I’ll shoot you an email, bud.
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
I’ve had this damn window open waiting to have time to reply for like almost a week now.[/quote] That shows real dedication to a lost cause, I applaud you.
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
I’ll shoot you an email, bud.[/quote]
Gotcha.
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
I want to make sure I understand this correctly… so you know he has done many different exercises at varying rep ranges and with different types of form. Yet you still talk like the only way he built his impressive back (not being sarcastic, it is a great back) is by doing heavy cheat BB rows?[/quote]
You wish to understand? Admirable.
→ Bugs backthickness (read that, thickness, not width… I think it was in a back double-bi or something like that -shot) was the first thing that I noticed way back when I saw some of his pictures and we first started talking.
The BB rows are, to us anyway, primarily a thickness exercise… And he was using some major weight on those already. The torso motion is not a terribly important aspect to consider if your goal with a row is to improve your backthickness and strength of the muscles which retract the shoulder blades. Actual cheat rows look a lot worse. The idea is to actually stress the backthickness musculature, and that is perfectly possible even with some torso motion.
For backwidth, real flaring lats and teres, the stretch and semi-stretch are the most important things/parts of the rep… And you cannot achieve a great stretch during any regular row as your arms don’t come into overhead position. Hence us using rack chins, Droop rows (sometimes), Pullups, Pulldown variants, etc for backwidth, and most regular rows as well as rack pulls/deads with scap retraction after every lockout as thickness exercises.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
I want to make sure I understand this correctly… so you know he has done many different exercises at varying rep ranges and with different types of form. Yet you still talk like the only way he built his impressive back (not being sarcastic, it is a great back) is by doing heavy cheat BB rows?[/quote]
You wish to understand? Admirable.
→ Bugs backthickness (read that, thickness, not width… I think it was in a back double-bi or something like that -shot) was the first thing that I noticed way back when I saw some of his pictures and we first started talking.
The BB rows are, to us anyway, primarily a thickness exercise… And he was using some major weight on those already. The torso motion is not a terribly important aspect to consider if your goal with a row is to improve your backthickness and strength of the muscles which retract the shoulder blades. Actual cheat rows look a lot worse. The idea is to actually stress the backthickness musculature, and that is perfectly possible even with some torso motion.
For backwidth, real flaring lats and teres, the stretch and semi-stretch are the most important things/parts of the rep… And you cannot achieve a great stretch during any regular row as your arms don’t come into overhead position. Hence us using rack chins, Droop rows (sometimes), Pullups, Pulldown variants, etc for backwidth, and most regular rows as well as rack pulls/deads with scap retraction after every lockout as thickness exercises.
[/quote]
‘TDub301 - The Education of a Bodybuilder’ by Cephalic_Carnage
You have the patience of a saint, C_C.
But its wasted effort. Save your breath for the 2010 crowd, they’re but a few weeks away — and they’ll invade the BB forum armed to their narrow clavicles with irrelevant information from the beginner’s threads.
Sorry for hijack, but I really want CC to reply to my post in his training thread 
[quote]OatsNMilk wrote:
Sorry for hijack, but I really want CC to reply to my post in his training thread :D[/quote]
I thought I could hide from you guys here… Damnit 
[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
You have the patience of a saint, C_C.
But its wasted effort. Save your breath for the 2010 crowd, they’re but a few weeks away — and they’ll invade the BB forum armed to their narrow clavicles [/quote] HAHAHAHA! That’s almost Seanbaby -level there. [quote] with irrelevant information from the beginner’s threads.[/quote]
Soo… bottom line, what should someone who stumbles on this thread take away from it?
I want a bodybuilder back and I don’t care how I get it; I’m not attached to any particular way of rowing or any excercise… I just want some decent coaching.
I’ve been doing BB rows really bent over, nearly straight legged so I could get a stretch, intending to hit lats (which it does), but I’d been thinking about upping the weight and increasing my angle and calling it a different exercise and doing it on the same day, because I was noticing that it really hits a lot of different muscles, higher up in the back when you do it that way. Like upper back BB rows vs. lat BB rows.
But I’m seeing a lot of you guys do back movements with what I’d call cheating and english, but if that’s what works then more power to you and maybe I should do that too.
I’ve been seeing a bodybulding coach and he says I need lot more lat width and some more trap thickness to match my front, and that I have “tall traps but they’re not very thick”, whatever that means. But I can’t work out with him as much as I’d like so I have to still coach myself some too.
Props to OP on moving that big weight… when I use that much weight it doesn’t do anything but hang there lol.
[quote]nschneid wrote:
Soo… bottom line, what should someone who stumbles on this thread take away from it?
I want a bodybuilder back and I don’t care how I get it; I’m not attached to any particular way of rowing or any excercise… I just want some decent coaching.
I’ve been doing BB rows really bent over, nearly straight legged so I could get a stretch, intending to hit lats (which it does), but I’d been thinking about upping the weight and increasing my angle and calling it a different exercise and doing it on the same day, because I was noticing that it really hits a lot of different muscles, higher up in the back when you do it that way. Like upper back BB rows vs. lat BB rows.
But I’m seeing a lot of you guys do back movements with what I’d call cheating and english, but if that’s what works then more power to you and maybe I should do that too.
I’ve been seeing a bodybulding coach and he says I need lot more lat width and some more trap thickness to match my front, and that I have “tall traps but they’re not very thick”, whatever that means. But I can’t work out with him as much as I’d like so I have to still coach myself some too.
Props to OP on moving that big weight… when I use that much weight it doesn’t do anything but hang there lol.[/quote]
Just try different rows and see how they work for you. It all depends on how you feel your back is working during the exercise and what you’ve gained from it.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
It seems like YOUR feelings are hurt, champ. If anyone is talking before they know, it’s you. You have no info on me at all to know how much experience I have or how big my back is, yet you go off like you have something to prove. Do you have something to prove big man? If not, then calm down and stop taking shit so personal if someone disagrees with you.[/quote]
Your posts give it all away… I don’t need to be a psychic to figure out your experience level. You focus entirely on the aesthetic aspect of a lift and miss most of the important stuff completely. If you want to bring up your training age, by any chance, that says very little. There are people on here who have been training for 10-20 years and are still stuck in the beginner stage.
As for hurt feelings and taking it personal, well, you’re the one responding to a bunch of old posts, aren’t you?
[/quote]
Hey, I already explained why it took so long to respond, I had some shit to take care of then I got to it when I had time. Telling someone you don’t know that they’re a beginner simply because they don’t agree with you is a personal attack, isn’t it? I never labeled you at all, in fact, I believe I gave you credit for being a vet in the weight room.
[quote]bugeishaAD wrote:
Damn! Gettin spicy in here.
I don’t wanna get in the middle of the little shindig going on here on page 5, but I wanted to say a couple things:
-
CC helped me really restructure my how I thought about and approached my training last fall, and I’ve been progressing all the more because of it.
-
I trained back today, and did underhand barbell rows. Since I created this video (before this thread was made), I had been working on getting more of a bent over position as I want to engage more lat than it looked like I was doing. I watched the back training portion of Blood and Guts right before heading out and was in a really good zone, and I nailed 335 for 6 sexy reps, plus one ugly one.
Now, my back is destroyed.
All I’m saying is that I’ve learned from the video and from some of the comments in this thread and hopefully my back training will improve because of it! (Btw, realllly controlling the negatives on BB rows makes them even more brutal)[/quote]
Then mission accomplished. Congratulations, makes all the insignificant arguing all the more less insignificant
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
[quote]TDub301 wrote:
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Funny as it is, I just ran across one of your SAMA posts on swingers. Indeed, you know nothing about the subject (at least you admit that much), yet feel somehow compelled to make comments as if you did.
A few more of those and we have us a pattern.
[/quote]
This comment shows how little you actually read. I admitted that I didn’t personally know any swingers. I didn’t admit to not knowing anything about swingers. 2 different things.[/quote]
That makes… What kind of difference? If you don’t know any swingers, that means you haven’t done it yourself, either… Which leaves what kind of reliable sources of information for you to have acquired your possible knowledge on the subject from? Documentaries? Internet Articles?
You are just using semantics/nitpicking so you can write your arbitrary rebuttal. Nothing you said really changes anything.
[/quote]
Further shows you didn’t read, you had to, at best give that comment a quick glance. We were talking about a few different topics at that time, I could go into detail, but I don’t think anyone cares about that. In a nutshell, you mainly just took something unrelated out of context to try and tell me I never know what I’m talking about. That’s a lowblow
Doing barbell rows this way gives me great muscle mind connection but stick with whatever gives you the best results.
Ah i do it like him from 1:00 to 1:05 but with way more torso motion on my working sets lol
Now, now C_C. It’s fun to see you a little angry and all, but we’ve all grown accustomed to you answering all our little questions now, you know? Can’t have you wasting your time arguing with the trolls 
Oh, and T-bar rows FTW. Fuckers.
As a followup to this thread, I made this video a few weeks ago of a weekend of training with my friend.
EDIT: Skip to 1:30 for the BB rows. It’s like 9 minutes of training and not terribly exciting.
As you can see I’m doing the rows underhand now, but I think they’re a bit smoother and better. I wasn’t feeling 100% healthy that day so I stopped my heavy set early bc I felt form was falling apart, but it doesn’t look too too bad from what I can see.
Thank you for educating me, forum.
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Doing barbell rows this way gives me great muscle mind connection but stick with whatever gives you the best results.[/quote]
win
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Doing barbell rows this way gives me great muscle mind connection but stick with whatever gives you the best results.[/quote]
it struck me as funny that he appears to be wearing a sun dress and a pair of tights. (i know it’s an oversized jersey) but my first impression was- sun dress.
very sassy.