling you have afterward. Also why you probably couldn’t go out and do the same exact thing a day or two later. You can’t really prevent it other than get stronger, but if you continue to go up in weight, you will continue to feel this way. Embrace it.

A lot of this depends on what kind of lifting you are doing. For instance, I powerlift. Last night was my max effort day so I worked up to heavy singles of deep saftey bar squats. Then I did “speed” singles of deadlifts with lighter weight and bands. In other words, I’d never follow heavy squats with heavy pulls (remember CNS). Many PL’rs will only pull heavy every 3-4 weeks. Instead they’ll use box squats, good mornings, RDL’s etc. So, mix it up. If you pull heavy, go light on squat and vice versa. Also, don’t be afraid to look to other lifts like Good Mornings, Box Squat, RDL, SL dead, GHR, etc.

Not entirely on the heels, but you definitely want to keep your hips down as long as you can. When I get tired my hips shoot up and my dead becomes a stiff leg dead instead. Go to elitefts for help on this (and all you other ?'s as well.)

This depends on your body style and pulling style. You want the bar close for sure, but too much contact builds friction, slowing the pull and limiting the weight you can do. I rarely make contact below the knees. Yes, you want the head up for the most part.

When it gets heavy for me, I use the “hook grip” where you wrap the index finger over the thumb to lock it in. I also never go over 5 reps unless warming up, and even 5 is rare. I mostly pull doubles and singles, form is very important. If I want some conditioning I’ll pull singles and reset each one, taking 10-15 sec between.

All these kind of go together. High benching (closer to the neck) is more chest dominant and lower benching (toward the belly) is tricep dominant. If you are going for pure strength, then the powerlifting style (tricep dominant) is best. It invloves keeping the elbows tight to the body, maintaining a tight arch in the back (some arches are higher than others)and getting close to the sternum on the touch. If you find the bar floating then your body is not tight enough. when a good bencher gets set to lift, you can’t move them on the bench. Their feet are anchord/dug in to the ground and their whole back from butt to neck is coiled tight. You have to learn to do this. Interestingly enough, once you learn this you may automatically add 20-30 lbs to your bench.

Hope this helps. Keep in mind, I’m a long time lifter, but not quite 2 yrs. in to the PL game. Elitefts has lots of great articles, which I read all the time. I also have found a great group of guys that do this, and they have helped me as well. Good luck.

3

[quote]roofus_5 wrote:

All these kind of go together. High benching (closer to the neck) is more chest dominant and lower benching (toward the belly) is tricep dominant. If you are going for pure strength, then the powerlifting style (tricep dominant) is best. It invloves keeping the elbows tight to the body, maintaining a tight arch in the back (some arches are higher than others)and getting close to the sternum on the touch. If you find the bar floating then your body is not tight enough. when a good bencher gets set to lift, you can’t move them on the bench. Their feet are anchord/dug in to the ground and their whole back from butt to neck is coiled tight. You have to learn to do this. Interestingly enough, once you learn this you may automatically add 20-30 lbs to your bench.

[/quote]

Holy crap is he right on this one.

My bench use to suck, my shoulders hurt, my form was awful and I would have happy feet during the lift.

Ever since I switched to the style of bench described above I love to bench. My shoulders feel great throughout the lift and I actually feel strong when benching now.

Not to mention that my benching numbers have increased dramatically.

4

Deadlift:
Ideally, the path of the bar should be as close to the body as possible. That way you can produce greater force. When I deadlift I always scratch my legs, from shins to quads. Dont lean forward when you deadlift, use your weight to pull. So push from the heel, keep you toes on the floor though.

I would do sumo and conventional on different days, two days apart or do conventional during one cycle and then change to sumo during another cycle. Deadlift is very heavy on central nervous system.

Bench:
When you are on the bench. Arch your back as much as possible. To help arch your back bring your legs closer to your head. Keep your glutes and hamstrings on the bench, bring your scapulas together, but dont shrug, push them down to your legs. Why you are arching your back? You can bench much more weight when you are on the decline because there is less load on your shoulders. Therefore, arching your back simulates the decline bench. When you take the bar off the stands, you will feel that your upper body is locked (the bar is not gunna move forward or backwards), you will feel that most of the load is on your upper back. When I bench, I find that it is easier to bring the bar down, closer to the end of the chest (dont know how to say in a different way). I also find that bringing the bar down to the end of the chest keeps your elbows tucked in.

Squat:
Try to cut down on volume to get rid of that feeling.

5

Getting a lot of good feedback. I am experimenting with how to get myself set and tight for the bench. I quess I don’t have the feeling for it yet, but will work up to it. The thought of adding 20-30 pounds would be exciting. I have a chest day tomorrow, so I will have to play around with it.

Since I got this thread started, I might as well get all the feedback I can. Dealing with squats. I noticed that when I hit a good groove my knees actually flare outward. Maybe this is not the best explanation, but I do know what people mean when they say to spread the floor. When I do that I naturely fall into a deep squat. I was wondering if one spreads the floor on the way down, then is part of the upward push on the squat due to contracting the legs back together? If so, does one have to consciously think about this, or is it automatic?

I was wondering about also about foot position when deadlifting for both the regular and sumo deadlift. How far apart should the feet be, and what angle should the feet be?

6

It’s good that your knees naturally spread apart on your squat, but it’s important to maintain that feeling as you are moving the weight up. Many people will buckle one or both their knees on the way up. So keep that in mind that as you drive the weight up, push the knees out.

As far as stance for deadlift goes, again it depends on your body and your strengths. Conventional should be about shoulder width, but may be a little less or a little more depending on what works best. I flare my toes out a little bit. Sumo should be as wide as you can while still being strong. Generally ultra wide squatters or pullers using a squat suit benifit most from this position. If you use sumo your toes will be out as much as 45 degrees.

I agree with above, be very careful regarding volume. Find what works best for you.

I also can’t stress enough how much reading articles on elitefts has helped me. I print them off in stacks to read when I have free time. Those guys over there have spent a lot of time experimenting, injuring, and putting together great lifts. Dave Tate has some great articles on this site as well that can help.

7

[quote]roofus_5 wrote:
It’s good that your knees naturally spread apart on your squat, but it’s important to maintain that feeling as you are moving the weight up. Many people will buckle one or both their knees on the way up. So keep that in mind that as you drive the weight up, push the knees out.

As far as stance for deadlift goes, again it depends on your body and your strengths. Conventional should be about shoulder width, but may be a little less or a little more depending on what works best. I flare my toes out a little bit. Sumo should be as wide as you can while still being strong. Generally ultra wide squatters or pullers using a squat suit benifit most from this position. If you use sumo your toes will be out as much as 45 degrees.

I agree with above, be very careful regarding volume. Find what works best for you.

I also can’t stress enough how much reading articles on elitefts has helped me. I print them off in stacks to read when I have free time. Those guys over there have spent a lot of time experimenting, injuring, and putting together great lifts. Dave Tate has some great articles on this site as well that can help.[/quote]

What he said! Hehe, and yeah subscribe to Elite FTS newsletter. Great source for free. Also read some articles on Westside Barbell’s site.

8

I agree with the suggestion of checking out www.elitefts.com. Specifically, all the stuff posted here from dave tate(which can be found at http://www.elitefts.com/articles/T-Mag-Articles/default.asp)is extremely helpful in regards to learning proper form.

Also if you have some extra cash check out a few of their dvds… I have only heard good things about them and will be putting an order in for a few within the next couple of weeks(gotta love tax returns).

9

yeah, the essentials that I think everyone will agree with are: www.elitefts.com, this site obviously, www.defrancotraining.com, www.westside-barbell.com… there is more information between these four sites then you will know what to do with…

Also the ask joe section on defrancos page is great and being bored at work has led me to reading through all the archives… along with the Q and A section on elitefts.com which is another great area… you can keep yourself busy for months with these sites.

10

I think one of the hard things I am finding from watching videos and reading articles is that I really do not understand what the person is talking about until I actually “feel” it for myself. A good example is spreading the floor with the squat. I had no idea what that meant until one workout it just sort of happened, and I knew what was meant. Subjectively I would not have described it the same way.

I was experimenting with getting tight today benching. Subjectively it felt almost as if I was lifting myself slightly upon my scapulas. I also tried to get a tight arch in the lower back and get the buttocks and feet firmly planted. My back felt similar to the feeling of a wrestler’s neck bridge (not the same amount of arch, but a similar feeling of tightness). When I did this I felt more stable (at least for a few reps) and the bar naturely fell at the bottom of my sternum. It hit my chest almost exactly where that little piece of cartlidge is at the bottom of the sternum. Am I at least on the right track?

11

[quote]BigDaddyT wrote:

When I did this I felt more stable (at least for a few reps) and the bar naturely fell at the bottom of my sternum. It hit my chest almost exactly where that little piece of cartlidge is at the bottom of the sternum. Am I at least on the right track? [/quote]

Sounds right.

12

Yep, sounds like you’ve got the bench in the right direction. You also may feel some cramping in your lower back. The first time I did that I asked the guys if I was doing it wrong, and they said no, that’s pretty much it.

I’d say the next step for you is to try to locate some PL’rs in your area, even for just a workout or two to help you out.

13

Making sure you’re well fed and hydrated will make you less fatigued in general with squats whatnot. I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong.

I too had difficulty with muscle memory and the flat barbell bench press. If you pause at the bottom when the bar is in contact with your chest you’ll build some helpful muscle memory by having to press the barbell up after 1 or 2 seconds since you wont have any sort of bounce or momentum or anything working for you.

Doing partial Range of Motion reps in a power rack in bench where you perform an incomplete range of motion and start pressing off the power rack supports can get you comfortable with heavy weights so when you bench normally you’ll feel more in control with the lighter weight you’ll use.